Mea Culpa, I was wrong.

[RodleyRam]

Before we all lose our fragile little minds, let's get some kind of perspective.

At the start of the season all but the most unrealistic would have taken 5th with 10 to go. From the position we were in it is disappointing to miss out on auto but top 2 would have been an extraordinary achievement for this squad.

I don't think anyone can claim to be inspired by the football we've played but at times it's been incisive and fast paced. We have played decent stuff at times with a smattering of great goals.

Mostly we've defended very well.

I think Rowett has a lot to learn but you don't get to 2nd in the league on good fortune so he has ability.

There are things that I don't like. I have been disappointed at the predominant style of play, the lack of creativity in the transfer market and I still think getting rid of genuine footballing quality is a mistake. I like footballers who get the ball down and play. Rowett favours athleticism and percentages, personally I think that style of play has a shelf life, good football has longevity, particularly in a higher league. There's more than one way to skin a cat, I hope we can find a more dominant style of play.

However, he's young and I would hope intelligent enough to learn from decisions and poor form.

My biggest concern is the lack of 'future' in the current squad. Regardless of promotion we are going to need an overhaul within the next two years due to the age profile of the squad. For me that's easier to do with a premier league budget.

Despite the run I would still be expecting a play off finish and then it's anyone's game. Even if we don't I think replacing Rowett would be a questionable and retrograde step.

He's not my favourite manager but we've got to give him a proper run. For me that's two full seasons unless we are flirting with relegation at Christmas. Criticism of him at this stage is over the top.

Right now we are 5th! A return to form will see us reach the play offs. We need positivity and support not panic and blame.

[jono]

32 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Mac1 wasn't on the next level...it was several levels above what we are witnessing now.

In fact this is reminiscent of the end of pearsons tenure with us...chaos.

This isn't sustainable.

Really ? Several levels above ? And Mac 1 on a good day versus ROwett on a bad one ? . Is that a logical comparison. What about Mac on a bad day ? .. What was that like ? I'll tell you .. Grim .. Martin falling over, sideways passing, Keogh in a panic. No quality DM and that team was toothless and headless.  ... (I now await details of the contract that will be put out on me for daring to say that ) 

Oh yes, and Why are we more or less in the same league position  then ? I wonder what the goals per game stats is Mac V Rowett .. Not a great deal of difference I reckon. 

Really though, rant apart, With both teams in form I would be happy watching either of them without a particular favourite. 

Its pooh after yesterday I agree, but by and large we are getting beaten by errors rather than consistently out played over 90 mins. 

Not buying into this crisis / change manager / hindsight / if only / we shouldn't have done xyz it was obvious / good old days blah blah.

the only unsustainability relates to how much money Mel is prepared to spend on his championship football team hobby. I am guessing it's circa 20 million a year at the current rate. You'll have to ask him whether that is sustainable. Meanwhile I am going to support our team and its manager who are still in the upper reaches of the table during a poor run of form 

[europia]

1 hour ago, Pearl Ram said:

Could you point out the posts where fans have actually posted “We’re struggling and I’m relishing/enjoying/getting pleasure/am happy about it” because I have missed them.

I doubt there is one member of this board enjoying seeing us go from second in the table to three points clear of sixth, and my money’s on Boro reducing that even further before too long.

By your logic, to be a “proper” Derby County fan as opposed to a “so called” one, you must have no opinions, believe the guff you are fed by the manager without question and be happy with sluggish performances.

Well, put me, an old fart who saw us lift two championships down as a so called fan then because the man who lead us to the first of those titles would be mortified by the football we’re producing of late and, in my opinion, anyone who defends it or the manager is defending the indefensible.

 

It's an interesting problem if, as some suggest, suggest Rowett is indeed failing. One thing about Mel's maverick approach is that we have experienced quite a broad spectrum in different styles of management. So I wonder what type of manager those who have lost faith in GR, would like to see at the helm, if he were to leave? Of course many will say 'the one who gets us promoted', but I expect we all know it's not that simple. 

[superzak]

we could always give Darren another try. He knows the under 23s and knows who is ready and he really did not do such a bad job last time or promote him to  G.Rs number 2 .

[eddie]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

I rarely agree with you old timer but this is spot on.. Despite our differences, I know you were/are a big Derby fan who's been there and got the t-shirt. How sad is this really. You are not alone, I could count the amount of missed games in seasons past, on one hand. Now, it's easier to count the games I go to and I am getting really picky there. 

We used to agree on a lot. Then Brexit got in the way and split the country in half - regretfully, probably for ever.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, RodleyRam said:

Before we all lose our fragile little minds, let's get some kind of perspective.

