Derby County V Notts Forest

[DRBee]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Failure to pass to a man in white is nothing to do with the manager. At all. This is basics that is expected from the players.

It’s not chess, Rowett doesn’t pick each player up and position them on the pitch.

 

If enough players are not in forward positions there are limited options to pass forwards. How many times yesterday did we lose possession when the ball was hoofed forwards? Rowett does position the players with the tactics he chooses.Why does Huddlestone rarely move outside a limited area? He's been given a job to do by the manager.Your comparison with chess is deliberately misleading, nobody's saying every movement is controlled by the manager.

[Day]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

I agree .

Typical example was near the end when Lawrence chose to shoot when Martin was better paced to score. 

This is Football.

I'd say that's more decision making than general sloppiness that I was getting at. Don't get me wrong, I won't boo at the first misplaced pass, giving the ball away happens but we was doing it time and time again, simple balls going astray. Even if the game plan isn't to retain possession and go nowhere, you need to string at least 2 passes together to launch a attack.

First half was very frustrating. (After the first minute)

1 minute ago, curtains said:

David who did sign Vydra and sell Hendrick ! 

Off topic!

[Curtains]

Just now, Steve How Hard? said:

A mad man that didn't know how to use Vydra him properly. Thankfully he's no longer associated with our club. 

Oh so Rowett is tactically aware then ! 

[Steve How Hard?]

Just now, curtains said:

Oh so Rowett is tactically aware then ! 

Where Vydra is concerned, yes. His performances are testament to that. 

[Day]

Just now, DRBee said:

If enough players are not in forward positions there are limited options to pass forwards. How many times yesterday did we lose possession when the ball was hoofed forwards? Rowett does position the players with the tactics he chooses.Why does Huddlestone rarely move outside a limited area? He's been given a job to do by the manager.Your comparison with chess is deliberately misleading, nobody's saying every movement is controlled by the manager.

Why are the players not in forward positions, did you hear Rowett shout deeper, deeper from the touchline, everybody behind Carson?

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, David said:

I'd say that's more decision making than general sloppiness that I was getting at. Don't get me wrong, I won't boo at the first misplaced pass, giving the ball away happens but we was doing it time and time again, simple balls going astray. Even if the game plan isn't to retain possession and go nowhere, you need to string at least 2 passes together to launch a attack.

First half was very frustrating. (After the first minute)

Off topic!

Who was the most guilty of misplaced passes 1st half  Forsyth or Keogh and I’m not getting at either because it’s the in the heat of a local Derby  

I am  delighted with yesterday and with Cardiff away .

Two clean sheets. 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Where Vydra is concerned, yes. His performances are testament to that. 

So just where Vydra is concerned.

How good was Davies yesterday and at Cardiff I’d say very good .

Clean sheets are always good. 

[Steve How Hard?]

Just now, curtains said:

So just where Vydra is concerned.

How good was Davies yesterday and at Cardiff I’d say very good .

Clean sheets are always good. 

Not sure where you're going with this. I answered your first question and added I was glad to see the back of him. Why bring Rowett into it? Of course he hasn't got everything tactically right, hence our patchy start to the season. There are signs we are moving in the right direction. Out of interest, going back to your original question, are you not glad to see the back of the Mental One? 

[Day]

7 minutes ago, curtains said:

Who was the most guilty of misplaced passes 1st half  Forsyth or Keogh and I’m not getting at either because it’s the in the heat of a local Derby  

I am  delighted with yesterday and with Cardiff away .

Two clean sheets. 

As you say, local Derby and that so I'm over the moon we won, not really wanting to pick out individuals to moan out. Forsyth, Keogh, Russell, Lawrence all guilty offenders. Think I might be the only one that Ledley didn't overly impress either but as I say, this is all that matters 

 

[Wolfie20]

32 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

But he does tell them where to be positioned surely....that's the managers job and the passing under rowett has looked like this from day one.

You really believe he tells them where to be positioned? General play yes but throughout the match - never! These are professional footballers and if they haven't got the nouse to move into space to receive a pass then they should be looking for another job. 

Our passing in the first half was poor - lack of composure leading to bad decisions. 

Some posters on here will use any excuse to have a bash at the players and now the manager and will come out with the most ridiculous statements to try and justify their dislike. 

