Is this season a write-off already?

[Van der MoodHoover]

2 hours ago, McLovin said:

Rowett’s a smart man, as much as I didn’t like his football. It has to be asked why he jumped ship? Could he foresaw a season of struggle? I think that’s a possibility and he jumped before Mel made him jump had we started off poorly.

I beg to differ.  I believe him to be intellectually limited, greedy, and full of self regard. 

Time will tell I suppose as to which of us is more accurate ?

[Ninos]

Sadly I agree with @Bris Vegas. Bryson is a good player but he now gets hurt a lot, ala GT. Butterfield and Martin are utter tripe while Blackman Anya and Lawrence have proven next to nothing. Add the failures of Forsyth, the mediocrity of johnson Ledley and Jerome and the demise of GT and all we got left is Vydra, a decent wisdom decent keeper, a decent but slow Hudds, and 2 aging centre backs plus the hopes of youth - Thomas Bogle and Elsnik - all of whom have been consistently overlooked by every recent Derby manager so who’s to say Lampard will do any different.

The battle for promotion looks to be between Forest Leeds and Stoke ... lamps will give all a chance so we will prob again see the likes of Butterfield Martin Fozzy Lawrence Johnson Jerome (flatters to deceive) and Martin play key roles. These are players whove failed but who we can’t move because no one wants them.

Barring a Lampard miracle which would have to include a Grealish type impact for the under appreciated Luke Thomas, and an injection of skill from Elsnik, we are in some serious trouble. 

[rynny]

Just now, Ninos said:

Sadly I agree with @Bris Vegas. Bryson is a good player but he now gets hurt a lot, ala GT. Butterfield and Martin are utter tripe while Blackman Anya and Lawrence have proven next to nothing. Add the failures of Forsyth, the mediocrity of johnson Ledley and Jerome and the demise of GT and all we got left is Vydra, a decent wisdom decent keeper, a decent but slow Hudds, and 2 aging centre backs plus the hopes of youth - Thomas Bogle and Elsnik - all of whom have been consistently overlooked by every recent Derby manager so who’s to say Lampard will do any different.

The battle for promotion looks to be between Forest Leeds and Stoke ... lamps will give all a chance so we will prob again see the likes of Butterfield Martin Fozzy Lawrence Johnson Jerome (flatters to deceive) and Martin play key roles. These are players whove failed but who we can’t move because no one wants them.

Barring a Lampard miracle which would have to include a Grealish type impact for the under appreciated Luke Thomas, and an injection of skill from Elsnik, we are in some serious trouble. 

 

[Bris Vegas]

4 hours ago, EnigmaRam said:

Utter rubbish.

We’ve already made a step forward in getting rid of Shackell, Baird, Weimann and bent and having Thomas, bogle, Lowe and Bennett step into the fold. 

That alone reduces wages by nearly £4 mil, we’ve raised around £6 mil and reduced the average age of the squad by several years. 

How is that not a step forward and we haven’t even bought anyway. 

 

We’ve gotten rid of three players - Baird, Bent and Shackle - who weren’t considered for the first-team last season. It would have been madness to keep them once their contracts expired.

Selling Weimann. I agree he’s not good enough, but selling him leaves us very short on players capable of playing in wide areas.

And I think you’re in dreamland if you think Lowe or Bennett are going to have an impact. The latter especially is League Two level.

Thomas and Bogle ars highly-rated. But are they ready? Or are they just going to be the next Lee Holmes or Calum Ball? Derby rarely produce youngsters good enough for Championship level. Probably only around five or six in the last 20 years. And you’re pinning your hopes on four all at once?

We’ve made a positive step towards lowering the wage bill.

But of our current squad, who do you envisage will still be here in three or four years time when we’re finally ready to challenge for promotion? 

The likes of Forsyth, Keogh, Martin, Bryson and Hudds are going to be 33, 34 or 35 then.

Without budging players, we can’t sign young players. This time next year we lose half of the rubbish squad and have to start phase 1 of the rebuild.

So mu question is - what exactly is the purpose of this season? To establish a new brand of football? But even then, who does that benefit if nobody from our current squad is going to be here challenging for promotion in four years time...?

At least by selling Vydra, we can buy a few players who can kickstart the Lampard rebuild. But if we can’t sell him, we’re stuck...

[Andicis]

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Selling Weimann. I agree he’s not good enough, but selling him leaves us very short on players capable of playing in wide areas.

We've not signed anyone yet. If you were patient, we might sign a winger. 

 

7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

And I think you’re in dreamland if you think Lowe or Bennett are going to have an impact. The latter especially is League Two level.

Based from what on Bennett? 

 

7 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

But of our current squad, who do you envisage will still be here in three or four years time when we’re finally ready to challenge for promotion? 

Because we won't change our squad at all in 4 years? Odd comment. 

8 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

So mu question is - what exactly is the purpose of this season? To establish a new brand of football? But even then, who does that benefit if nobody from our current squad is going to be here challenging for promotion in four years time...?