At the start of the season all but the most unrealistic would have taken 5th with 10 to go. From the position we were in it is disappointing to miss out on auto but top 2 would have been an extraordinary achievement for this squad.

I don't think anyone can claim to be inspired by the football we've played but at times it's been incisive and fast paced. We have played decent stuff at times with a smattering of great goals.

Mostly we've defended very well.

I think Rowett has a lot to learn but you don't get to 2nd in the league on good fortune so he has ability.

There are things that I don't like. I have been disappointed at the predominant style of play, the lack of creativity in the transfer market and I still think getting rid of genuine footballing quality is a mistake. I like footballers who get the ball down and play. Rowett favours athleticism and percentages, personally I think that style of play has a shelf life, good football has longevity, particularly in a higher league. There's more than one way to skin a cat, I hope we can find a more dominant style of play.

However, he's young and I would hope intelligent enough to learn from decisions and poor form.

My biggest concern is the lack of 'future' in the current squad. Regardless of promotion we are going to need an overhaul within the next two years due to the age profile of the squad. For me that's easier to do with a premier league budget.

Despite the run I would still be expecting a play off finish and then it's anyone's game. Even if we don't I think replacing Rowett would be a questionable and retrograde step.

He's not my favourite manager but we've got to give him a proper run. For me that's two full seasons unless we are flirting with relegation at Christmas. Criticism of him at this stage is over the top.

Right now we are 5th! A return to form will see us reach the play offs. We need positivity and support not panic and blame.

Pretty much word for word how I see the situation (apart from I’m probably not as patient as 2 years!), good post.

[angieram]

10 minutes ago, superzak said:

we could always give Darren another try. He knows the under 23s and knows who is ready and he really did not do such a bad job last time or promote him to  G.Rs number 2 .

I could never see Darren as Rowett's number 2. The under 23s play free-flowing passing football and look to get forward at every opportunity. They let goals in as a consequence but score plenty and I love watching them.

I do think Wassall is learning a few tricks from Rowett though as when they are under the cosh they play that long out-ball for Lewis Walker to chase and hold up till the others get there to support him. He's pretty good at it but of course wouldn't yet be risked at first team level.

[Mafiabob]

9 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I was wrong about Rowett. I really believed he would do as he talked. I was looking forward to seeing a tight knit squad with some young hungry talented players fighting for promotion.

I no longer believe all the guff that came out of Rowetts mouth. He sounded great, gonna play different ways depending on the opposition, want young hungry players, etc etc

I realised he's ALL talk. That is why he has to go, not that he's got rid of Hughes, Ince, Martin and Bryson.

I was wrong to believe him.  

2 thread starters in a day...... tad desperate my sweet pea.....

[Pearl Ram]

49 minutes ago, europia said:

It's an interesting problem if, as some suggest, suggest Rowett is indeed failing. One thing about Mel's maverick approach is that we have experienced quite a broad spectrum in different styles of management. So I wonder what type of manager those who have lost faith in GR, would like to see at the helm, if he were to leave? Of course many will say 'the one who gets us promoted', but I expect we all know it's not that simple. 

Indeed, it isn’t that simple unfortunately. 

I do wonder if Rowett’s style could be less predictable it may buy him more (or even some) patience from those of us disenchanted with him, it seems to me opposition managers don’t have to do much homework to outwit him in the tactics department. 

Take the Leeds game a couple of weeks ago, I was knocked out by our approach to that game, I was like, where did that come from ? Ok, another draw but I saw intent. Alas, it appears to have been a flash in the pan and normal service has resumed.

Some may point out he doesn’t have the players at his disposal to chop and change styles and formations to outwit his opposite number but who’s fault is that ? He’s been here near on a full year and two transfer windows now.

So, to answer the question, the type of manager I’d like is one who recognises when his style has been rumbled, has the tactical nous to try a different approach, is flexible and doesn’t insist on a my way or the highway attitude.

*Thank you for your courteous reply to my post, it was quite unexpected when I saw someone had quoted me. 

[1967Ram]

5 hours ago, Waffle said:

Wasn’t Rowett told he had time and promotion wasn’t the aim in the first season? 

Is that why he's investing in youth and adapting the formation to the different styles of play being used by the opposition?

[RamNut]

10 hours ago, eddie said:

I just find it so difficult to raise any sort of enthusiasm now, to the point that I have only gone half a dozen times this season and not once since the turn of the new year. I let my season ticket lapse at the end of last season (my first one was in 1966), but I had every intention of starting to go again once I (and the missus) turned 65.

