The boring Man City discussion

[Ambitious]

On 03/11/2018 at 07:31, David said:

Just read that, hardly surprising any of it.

Not a chance their rise was within the rules, anyone could see that, but again, same with the FL no backbone when it comes to punishing clubs.

Any legal threat and they fold, won’t be long before the governing bodies pay compensation to these clubs apologising for any distress caused.

FFP may as well be scrapped now.

FFP is dressed up as a vehicle to protect clubs from going bust, although I see it as more of a vehicle to keep the status quo. 

City are, by all accounts, a medium sized football club in England. They're a similar size to Everton, Leeds, Sunderland & Newcastle. They don't hold the fanbase that United or Liverpool have after their years of success, at least not yet. The only way they can be commercially competitive is to have an owner willing to compete financially despite not generating the income the larger clubs in the world do. 

Do their fans not deserve to witness success? For me, the fans that supported City despite having one of the world's most successful clubs in their own backyard deserve every ounce of success they have and it's not come without the huge investment in infrastructure that will see City establish themselves as a genuinely big club in the future. 

The fans that had to endure their rivals winning the treble during the 98-99 season that were still showing up week in, week out in Division 2 (League One) - they deserve this success and the only way it was realistically going to happen was someone putting their hand in their pocket. No amount of marketing was ever going to turn Shaun Goater into Andy Cole or Lee Bradbury into David Beckham. All the best to them. I hope they have plenty more years upsetting the elitist supporters of this country: United, Liverpool & Arsenal! 

[richinspain]

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

FFP is dressed up as a vehicle to protect clubs from going bust, although I see it as more of a vehicle to keep the status quo. 

City are, by all accounts, a medium sized football club in England. They're a similar size to Everton, Leeds, Sunderland & Newcastle. They don't hold the fanbase that United or Liverpool have after their years of success, at least not yet. The only way they can be commercially competitive is to have an owner willing to compete financially despite not generating the income the larger clubs in the world do. 

Do their fans not deserve to witness success? For me, the fans that supported City despite having one of the world's most successful clubs in their own backyard deserve every ounce of success they have and it's not come without the huge investment in infrastructure that will see City establish themselves as a genuinely big club in the future. 

The fans that had to endure their rivals winning the treble during the 98-99 season that were still showing up week in, week out in Division 2 (League One) - they deserve this success and the only way it was realistically going to happen was someone putting their hand in their pocket. No amount of marketing was ever going to turn Shaun Goater into Andy Cole or Lee Bradbury into David Beckham. All the best to them. I hope they have plenty more years upsetting the elitist supporters of this country: United, Liverpool & Arsenal! 

Although I agree with every word of this, it doesn't mean that City haven't broken the rules to get where theyare. And I imagine will continue to do so until they become that genuinely big club.

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

FFP is dressed up as a vehicle to protect clubs from going bust, although I see it as more of a vehicle to keep the status quo. 

City are, by all accounts, a medium sized football club in England. They're a similar size to Everton, Leeds, Sunderland & Newcastle. They don't hold the fanbase that United or Liverpool have after their years of success, at least not yet. The only way they can be commercially competitive is to have an owner willing to compete financially despite not generating the income the larger clubs in the world do. 

Do their fans not deserve to witness success? For me, the fans that supported City despite having one of the world's most successful clubs in their own backyard deserve every ounce of success they have and it's not come without the huge investment in infrastructure that will see City establish themselves as a genuinely big club in the future. 

The fans that had to endure their rivals winning the treble during the 98-99 season that were still showing up week in, week out in Division 2 (League One) - they deserve this success and the only way it was realistically going to happen was someone putting their hand in their pocket. No amount of marketing was ever going to turn Shaun Goater into Andy Cole or Lee Bradbury into David Beckham. All the best to them. I hope they have plenty more years upsetting the elitist supporters of this country: United, Liverpool & Arsenal! 

What about the knock on effect that City's behaviour has on the rest of the English football pyramid? 

[Ambitious]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

What about the knock on effect that City's behaviour has on the rest of the English football pyramid? 