What is the purpose in any season? To do the best you possibly can and try compete to finish as well as possible? You've written us off without us making any signings or seeing us play a single minute of football. 

[Sexydadbod]

58 minutes ago, HantsRam said:

I beg to differ.  I believe him to be intellectually limited, greedy, and full of self regard. 

Time will tell I suppose as to which of us is more accurate ?

Yh time will tell. Things must not be too good behind the scenes though if Rowett felt the need to leave. 

[Sexydadbod]

2 hours ago, Inglorius said:

Are you insinuating that Rowett saw something that Lampard didn't or that Lampard wasnt told the full situation when he accepted the job role?

I’d be surprised if he wasn’t told the full situation. Maybe Lampard has faith in his abilities and perhaps overestimated the squad before he came in? On paper in terms of names we have a decent squad but the reality is that a lot of them are past their best. I won’t hold it against Lampard personally if it doesn’t work out though as the squad needs a lot of change in my opinion, which Lampard will be unable to do short term.

[rynny]

15 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Yh time will tell. Things must not be too good behind the scenes though if Rowett felt the need to leave. 

Rowett left for one reason and one reason only

 

[Sexydadbod]

On 12/07/2018 at 15:40, Alpha said:

I'm no way saying it will happen but is it not possible that another manager will get more out this team than Rowett did? 

Are we 100% certain Rowett got the very best out of the squad in every game? Because if we think he did then yes, the season is probably a write off.

You’re probably right but it could also go the other way too but that’s the natural risk when appointing a rookie and why there is excitement around Lampard as anything can happen.

We still need signings though in my opinion. Lampard and Morris aren’t miracle workers. No amount of training is going to make Johnson improve a lot on the ball at this stage of his career or make Wisdom cross the ball like Trippier. I feel a bit sorry for Lampard to be honest if he can’t spend as much as he would like. We are still feeling the effects of Clement’s spending.

[Inglorius]

11 minutes ago, Andicis said:

We've not signed anyone yet. If you were patient, we might sign a winger. 

 

Based from what on Bennett? 

 

Because we won't change our squad at all in 4 years? Odd comment. 

What is the purpose in any season? To do the best you possibly can and try compete to finish as well as possible? You've written us off without us making any signings or seeing us play a single minute of football. 

It's a fair point made that Lampard needs to start phasing a transition but is utterly pointless to try and start that transition using players whom patently will not be here in a years time when their contracts run down. We need to start bringing new blood in to facilitate this step change but can't do this until aforementioned high earning deadwood are cleared from our books which Lampard can't influence. 

Why then start building something new when you don't even have the basic building blocks in place?

[Andicis]

Just now, Inglorius said:

It's a fair point made that Lampard needs to start phasing a transition but is utterly pointless to try and start that transition using players whom patently will not be here in a years time when their contracts run down. We need to start bringing new blood in to facilitate this step change but can't do this until aforementioned high earning deadwood are cleared from our books which Lampard can't influence. 

Why then start building something new when you don't even have the basic building blocks in place?

So we should sit on our hands for a year? Of course not. You influence the changes that you can make, and make do with the things that cannot be changed. You do what you can, sign players where you can and wait out the players you can't get rid of. Our squad doesn't need that much adding to it to be a competitive squad for next season, it's not already a given that we can't achieve anything.

[Inglorius]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

So we should sit on our hands for a year? Of course not. You influence the changes that you can make, and make do with the things that cannot be changed. You do what you can, sign players where you can and wait out the players you can't get rid of. Our squad doesn't need that much adding to it to be a competitive squad for next season, it's not already a given that we can't achieve anything.

Our squad is bloated and totally imbalanced, it actually needs major surgery to trim it down before we start adding anything to it.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Inglorius said:

Our squad is bloated and totally imbalanced, it actually needs major surgery to trim it down before we start adding anything to it.

I agree with it being imbalanced, but I think we can add plenty to it without major issues, we could do with loaning out or selling a few more, but it's not hugely bloated, certainly room for improvement though.

[Comrade 86]

Yeah, season's over before a ball's been kicked in anger.

Manager's failed to identify and secure players within an acceptable time frame.

You win nothing with rookies.

Lampard out.

Boo!

[Ninos]

53 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Yeah, season's over before a ball's been kicked in anger.

Manager's failed to identify and secure players within an acceptable time frame.

You win nothing with rookies.

Lampard out.

Boo!

Sarcasm begets truth. Forest are doing what Wolves did. Leeds are building a new team under a world renowned manager then you’ve got us. Idling.  Stoke are stoke. If Lampard turns us into an Eddie Howe side part deux and can reverse our fortunes with the very same toolset that Rowett had, then he’ll be the best manager in the UK. If he’s anything less than genius/superlative we are up the creek with this squad of perennial underachievers and flops. Pre season optimism just isn’t there for many of us, unlike pretty much every recent pre season. Lampard and Jody will be hard pressed to be Liverpool of the championship with this crop. 

