Promoting young players

[TheHomunculusLives]

Fellow Rams

With our recent poor performances and the gradual receding of our promotion hopes, there has been an increasingly strong call to start blooding more young players from the under-23s: especially next season if we are - as seems likely - still in the Championship and unwilling/unable to make significant further investment in an already expensively assembled squad.

I think there is a common, rose-tinted view among football fans that young, homegrown players are automatically deemed/willed to be good due to being...well, young and homegrown.

My question is, how many of our under-23s are actually good enough to become regular, effective Championship players?

Bennett and Hanson have been around the squad for years and neither has ever come close to establishing themselves.

Mitchell was highly touted but is now behind Roos in the first team picture.

Lowe is persistently injured and can't get into a League One side.

Zanzala is on the bench for a League Two team and getting no game time.  

Elsnick and Gordon are both currently on the bench for a League Two team.

Vernam is injured but has done little of note in any loan spells so far.

A lot of these players are now 20-22: the sort of ages where they should have broken into our first team picture by now if they are going to make it.

To me the only young player who has proved he might have a future is Callum Guy who is clearly a very capable performer at League One level.

It's too early to judge with the younger group such as Bogle, Thomas and Bird but at present, I think we're getting precious little return from our much vaunted academy!

TPH

[ollycutts1982]

33 minutes ago, TheHomunculusLives said:

Fellow Rams

With our recent poor performances and the gradual receding of our promotion hopes, there has been an increasingly strong call to start blooding more young players from the under-23s: especially next season if we are - as seems likely - still in the Championship and unwilling/unable to make significant further investment in an already expensively assembled squad.

I think there is a common, rose-tinted view among football fans that young, homegrown players are automatically deemed/willed to be good due to being...well, young and homegrown.

My question is, how many of our under-23s are actually good enough to become regular, effective Championship players?

Bennett and Hanson have been around the squad for years and neither has ever come close to establishing themselves.

Mitchell was highly touted but is now behind Roos in the first team picture.

Lowe is persistently injured and can't get into a League One side.

Zanzala is on the bench for a League Two team and getting no game time.  

Elsnick and Gordon are both currently on the bench for a League Two team.

Vernam is injured but has done little of note in any loan spells so far.

A lot of these players are now 20-22: the sort of ages where they should have broken into our first team picture by now if they are going to make it.

To me the only young player who has proved he might have a future is Callum Guy who is clearly a very capable performer at League One level.

It's too early to judge with the younger group such as Bogle, Thomas and Bird but at present, I think we're getting precious little return from our much vaunted academy!

TPH

I think with Elsnik he was playing regularly under Flitcroft, since then he has had and injury and they have changed to a manager who favours two solid, defensive minded players. If you look on the forum Swindon fans rave about Elsnik. I for one am looking forward to see if he can kick on.

[RIMBAUD]

The fella in front of Lowe looks quite a decent player. I think he made the team of the year. So I would write him off just yet.

He could do with a injury free run. He can’t be worse than Forsyth has been this season.

[Jack Willow]

Almost none.

Eventually Max Lowe could become a Championship level player from what I've seen, if he wouldn't be injured most of the time.

[RoyMac5]

Isn't Gordon also injured atm, dislocated shoulder?

[Van der MoodHoover]

12 minutes ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I think with Elsnik he was playing regularly under Flitcroft, since then he has had and injury and they have changed to a manager who favours two solid, defensive minded players. If you look on the forum Swindon fans rave about Elsnik. I for one am looking forward to see if he can kick on.

Nobody told me Gary Rowett had left! 

[archied]

Boyle and Thomas look decent prospects from the admittedly little ive seen 

[B4ev6is]

Max bird impressed me away to barnsley away in the cup.

[cannable]

If we’re reigning things in next season then Lowe and Elsnik make the side, Thomas and Bennett to be third and fourth choice wide-man. 

Hanson covers four positions so makes the squad. 

May flourish, some may falter, if it’s a rebuild it shouldn’t really see us in any danger. 

It’s a bit like 11/12 when Hendrick, Ball and O’Brien all made considerable game time. We were never really in danger, the latter two had a chance but never quite made it and we found out Jeff was quite good

[Zag zig]

Elsnik has barely played any amount of football, that’s why he went on loan. Lowe needs luck with injuries, way too early to write him off though. As for too early to judge Bogle, Thomas and Bird maybe, but when Hughes and Hendrick burst on the scene, both only played a relatively small number of games before they got a first team chance.

