Is Rowett up to the job

[Mistaram]

4 minutes ago, swiftur said:

He has already said ,  any player can leave if his transfer valuation of them is met by another club.Surely they realise he wants rid of most of them.

We have to stick with GR and let him build his own side,only time will tell if he is up to the job.

Agree with every word but you know what our fans are like Every defeat is a catastrophe Mel sees and hears it and to often reacts Rowett is the man for the job at the moment he's probably having to pick half a dozen players he doesn't want to It will not change over night the money's gone but if given time I'm confident he will get it right 

[duncanjwitham]

16 minutes ago, maxjam said:

We can't shift players that haven't performed for several seasons.  Several managers have tried to get them playing better and failed.  We're we really expecting GR to do any better?  Until we move players on and GR has a squad he can call his own it is unfair to judge.  

But at no point over those seasons, have we actually played those under-performing players in the right position/system to actually get the best out of them. 

How many games have Weimann or Vydra started as part of a front 2, off a target man?

How many games has Johnson started with license to roam in the final third, and a mobile striker creating space for him?

How many games has Blackman started wide-right with license to cut in on his strong foot?

How many games has Martin started (in the last 2 and a bit seasons) with runners close to him?

And so on and so on. Our transfer policy has been horrific over the last few seasons, signings players seemingly at random with no idea how or when they were going to be used, with no overall identity or recognizable style of play. It's no surprise that players have struggled - it's not that they're bad players, they've just all been horribly mis-used. And it's not going to be an easy fix, because half the time we don't have the other pieces that make those players tick (we have no target man, or strong mobile forwards, no midfielder runners bar a half-fit Bryson and so on).

Somebody needs to sit down and say "from now on, we are going to be X" (whatever X is), and all the signings, managerial appointments, youth developments and so on should be following this.  This is what Morris's 'Derby Way' was supposed to be all about, but he appears to have set about systematically making sure it never ever happened from the moment he first uttered that name.

For me, I really don't want us to spend 2 seasons building the sort of dour, defensive team that Rowett built at Burton and Birmingham.  And nothing I've seen of Rowett so far suggests he has any idea of what identity we should have either.  And if he wants to just shift all of these players out, rather than try and get the best out of them, then who's to say the next lot he brings in will be used any better? He certainly hasn't improved the squad with his signings so far.

[Turnstile]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

But at no point over those seasons, have we actually played those under-performing players in the right position/system to actually get the best out of them. 

How many games have Weimann or Vydra started as part of a front 2, off a target man?

How many games has Johnson started with license to roam in the final third, and a mobile striker creating space for him?

How many games has Blackman started wide-right with license to cut in on his strong foot?

How many games has Martin started (in the last 2 and a bit seasons) with runners close to him?

And so on and so on. Our transfer policy has been horrific over the last few seasons, signings players seemingly at random with no idea how or when they were going to be used, with no overall identity or recognizable style of play. It's no surprise that players have struggled - it's not that they're bad players, they've just all been horribly mis-used. And it's not going to be an easy fix, because half the time we don't have the other pieces that make those players tick (we have no target man, or strong mobile forwards, no midfielder runners bar a half-fit Bryson and so on).

Somebody needs to sit down and say "from now on, we are going to be X" (whatever X is), and all the signings, managerial appointments, youth developments and so on should be following this.  This is what Morris's 'Derby Way' was supposed to be all about, but he appears to have set about systematically making sure it never ever happened from the moment he first uttered that name.

For me, I really don't want us to spend 2 seasons building the sort of dour, defensive team that Rowett built at Burton and Birmingham.  And nothing I've seen of Rowett so far suggests he has any idea of what identity we should have either.  And if he wants to just shift all of these players out, rather than try and get the best out of them, then who's to say the next lot he brings in will be used any better? He certainly hasn't improved the squad with his signings so far.

Apart from wisdom who is class at this level and hopefully Lawrence.

[Ellafella]

20 minutes ago, David said:

Not trying to enlighten you as I struggle to enlighten myself at the best of times, but say Rowett says no, I'm not happy at all we need to shift half of this squad out and bring in another 5/6 players. FFP restrictions, other clubs blowing us out the water on targets and unable to move players on, when the window shuts Rowett has to work with that squad that's probably thinking f*** him. 

Nigel Pearson will tell you what happens when this squad says f*** him.

The fact he's refused to rule out further signings and admitted they are still looking says he's not 100% happy with the squad, 2 new players in a team can change things massively. Having missed out on Gallagher and Toral already he's probably watching his words so not to upset the current set of players as they are the ones that can send him back to the Job Centre.

 

Just say " we are always looking to improve things...football is about continuous improvement...so we are never happy with our squad". Quote Goethe "man is challenged to become the very best that he can be". 

The corollary of what you say David is that certain players may hear what GR says and just rests on their laurels in time for an embarrassment of a performance at S2.

The best managers always leave their players guessing. Martin O'neil on Brian Clough "quite often we just didn't get along...but that never stopped me from wanting to run through brick walls for him on a Saturday afternoon."

 

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, swiftur said:

Apart from wisdom who is class at this level and hopefully Lawrence.

I haven't seen anything of Lawrence yet, so can't comment.  But Rowett has moaned several times about players smashing crosses out of play, and the prime candidate for that so far has been Wisdom. Every single person at the club must have known that Wisdom is pretty rubbish going forwards, so why sign him if you want your fullbacks whipping crosses in? In fact, why get rid of Christie?  And it's not that Wisdom is a bad player, but don't sign him knowing that he's a poor crosser and then moan about his crossing.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

39 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

Even if we are bottom of the league at Christmas?

Mate,I'm not liking the football anymore than anyone else but five games really isn't enough time.....the squad is still in turmoil from so many managerial changes that it's going to take time to sort itself out......I don't see us being bottom of the league but I don't see us flying this season either.