Man Utd are spending £100m+ on players, so the as I see it City are just a competitor. The TV money in the Premier League has caused the biggest issue as Championship clubs have needed to spend more to keep their players and gamble on getting a chunk of the cash. 

When all said and done: the players are the same whether they're earning £500/week or £500,000/week. Lionel Messi is still Lionel Messi & Theo Robinson is still Theo Robinson. 

As for them driving the prices up, well it could be surprising to know that Derby County have broken the british record for transfers more often than Man City. City also don't hold any of the top 10 most expensive transfers in history, they belong to a mix of PSG, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester United & Juventus. 

It's also worth noting that bigger teams are spending this type of money, yet making year-on-year profits. It really does show the obscene amount of money available at the top.  

[CWC1983]

6 hours ago, Ambitious said:

 

It's also worth noting that bigger teams are spending this type of money, yet making year-on-year profits. It really does show the obscene amount of money available at the top.  

I get what you are saying about the fans of City, but the whole thing doesn't sit easy with me. 

They have a totally unfair competitive advantage due to being subsidised by the Sheikh. 

They blatantly cheated FFP rules but decline to answer the charges, instead  threaten with lawyers. They setup a secret project to hide costs.....

Take a look at other club sponsors around the EPL. Irrespective of club owners, they are global brands and on the face of it all "arms length" deals. 

Look at City, all the main sponsor's are Abu Dhabi controlled and conveniently linked with the club owners.

Its maybe just me, but Im interested in this sort of stuff and what goes on behind the glitz and glamour on a Saturday..

There's still 3 more Speigel revelations to come, but some of them look like towards the football administrators. 

 

 

[Ambitious]

4 hours ago, CWC1983 said:

I get what you are saying about the fans of City, but the whole thing doesn't sit easy with me. 

They have a totally unfair competitive advantage due to being subsidised by the Sheikh. 

They blatantly cheated FFP rules but decline to answer the charges, instead  threaten with lawyers. They setup a secret project to hide costs.....

Take a look at other club sponsors around the EPL. Irrespective of club owners, they are global brands and on the face of it all "arms length" deals. 

Look at City, all the main sponsor's are Abu Dhabi controlled and conveniently linked with the club owners.

Its maybe just me, but Im interested in this sort of stuff and what goes on behind the glitz and glamour on a Saturday..

There's still 3 more Speigel revelations to come, but some of them look like towards the football administrators. 

As my previous point states, they don't have an advantage because Man Utd can spend more and still make circa £40m profits. The only thing them being subsidised by the Sheikh does is ensure they're competitive against the bigger clubs. Leicester won the Premier League after spending a modest amount, although lets not forget they broke the rules in the Championship, but to be competitive year-on-year it's the same clubs - the big clubs that have generated a fanbase due to being successful at key moments during the growth of football (Liverpool, Arsenal & Manchester United) and those smaller two that have 'bought' success (Chelsea & Manchester City). Admittedly, Chelsea were already a sizeable club before the investment, but that really pushed them on. 

If City never had the investment, it would probably mean an extra couple of titles for Manchester United and Man City would probably be hanging around lower mid-table in the Premier League. It wouldn't stop the likes of United spending £90m on Pogba or having a wagebill of £581m. 

My point is: City had to spend the money to become successful in the first place. Over time the lines will blur as they generate new fans and become a larger club years as their infrastructure & history dictates. You can't have the cart before the horse, though, so reality is that they needed to spend the money. It brings me back to my original point: FFP seems a weapon to keep the likes of United, Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona in a position to spend more money due to their size and stops any ambitious clubs from unsettling their elitist hierarchy. 

[Phoenix]

Meanwhile, going back to the title of this thread, I wish we could be boring and score 5 or 6 goals a match.