[maydrakin]

If any manager can’t fashion a decent team to challenge for the playoffs then they are unfit to manage.

We have 25 players at least that should be more than capable of performing at this level.

Whilst they are a disparate group cobbled together by numerous managers with varying styles, there is more than enough capability to cobble together a first XI that can play whatever style a manager requires.

The trick is to be able to add to the squad that complement such a style and offload those that are surplus to requirements.

As for the season being a write off... behave yourself.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, Ninos said:

Sarcasm begets truth. Forest are doing what Wolves did. Leeds are building a new team under a world renowned manager then you’ve got us. Idling.  Stoke are stoke. If Lampard turns us into an Eddie Howe side part deux and can reverse our fortunes with the very same toolset that Rowett had, then he’ll be the best manager in the UK. If he’s anything less than genius/superlative we are up the creek with this squad of perennial underachievers and flops. Pre season optimism just isn’t there for many of us, unlike pretty much every recent pre season. Lampard and Jody will be hard pressed to be Liverpool of the championship with this crop. 

For the sake of clarity, I've highlighted the bits I think are utter tosh.

[RamNut]

we have a financial problem to solve in addition to a footballing conundrum.

The footballing conundrum ultimately demands that we decide on a formation and a style pretty quickly. Prolonged chopping and changing won't rebuild confidences. 

For me....bogle is too young, not ready....therefore wisdom has to play right back. The limited number of centre backs and left backs  might just preclude 352 /532 as a sustainable formation at the moment. But whichever system we play the best balance seems to include one holding mid and two more attacking central players. Therefore we have room for bryson and vydra in the advanced roles with elsnik and one other in reserve. Select from butterfield, johnson and vernam for cover. Two out of three could go or be loaned out. Huddlestone or thorne for the holding role? Ledley could posibly go if we revert from two to one holding midfielder. Guy in reserve. 

Decide where we are playing Lawrence - if at all. Choose between playing him as a central second striker, central attacking mid or wide. Wide might be his worst position but the one we might need him to play. Thomas and bennett will get opportunities. Anya could be available. 

We've got too many strikers. Decide whether we are playing one or two. Select from jerome, martin, blackman, and nugent. One or two could be available.

so....we could afford to sell three or four players and still have a decent squad before we even think about new signings. For me the mission has to be to introduce the u23s before bringing in yet more. 

If we lost say @£14m and £8m with regards to ffp in the last two years, then the max loss this season is @£17m. That would mean we have to raise @£6m from sales assuming wages have reduced a bit. The financial problem would presumably be satisfied if we sold three or four for £6m. The rumours about having to negotiate our way out of a transfer embargo might suggest that for some reason the financial problem is worse than stated above, but at this moment in time, this is the best info we have.

if we can't shift the fringe players then there could be one or two painful sales, but nothing catastrophic. We might even be tempted to sell Lawrence to the snakeman.

COYR!

 

 

[Carnero]

8 hours ago, Ninos said:

The battle for promotion looks to be between Forest Leeds and Stoke ...

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

we have a financial problem to solve in addition to a footballing conundrum.

The footballing conundrum ultimately demands that we decide on a formation and a style pretty quickly. Prolonged chopping and changing won't rebuild confidences. 

For me....bogle is too young, not ready....therefore wisdom has to play right back. The limited number of centre backs and left backs  might just preclude 352 /532 as a sustainable formation at the moment. But whichever system we play the best balance seems to include one holding mid and two more attacking central players. Therefore we have room for bryson and vydra in the advanced roles with elsnik and one other in reserve. Select from butterfield, johnson and vernam for cover. Two out of three could go or be loaned out. Huddlestone or thorne for the holding role? Ledley could posibly go if we revert from two to one holding midfielder. Guy in reserve. 

Decide where we are playing Lawrence - if at all. Choose between playing him as a central second striker, central attacking mid or wide. Wide might be his worst position but the one we might need him to play. Thomas and bennett will get opportunities. Anya could be available. 

We've got too many strikers. Decide whether we are playing one or two. Select from jerome, martin, blackman, and nugent. One or two could be available.

so....we could afford to sell three or four players and still have a decent squad before we even think about new signings. For me the mission has to be to introduce the u23s before bringing in yet more. 

If we lost say @£14m and £8m with regards to ffp in the last two years, then the max loss this season is @£17m. That would mean we have to raise @£6m from sales assuming wages have reduced a bit. The financial problem would presumably be satisfied if we sold three or four for £6m. The rumours about having to negotiate our way out of a transfer embargo might suggest that for some reason the financial problem is worse than stated above, but at this moment in time, this is the best info we have.

if we can't shift the fringe players then there could be one or two painful sales, but nothing catastrophic. We might even be tempted to sell Lawrence to the snakeman.

COYR!

Haven't you overlooked the compensation from Rowett, transfer fee from Weimann and wages saved by releasing Baird, Bent and Shackell?