Well, we have now both passed that magic number - but even the attraction of cheaper tickets can't shake me out of my torpor. Perhaps I will feel different when the weather is warmer - but at the moment the only thing I am looking forward to is the start of the cricket season.

I can't even raise a "Rowett out" - I just don't care any more.

 

Why? What turns you off?

p.s. On the one hand we are 5th, there is still plenty to play for, and we are just as likely to beat Forest as we are to lose to them.

on the other hand......errrrgh......i have been thinking of not renewing, and wondering what else i could do with the time and money.

 

[EssendonRam]

20 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

Could you point out the posts where fans have actually posted “We’re struggling and I’m relishing/enjoying/getting pleasure/am happy about it” because I have missed them.

I doubt there is one member of this board enjoying seeing us go from second in the table to three points clear of sixth, and my money’s on Boro reducing that even further before too long.

By your logic, to be a “proper” Derby County fan as opposed to a “so called” one, you must have no opinions, believe the guff you are fed by the manager without question and be happy with sluggish performances.

Well, put me, an old fart who saw us lift two championships down as a so called fan then because the man who lead us to the first of those titles would be mortified by the football we’re producing of late and, in my opinion, anyone who defends it or the manager is defending the indefensible.

 

Look at the tone of the OP for starters.

If that’s not relishing the current situation, one of us has no idea what “relish” means.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, EssendonRam said:

Look at the tone of the OP for starters.

If that’s not relishing the current situation, one of us has no idea what “relish” means.

Well you're in a pickle then. I'm not at all happy that Rowett hasn't been as good as his word, which I felt that would be a good way for Derby to be and to lay a good foundation for our future.

[Pearl Ram]

2 hours ago, EssendonRam said:

Look at the tone of the OP for starters.

If that’s not relishing the current situation, one of us has no idea what “relish” means.

So, if I take the OP as relishing our struggle (and I don’t think he is) it would appear one of us has no idea of the difference between singular and plural. 

Unless of course you can provide conclusive evidence of any other member of the forum “relishing” the current situation.

Further, I hardly think you are one to bleat about another member’s tone, pots and kettles spring to mind. 

[Angry Ram]

18 hours ago, RamNut said:

Why? What turns you off?

p.s. On the one hand we are 5th, there is still plenty to play for, and we are just as likely to beat Forest as we are to lose to them.

on the other hand......errrrgh......i have been thinking of not renewing, and wondering what else i could do with the time and money.

 

Can't speak for Eddie but, football is fast becoming a turn off. It's the boredom of the whole thing nowadays. The plastic  matchday experience, the ***** football (not just us, everyone). It;'s druggery.

Maybe it's my age, I've pretty much seen everything in football bar a world cup final. I think my time has just finished.

I saw @David posted about Pride Park and that's where his menories are and it got me thinking, maybe it is just a younger mans thing now. Nothing wrong with that, football has moved on from my memories, that's life. The acceptance by just about eveeryone that clubs like us will never win anything again, lets just plod along. The Premier League and the hype the alomst erasing of any sport of football history pre SKY TV. If the yoof accept that as the norm now, then this old git has moved in another direction. I rarely watch any football now on TV..  

@eddie mentioned cricket and I have to agree again. i am guessing he is a traditionalist on that front with the 5 days game but i love short over cricket and that is fast becoming more attractive than 90 mins of boredom. Shopping with the wife is fast becoming more attractive (not the wife, she is not attractive) 

Maybe I will get over it and it's just a phase. 

[Pearl Ram]

1 minute ago, DC-1975 said:

@Red_Dawn  ?

 ? ? excellent, that made me laugh and is a good point, well made.

I took it for granted evidence of Derby County fans relishing the current situation would be provided as that is what the other poster is whinging about.

*Note to self - take nothing for granted on this forum, there’s some sharp as razors buggars about.

[Pearl Ram]

13 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Can't speak for Eddie but, football is fast becoming a turn off. It's the boredom of the whole thing nowadays. The plastic  matchday experience, the ***** football (not just us, everyone). It;'s druggery.

Maybe it's my age, I've pretty much seen everything in football bar a world cup final. I think my time has just finished.

I saw @David posted about Pride Park and that's where his menories are and it got me thinking, maybe it is just a younger mans thing now. Nothing wrong with that, football has moved on from my memories, that's life. The acceptance by just about eveeryone that clubs like us will never win anything again, lets just plod along. The Premier League and the hype the alomst erasing of any sport of football history pre SKY TV. If the yoof accept that as the norm now, then this old git has moved in another direction. I rarely watch any football now on TV..  