[CWC1983]

19 hours ago, Ambitious said:

As my previous point states, they don't have an advantage because Man Utd can spend more and still make circa £40m profits. The only thing them being subsidised by the Sheikh does is ensure they're competitive against the bigger clubs. Leicester won the Premier League after spending a modest amount, although lets not forget they broke the rules in the Championship, but to be competitive year-on-year it's the same clubs - the big clubs that have generated a fanbase due to being successful at key moments during the growth of football (Liverpool, Arsenal & Manchester United) and those smaller two that have 'bought' success (Chelsea & Manchester City). Admittedly, Chelsea were already a sizeable club before the investment, but that really pushed them on. 

If City never had the investment, it would probably mean an extra couple of titles for Manchester United and Man City would probably be hanging around lower mid-table in the Premier League. It wouldn't stop the likes of United spending £90m on Pogba or having a wagebill of £581m. 

My point is: City had to spend the money to become successful in the first place. Over time the lines will blur as they generate new fans and become a larger club years as their infrastructure & history dictates. You can't have the cart before the horse, though, so reality is that they needed to spend the money. It brings me back to my original point: FFP seems a weapon to keep the likes of United, Madrid, Juventus and Barcelona in a position to spend more money due to their size and stops any ambitious clubs from unsettling their elitist hierarchy. 

No problem, we'll have to agree to disagree. 

In my head, they broke rules and cheated to get where they are. 

Over that period, they knowingly broke the rules that most other clubs adhered to and they gained a unfair advantage.  

 

[BriggRam]

I was at the “Citeh” champions league game against Shakhtar Donetsk last night and before the game in “Citeh”square an entertainment area right outside the stadium they had Shay Given on, talking mainly about there youth system and the importance of it and also how much he is enjoying being at Derby working with Frank Lampard, he said that he got as much joy when we scored that late equaliser against Reading watching the game as any goal he’d been involved playing a game, he said he and the Derby staff celebrated it hugging and cheering as tho they’d win the World Cup ?

As to the game City were different gravy, total different class to Shakhtar, we would have given them a better game, and honestly my missus said to me on 7 mins, there not quite Derby are they, referring to the noise and chants and we were in the East stand behind the goal not the family stand, and in all honesty it didn’t get much better even with all the goals, the stadium is awesome but give me the south stand bouncing everyday of the week.....the reason I went was for a treat for my lasses lad, he is 10 and city mad, also took my lad he’s 9 and normal he’s Derby through and through

[angieram]

On 08/11/2018 at 07:39, Barnetbyram said:

I was at the “Citeh” champions league game against Shakhtar Donetsk last night and before the game in “Citeh”square an entertainment area right outside the stadium they had Shay Given on, talking mainly about there youth system and the importance of it and also how much he is enjoying being at Derby working with Frank Lampard, he said that he got as much joy when we scored that late equaliser against Reading watching the game as any goal he’d been involved playing a game, he said he and the Derby staff celebrated it hugging and cheering as tho they’d win the World Cup ?

As to the game City were different gravy, total different class to Shakhtar, we would have given them a better game, and honestly my missus said to me on 7 mins, there not quite Derby are they, referring to the noise and chants and we were in the East stand behind the goal not the family stand, and in all honesty it didn’t get much better even with all the goals, the stadium is awesome but give me the south stand bouncing everyday of the week.....the reason I went was for a treat for my lasses lad, he is 10 and city mad, also took my lad he’s 9 and normal he’s Derby through and through

Thanks for sharing. It was a winner not an equaliser. Is that your mistake or Given's?

Nice story though. 

[BriggRam]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

Thanks for sharing. It was a winner not an equaliser. Is that your mistake or Given's?

Nice story though. 

My mistake ????????

[CWC1983]

Collymore going for City fans tonight on twitter by asking if they care about their owners and the human rights issues in UAE going on now. 

Intersting theoretical question, how would Derby fans feel about being owned by someone or a group with a dubious track record on human rights or a shady past if they were ploughing loads of £ into the club? 

A younger me probobly wouldn't care, but now Id probobly walk away. 

[Highgate]

23 hours ago, CWC1983 said:

Collymore going for City fans tonight on twitter by asking if they care about their owners and the human rights issues in UAE going on now. 