[sage]

10 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I enjoyed the game, but it wasn't exactly one for the purist. I actually thought our fitness was shocking in comparison to their team. Mobility aside, they seemed to cover more ground than us and were able to find space. We just seemed static and that caused a number of issues in itself. 

That being said, Forest are a really poor side. They can pass it around and look busy as much as they lack, but fundamentally I doubt we will come across many weaker sides this season. It's all about numbers for them; possession stats and shots. The amount of actually 'good' chances they worked came to one - McKay. Saying that, I thought he showed himself up in that opportunity because any half decent footballer would have buried it. He played himself into a rabbit hole and allowed Carson a chance to save it. 

I think today showed that we probably won't be troubling the top six this season & Forest could well be relegated come May. 

Excellent point. Nugent, Russell and Vydra looked knackered after 30 minutes add the lack of mobility in CM and Lawremce struggling against Lichaj we couldn't get out of our half for long stretches of the first half.  .

Maybe in the end we paced ourselves better.  

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, David said:

As you say, local Derby and that so I'm over the moon we won, not really wanting to pick out individuals to moan out. Forsyth, Keogh, Russell, Lawrence all guilty offenders. Think I might be the only one that Ledley didn't overly impress either but as I say, this is all that matters 

 

Ledley does the simple things well and finds Rams players  more often than not. 

Depends what you want in a midfielder.

Johnson was missed for his break up play yesterday but some don’t like him  .

GREAT to beat The Red Dogs  ha ha  

 

 

 

[AdamRam]

28 minutes ago, David said:

It's a forum Curtains, discussions take place, this isn't a sit down and listen whilst I talk. 

I'm not always right.

This time I am though.

Players get off so easy time and time again, blame the manager. Chess was a poor example when Subbuteo was there to be had. 

Forget Rowett, Derby, this applies to any manager, club and players. Football is a dynamic game, not a static let the manager flick a player into position.

Basics such as passing falls on the players, 100% without question.

Tactical decisions such as moving Russell over to the left as Lichaj was getting forward more than Traore, Lawrence wasn't tracking back as well. Now had that been left untouched, Rowett's fault 100%. 

For you to put your right answers it all really, maybe because you play subbuteo you use this example however it’s nothing like actual football, you will be using FIFA or CM next ?

My own views are only based upon playing with a real ball and actual players, albeit at a pretty poor level, and in my experience it was easier to pass to players when they were in your line of vision and not behind or at the side of you.  This was always more difficult when 8 teammates were in a defensive formation which left you with 1 option only that had three players around them....but hey ho what do I know....

 

[Curtains]

25 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said:

Not sure where you're going with this. I answered your first question and added I was glad to see the back of him. Why bring Rowett into it? Of course he hasn't got everything tactically right, hence our patchy start to the season. There are signs we are moving in the right direction. Out of interest, going back to your original question, are you not glad to see the back of the Mental One? 

Very harsh to be honest .

Something needed to change at the Rams and Mel thought Pearson could do what he did at Leicester here at Derby but for one reason or another it didn’t work out. 

I think Vydra was a good signing by Pearson but for a time it didn’t look that way. 

Football is a funny old game said old Jimmy Greaves 

 

[Carnero]

In the East Midlands derby both Derby County and Nottingham Forest fans have their own happy place, a recent game they can recall and smile. Forest have Ben Osborn’s last-minute goal at Pride Park in 2015; for Derby it is the 5-0 win a season earlier. This particular edition was not quite that good for the Rams but it will do for now. Derby beat Forest on Sunday with goals from Matej Vydra and David Nugent, and this was a game in which statistics told bigger lies than the most dishonest of conmen.

Forest had 57% of possession, had more shots, more shots on target and completed more passes. But ask anyone who witnessed the game which team controlled it and there will be only one sensible answer. This was a lesson in the perils of sterile domination; Forest passed the ball around for 90 minutes while Derby helped themselves to two goals and three points.

There are basically two ways to combat a team who try to pass out from the back, as Forest do: either press high and pressure them into mistakes or sit back, let them knock the ball around as much as they please, then pick them off. Derby tried option two with a dash of option one and it worked a treat. Their manager, Gary Rowett, noted after the game that Forest often pass the ball well but do not hurt their opponents in the final third of the pitch. That was certainly the case here.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2017/oct/16/derby-county-nottingham-forest-david-nugent

[Day]

7 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

For you to put your right answers it all really, maybe because you play subbuteo you use this example however it’s nothing like actual football, you will be using FIFA or CM next ?