I would have much preferred Mac's to have continued into this season with s chance to build the team back up...along the way we would have had some exciting footy but that's not to be so we need to stick,not twist (again).

I'm hoping that given the time and stability it will improve as he starts to use our best players more effectively instead of not playing to their strengths (I'm talking about Martin esp....he's being wasted up to now)

[Day]

6 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

we are always looking to improve things

He has said this though hasn't he, just not throwing silly money at it. Without quoting your full post again as you say football squads require continuous improving, everyone knows this.

Honestly think he's just trying to manage squad morale whilst letting the fans know we're still in the market and looking to improve things.

[Bazal77]

8 hours ago, Spanish said:

Did you go or watch it on ramstv?

which match? 

just out of interest, if you are going to try and inform me that were not that bad and theres some positive signs then please dont waste either of our times.

 

[PistoldPete2]

50 minutes ago, swiftur said:

He has already said ,  any player can leave if his transfer valuation of them is met by another club.Surely they realise he wants rid of most of them.

We have to stick with GR and let him build his own side,only time will tell if he is up to the job.

I would have thought any manager would be prepared to sell a player If the price is right. But having sold our two best p,ayers , I guess you're right if we are prepared to sell them at prices that were nothing special then we will certainly be prepared to let anyone else go I think. 

[Derby blood]

Simply answear YES Mr Rowett is up to the job, will he be given time? I hope so, because we need some stability, so please Mel give him time.

[brady1993]

One big concern I have with Rowett is what he says has been contradicted by his actions on quite a few occasions.

There was a lot of talk from him before the summer started about bringing in athletic, young, hungry players to compliment the squad and give us the impetus. Yet 2 of the 4 players we sign are on the wrong sign of 30 and one of them (as much as I like Huddlestone for what he can do) has only exacerbated our problems with athleticism.

He's talked a lot about taking the game to opponents, getting in their faces and making life difficult. Also he's talked about his admiration of Klopp's playstyle but are seemingly being set up to sit deep and just defend the box before hoofing it forwards. 

He talked quite a bit before he came back about his admiration of Martin as a player  (possibly thinking of dropping him into a number 10 slot) gears up to play with him all preseason but sets up in a style where Martin will be ineffectual (I.e. no support and hoofing balls into channel).

He's talked about wanting to play either a 433 or 4231 so we can have that extra man in midfield and have a bit more control. Yet plan a seems to be to bypass the midfield and launch into channels. 

Also his reasons for selling ince and Hughes for the fees they were sold, just don't hold up to scrutiny 

Personally I do think there are reasons to doubt wether he is truly the man to take us forward and even if does get us on a roll, I doubt it's going to be pretty.

However I must emphasise that I do strongly believe he should get the season to see what he can do and there are definitely some positive signs; his 4 signings this summer would look to be good acquisitions for a start. 

[angieram]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Until we move players on and GR has a squad he can call his own it is unfair to judge. 

We haven't really had this since Nigel Clough, to be honest.

Yet each manager since has been judged and found wanting. It's a sad indictment of a club that has money.

[Turnstile]

12 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

One big concern I have with Rowett is what he says has been contradicted by his actions on quite a few occasions.

There was a lot of talk from him before the summer started about bringing in athletic, young, hungry players to compliment the squad and give us the impetus. Yet 2 of the 4 players we sign are on the wrong sign of 30 and one of them (as much as I like Huddlestone for what he can do) has only exacerbated our problems with athleticism.

 

Yes I don't understand this. I was stunned with huddlestone,he's not slow he's static,not what we needed.

[TobyWanKenobi]

On evidence so far, no. But it's a bit unfair to come to a conclusion after so few games.

Ask me again around Christmas.

[Mick Brolly]

10 hours ago, scarboroughwa said:

Haha,  it only took five games for this thread to come out. 

Kids, these days. 

Bloody young generation stop having a opinion now  I demand it !

[Mick Brolly]

11 hours ago, MrsRam said:

Yes he is up to the job - he needs time.  Seems a lot of new folk on here with negative posts, Do you all remember last season?

And you new folk don't come on here being negative , praise only please !

[Mick Brolly]

3 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

I notice that a lot of these kind of threads involve members with a low post count. 

So it's mardy moan time. 

Yes you mardy moaners haven't you Learnt yet don't post what you think , like posts you don't agree with , follow the crowd baaaaaaaaaaa!

[Owd miner]

All these folk saying keep him for a couple off years..... we had some really nice blokes who were managers of pit. .....nice but not very good at being managers.... heart in't right place and all that but guess what that pit isn't open na due to his poor management... 

[brady1993]

32 minutes ago, swiftur said:

Yes I don't understand this. I was stunned with huddlestone,he's not slow he's static,not what we needed.

Here is where I get confused with what Rowett was intending because with a Hughes gone and with question marks on Thornes fitness we did need a player who can dictate play which Huddlestone is perfect. However if your going to sign Huddlestone you need have a very clear idea of how your going to utilise because whilst he is a top drawer player, if he doesn't have the right players around him he will be a liability. 

For example you slot him in as a CDM in a three man midfield where the other two midfielders are energetic  (say Hughes and Bryson) and you can watch as he completely dictates how the game is going to be played and he provides an effective shield for the centre backs. However play him in a 2 man midfield where his partner is also slow as well as provided zero help in terms of controlling the play and gets dragged out of position as well as having a #10 who is very much a striker (not really a criticism of Vydra who I actually really like but he isn't going to give you that much defensively) and his weaknesses start to come to fore. 

[McRamFan]

4 games in, bloated squad, knives out...you lot of moaners not got the patience for the phone in, or are you all out of credit?