I’d say there are 4 or 5 with a chance and that’s excluding Guy you half give a chance to. But yeah, let’s write off the academy kids, despite the fact they have held their own, playing in the highest league possible and against largely Premier league club prospects of the same age group.

Give them a few games even if as subs or cup games, then let’s see first.

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, ollycutts1982 said:

I think with Elsnik he was playing regularly under Flitcroft, since then he has had and injury and they have changed to a manager who favours two solid, defensive minded players. If you look on the forum Swindon fans rave about Elsnik. I for one am looking forward to see if he can kick on.

The bit in bold has to be a worry? Elsnik looks a player, as does Thomas, but neither fit into the current system. Guy has the best chance. 

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, Zag zig said:

Give them a few games even if as subs or cup games, then let’s see first.

We can't Rowetts loaned them all out. They could have played if only he hadn't bought all those old stagers that he preferred. 

[Millenniumram]

The academy recently has been an interesting one. I personally don’t think wassall is the right man to be in charge of the academy, I know a lot will disagree with me here, but looking at his time in charge of the first team he doesn’t strike me as having the greatest knowledge of tactics, and it seems to me he might just be still there because he’s a friend of mels. We’ve spent a lot on our academy, including On recruitment, and we’re not getting the results we’re expecting. I know a lot of people are saying that we’re just not giving them a chance, but they need to win that chance by proving themselves, and a lot aren’t doing that while out on loan, so it’s concerning why they aren’t developing enough to succeed outside the club when we send them out. That’s not to say that’s the only reason why they’re not getting chances tbf, I do agree there needs to be a clearer link to the first team, and I think that comes from communication between the respective coaches and training youngsters in a philosophy to make the step up smoother. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done structurally on how the academy functions Imo, because we’re not getting the quality players out of it yet.

Thats not to say however that there are no players that can now/ have the potential to step up. Personally think Thomas is ready for the first team now no problems, I do just worry people might lose patience if he makes some wrong decisions however, that’s always common in young wingers. I’d say bogle looks to be of a standard to be valuable to the squad as well, he seems to read the game pretty well which Id good for young defender. Obviously elsnik has great technically ability so I’d like to see what he can do too. Guy has always looked to have ability as well.

Sadly beyond that I can little who can make the step up right now. There’s a few more with potential, like bird who will definately make it Imo, arguably the best player in the academy, just needs physical development really to go along with his passing ability. Others like walker have a good chance if he develops his all round game, could maybe be an impact player now as well.

So clearly it’s not all bad, but can’t help wondering why some of our last gen u23s like zanala etc failes to fulfil their potential. Think we need a review of the academy process to make sure this doesn’t happen again to our current players with potential.

[Ghost of Clough]

Wasn’t Vernam playing really well for Grimsby before his injury?

[EnigmaRam]

Who knows if you don't play them. Nobody expects to suddenly have seven under twenty three players in the first team every game. Put one in and have one or two on the bench.

 

[Rampant]

I'd have Elsnik and Lowe in the matchday 18 now if both were here. Possibly Guy too for his energy alone. Plus Thomas obviously.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

We can't Rowetts loaned them all out. They could have played if only he hadn't bought all those old stagers that he preferred. 

You must be making good progress through all the Rogets thesaurus entries for "not youthful " by now Roy!  

[Will Hughes Hair]

Am I missing the point? Are people readily writing off youth players because of where they have been loaned to? If so that's nonsense. Anyone like to guess Harry Kane's first loan?

[BramcoteRam84]

Elsnik and Guy become first team squad players because they’ve gone into tough brutal leagues and done well. The boys will hopefully have become men. Lowe was already a first teamer but been injured. 

Thomas looks good, there is also the young lad McAllister who mcclaren signed, if he can stay injury free he could come into it. That’s not even mentioning Hanson and Bennett for whom next season has to be last chance saloon (but it also took Sturridge and Carsley time to establish themselves at Derby) 

That’s 6 academy products in the squad next season. Bogle could be a 7th. If 2 of them really come off, could make a huge difference to the team 

[clarkeram7]

There was a time Harry Kane couldn't get in the Leyton Orient's side. Just because they aren't in the side, don't get ahead of yourself and assume they aren't good enough. Lowe when fit has already proven he could hack it at this level, Elsnik and Gordon were both in the Swindon side before Phil Brown took over, Zanzala will naturally find it hard to break into a side who are top of the league and performing well. Guy as we know is getting rave reviews! Bennett I'm convinced has the quality but his fitness is embarrassing and he obviously isn't preparing well enough.