And that's my point, it isn't like football, there is no man stood over the pitch controlling each player as is being suggested by yourself.

Quote

My own views are only based upon playing with a real ball and actual players, albeit at a pretty poor level, and in my experience it was easier to pass to players when they were in your line of vision and not behind or at the side of you.  This was always more difficult when 8 teammates were in a defensive formation which left you with 1 option only that had three players around them....but hey ho what do I know....

Now I'm confused as that is exactly where I'am coming from, actual players moving around the pitch, moving the ball from A to B which they appeared to have great difficulty with.

Options were there but the ball wasn't played accurately, that's how we kept giving Forest the ball back, as a result we found ourselves on the back foot. Every goal kick, throw in can reset the pitch but again, we failed to play an accurate pass and back we went on the defence. 

Players fault, 100%. Absolute minimal basics from a very young age, practiced against brick walls and greenhouse windows.

Second half we improved when they took their Scottish miniature footballer off, we became more confident, more accurate with our balls. Do we credit Rowett for that, or the players for getting a grip?

Maybe the occasion got to them, maybe the early goal surprised ourselves even though Rowett said the game plan was to put pressure on them from the start.

Either way, those 11 men that cross the line need to start being accountable on the pitch, you can't blame everything on the manager.....even if you dislike him. 

[sage]

1 hour ago, David said:

Failure to pass to a man in white is nothing to do with the manager. At all. This is basics that is expected from the players.

It’s not chess, Rowett doesn’t pick each player up and position them on the pitch.

 

I am going to take the plunge and almost agree with Curtains.

@David your argument is over simplistic. Whilst players are responsible for a pass in isolation of other factors, a manager's decisions clearly have an impact on how successful at passing an individual or a team is.

Leaving aside the emphasis placed on passing in training, you have to have someone to pass to. Therefore a manager's transfer selections, match day selections, formations and tactics have a massive impact on passing success.

I heard Jordan Henderson's passing range for England described as sideways, backwards and Hollywood. It reminded me of Derby passing out from the back or midfield. Perhaps a lack of passing ability but certainly not helped by not having players available for progressive but realistic passes.   

[Steve How Hard?]

8 minutes ago, curtains said:

Very harsh to be honest .

Something needed to change at the Rams and Mel thought Pearson could do what he did at Leicester here at Derby but for one reason or another it didn’t work out. 

I think Vydra was a good signing by Pearson but for a time it didn’t look that way. 

Football is a funny old game said old Jimmy Greaves 

Would rather not get into a debate about Pearson. Onwards and upwards I say. Vydra is a technically very good player who when used correctly is proven at this level so in that respect, he is a good signing. I'm not a fan of Rowetts footballing philosophy but if it's successful then that's all that matters at the end of the day. We have in Vydra, Lawrence and Martin 3 players that can do things that will at least get us out of our seats on occassions. Every team needs to start with a solid base. I'm hoping that once Rowett instills that into the team then we might start showing a bit more attacking intent. Rather have a team that can win ugly than a team that doesn't win at all. 

[S8TY]

Forest are not a bad side as some suggest on here ...they are also in a transition stage from a team that nearly got relegated last season and you can see what direction playing style that they are going in.

i like Warburton and like the way his teams try to play football in fact (and this will no doubt send some on here into meltdown) he was probably a better choice of manager for us than GR at the time based purely on the fact we had a team who liked to keep the ball... he really got Brentford playing some great stuff at PP against us for example.

Yesterday was a fantastic day and result but  I'll  be honest and say  I don't like some of our football at times and we need to look after the ball better...It makes me really nervous watching us give up possession too easily then rely on our defensive shape to win it back ...saying that the last 30 mins was much better aided by McKay going off which was a strange decision ...CM looked very good when he came on and Nugents movement and finish was class... that grin from Nugent would've really wound up the dogs just as much when he was playing against us and seemed to always score ..great stuff and great support yesterday ...let's keep it going ??

[Tricky1884]

Forest remind me of how Derby were under Nigel Clough. Nice passing, a lot of the ball and when everything goes right I bet it looks nice and they win. But  when Derby played like that and it didn't go to plan we'd lose or get a draw many times from lending the game at the start. In a ideal world we'd all play good football but it's not an ideal world.