Intersting theoretical question, how would Derby fans feel about being owned by someone or a group with a dubious track record on human rights or a shady past if they were ploughing loads of £ into the club? 

A younger me probobly wouldn't care, but now Id probobly walk away. 

Similar questions could be leveled at Chelsea and the ultimate source of their wealth. 

Wouldn't have this issue if clubs were owned by their own fans.  It's the way to go for so many reasons!

 

[Sexydadbod]

Unpopular opinion but I think that Man City are overrated. Lyon(twice) and Chelsea showed that when you attack them with speed, they wobble a lot. Liverpool showed the same last season. They seem to have an aura around them in England as if they are unbeatable and as if they are Pep’s Barca or Bayern sides but when I look at their team, only Aguero and De Bruyne when fit would “scare” me if I was oppositon. They don’t compare to the other premier league great teams in my opinion. The Arsenal team featuring Bergkamp and Henry and Man Utd team of Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo would have had a field day against the Man City defence. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

On 21/11/2018 at 22:38, CWC1983 said:

Collymore going for City fans tonight on twitter by asking if they care about their owners and the human rights issues in UAE going on now. 

Intersting theoretical question, how would Derby fans feel about being owned by someone or a group with a dubious track record on human rights or a shady past if they were ploughing loads of £ into the club? 

A younger me probobly wouldn't care, but now Id probobly walk away. 

We're just a shady investment deal away from a similar quandary, as is pretty much every club.

if the ownership went to someone/something I found I couldn't stomach, I'd probably become less invested. I couldn't go over to another team, but I'd not feel as connected.

 

[McRamFan]

On 21/11/2018 at 22:38, CWC1983 said:

Collymore going for City fans tonight on twitter by asking if they care about their owners and the human rights issues in UAE going on now. 

Did they ask about Ulrika's human rights after he beat her up, in a bar in Paris?

Here is an eye witness report, incase you want to fact check it, other resourses are available, including his partial admission.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/539485/heres-brutal-truth-about-night-stan-hit-ulrika-i-saw-it-all/

[McRamFan]

Just now, McRamFan said:

Did they ask about Ulrika's human rights after he beat her up, in a bar in Paris?

Here is an eye witness report, incase you want to fact check it, other resourses are available, including his partial admission.  The bloke is an absolute scrote.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/539485/heres-brutal-truth-about-night-stan-hit-ulrika-i-saw-it-all/

 

[CWC1983]

6 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Did they ask about Ulrika's human rights after he beat her up, in a bar in Paris?

Here is an eye witness report, incase you want to fact check it, other resourses are available, including his partial admission.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/539485/heres-brutal-truth-about-night-stan-hit-ulrika-i-saw-it-all/

No need to link the article, I was in the bar next door when it happened, but didnt hear about it until the next day. 

Anyway, classic whataboutary. The question was about football clubs and owners. 

[Comrade 86]

20 hours ago, CWC1983 said:

No need to link the article, I was in the bar next door when it happened, but didnt hear about it until the next day. 

Anyway, classic whataboutary. The question was about football clubs and owners. 

@McRamFan's point is perfectly fair IMO. Far from helping, it probably undermines what is a valid question when it is posed by a narcissistic, self-promoting sleazebag like Collymore.  

[CWC1983]

41 minutes ago, 86 points said:

@McRamFan's point is perfectly fair IMO. Far from helping, it probably undermines what is a valid question when it is posed by a narcissistic, self-promoting sleazebag like Collymore.  

Not a fan then? ?

I dont mind Collymore, he has some very valid points and asks questions a lot of people in his position dont want to ask. 

He does occasionally post things to create controversy which I dont like,   however some of his views make me think and question my beliefs and thoughts, which in my head is good. 

There's no doubt he has been a dick in the past, plus im not convinced twitter is the best vehicle for him as he sometimes shoots from the hip.

If he gives an opinion on something, its guaranteed the that majority of the first 10 responses are similar to @McRamFan,s response. Would it not be better to engage in constructive conversation, or not engage at all.