@eddie mentioned cricket and I have to agree again. i am guessing he is a traditionalist on that front with the 5 days game but i love short over cricket and that is fast becoming more attractive than 90 mins of boredom. Shopping with the wife is fast becoming more attractive (not the wife, she is not attractive) 

Maybe I will get over it and it's just a phase. 

 Good grief, maybe that’s where I am Angry. I no longer watch MOTD or Goals on Sunday which would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago, just can’t be arsed with them anymore.

What if things ain’t that bad and I’ve turned into a grumpy old man...there’s only one thing for it...

                              

 

[1967Ram]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Can't speak for Eddie but, football is fast becoming a turn off. It's the boredom of the whole thing nowadays. The plastic  matchday experience, the ***** football (not just us, everyone). It;'s druggery.

Maybe it's my age, I've pretty much seen everything in football bar a world cup final. I think my time has just finished.

I saw @David posted about Pride Park and that's where his menories are and it got me thinking, maybe it is just a younger mans thing now. Nothing wrong with that, football has moved on from my memories, that's life. The acceptance by just about eveeryone that clubs like us will never win anything again, lets just plod along. The Premier League and the hype the alomst erasing of any sport of football history pre SKY TV. If the yoof accept that as the norm now, then this old git has moved in another direction. I rarely watch any football now on TV..  

@eddie mentioned cricket and I have to agree again. i am guessing he is a traditionalist on that front with the 5 days game but i love short over cricket and that is fast becoming more attractive than 90 mins of boredom. Shopping with the wife is fast becoming more attractive (not the wife, she is not attractive) 

Maybe I will get over it and it's just a phase. 

I know what you mean Angry Ram. Mind you, based on recent history, Mel will make things interesting for us again soon if GR doesn't turn things around soon.

[EssendonRam]

12 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well you're in a pickle then. I'm not at all happy that Rowett hasn't been as good as his word, which I felt that would be a good way for Derby to be and to lay a good foundation for our future.

You just don't know when to stop, do you @RoyMac5? Now you're suggesting that Rowett has broken his word? Which particular word was that? We both know that he didn't promise automatic promotion, or even a playoff place. Only a fool would set that as his pass mark for his first season, given the issues he inherited.

But those issues, including the possibility that we're uncomfortably close to FFP, are just a smokescreen in your view, aren't they? As if the prospect of breaching FFP wasn't any a greater issue than any other things the club might want a smokescreen to cover up.

You were, however, gloating in the OP because you believe that our recent underperformance - and slide from second to fifth - gave some credence to your over-the-top criticisms of Rowett. It doesn't. It just means that you're gloating at Rowett's position looking less certain (hopefully only on a superficial level); ergo, you're gloating at our drop off in performance which has caused it.

11 hours ago, Pearl Ram said:

So, if I take the OP as relishing our struggle (and I don’t think he is) it would appear one of us has no idea of the difference between singular and plural. 

Unless of course you can provide conclusive evidence of any other member of the forum “relishing” the current situation.

Further, I hardly think you are one to bleat about another member’s tone, pots and kettles spring to mind. 

I was going to simply ignore your rather rude and intemperate response @Pearl Ram but neither turning the other cheek nor patience have ever been my strongest character traits.

Pray tell, in regard to which word do you believe I confused the singular and the plural? I assume that I must've referred to "so-called Derby County fans". Without for a moment conceding that there might not be other posts that might fit the bill, did it not occur to you that there might be another reason not to use the singular? To avoid singling any one individual out for the criticism for instance?

Now that we've established that your suggestion that one of us has no idea of the difference between the singular and the plural is utterly devoid of foundation, let's turn our attention to which words of mine caused you to reference the proverbial pot and the proverbial kettle?

I'd suggest the only reason you've taken so much offence to an innocent - and wry - remark is because you believe that I questioned Roy's loyalty to Derby? In my view, you can only draw that conclusion if you dismiss the relish with which he sought to use our current travails to burnish his rather strident (and often contradictory) criticisms of Gary Rowett.

None of us are enjoying the present situation.

Some of us have tried to be open-minded about the degree of difficulty of the task Rowett inherited.

And some of us only have a very limited timeframe in which we'll be able to remember Derby's permanent return to the Premiership...so we may well feel more keenly than most how wasteful the last four seasons have been.

 

[Pearl Ram]

To avoid singling any one individual out for the criticism eh ?...apart from @RoyMac5  ? 

I think we’re done here.