Online fanbase, more harm than good?

[Day]

6 hours ago, Parsnip said:

Ffs I immediately apologised to Will for that comment.

If you did actually say that I missed that post so don't take it personally!  

[BathRam72]

13 hours ago, David said:

Using this post as a starting point for a new discussion.

It's a post that I guess get's to me a little personally, always somehow felt a little responsible for the content this forum puts out there with it being my name on the bills.

The whole reason for this forums existence was to move away from what became a toxic forum over on the DET, lack of moderators left it a free for all with abuse towards other characters.

I say characters as our online fanbase is like a soap opera, some having more prominent roles than others with persistent abuse of certain players which appears to be verging on trolling now. 

Over on Twitter you have those hoping tweets would bang (100+ retweets) to be pinned like trophies at the top of their profiles, using players like toys to get that 5 minutes of fame.

Some believe that as long as they don't boo in the ground they are safe to post what they like on the internet, these footballers that are on 30k a week won't have the internet, access to see these comments. They don't have any family, friends, wives that are all online reading that may pass things on.

Wasn't long ago that this forum had a thread saying that Vydra should never wear a Derby shirt ever again, couple hours later said players wife took to Twitter thanking fans for their support (sarcastically). 

Now Vydra is seen as a key player to this system and our hopes of promotion after scoring a penalty.

As was Martin a few weeks back when he returned but 2 games in without scoring is now surplus to requirements after Nugent's brace on Saturday. Weimann was a waste of space, give him away to Wolves, some were offering to take him there themselves a month ago yet it was Johnny Russell at 2pm Saturday who was public enemy number one for daring to take the place of our new toy Lawrence after having a poor game v Preston, where Weimann after being given some love is now showing how he can be an asset to this side. 

Players are no longer simply left on the bench after a poor game, they are sold on, free transfers, flip burgers in McDonald's, dog toys.

Buy my dog a new toy and he will wag his tail like nuts, run around like crazy showing everyone what he has. Give it a few weeks (sometimes days) it's destroyed, left discarded behind the sofa, Dad here will just buy him a new one. There is no concept of money, how that stuffed Crocodile cost a tenner, they just appear through the door one day as if by magic.

That's how we treat Derby players, use, abuse, discard and wait for Mel to buy us a new one. Oblivious to the impact our words on the internet has on football and footballers.

Remember Steve McClaren going for the Villa job and they turned him down in the end after the fan reaction online?

"I was going for the job just after I came back from Holland, the supporters got wind of it on the boards or something.

"There was a big protest about it just as I was about to take a train to Villa.

"I got a call saying there were too many anti McClaren messages and not to bother getting on the train.

"Once you get baggage, you get labelled."

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-aston-villa-fans-cost-13011840

Are we as part of the online fanbase preventing the club from moving players on, will we prevent a manager taking the job, player joining or having a negative impact on our players confidence all to live up to some online persona, for the likes, retweets, follows?

Some is emotional knee jerk stuff which you will always get with real time messaging I get that, not claiming to be an angel myself, but when it continues into Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you have to question the thinking behind some of the comments, are they real opinions or ones designed to troll?

 

Well said David and not before time.

I personally can't believe the negativity that comes out of some people. Opinion is one thing but dragging a person down constantly is another.

As you rightly said, there are a number on here who turn with the tide as well.

Take a look at yourselves and your posts.

[Gritty]

What upsets me is vitriol directed towards players based on their perceived talent. 

There is a difference between saying "Russell works hard and gives his all, but his final ball just seems to often be lacking" which is an objective (and debatable) view.

And  "Russell/Blackman etc are ****" which, aside from being offensive about someone trying their best, has no real analytical merit and points to discuss, and isn't adding much to a discussion. 

 

[Rab a dab doo]

,Encouraging constructive useful discussion on any topic can be used to enlighten and inform debaters.

As along certain boundaries of legality, persecution of people with different views and profanity are not breach.

After all as my old man used to say ' we fort for freedom of speech'.

[Gritty]

14 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

,Encouraging constructive useful discussion on any topic can be used to enlighten and inform debaters.

As along certain boundaries of legality, persecution of people with different views and profanity are not breach.

After all as my old man used to say ' we fort for freedom of speech'.

There's the law and there's rules that clubs  can choose to enforce on their members.

David runs the club 'DCFC fans' and sets the rules. He and moderators enforce them and what is and isn't acceptable. 

A web forum is a bit like a pub conversation. It's not a board meeting! But it's a conversation that the people you are talking about can over hear. 

 Having a general principle about writing posts in a way that shows some respect isn't a bad thing in my view.  But that's a principle rather than a rule.  Or rather it would be a hard rule to enforce. It would lead to a smaller community! Maybe a more constructive one?

I'm sure I have got frustrated in the past and could have worded some of my own posts better. So not trying to be pious.

[GboroRam]

29 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

After all as my old man used to say ' we fort for freedom of speech'.

And of course you are free to say what you like on your own web forum. This one however has rules and Daveo sets the agenda for what is and isn't accepted. It's not breaching anyone's rights - you can say what you want on the internet - just not necessarily here.

[ramit]

Yep, people sometimes go over the top in their criticism, probably i as well on the rare occasion, but i think all in all this forum is quite civil.  This is my favorite online site for a reason, i like the atmosphere, the little jabs between members, the puns, the wide range of views all within the framework of being Rams. We are a tolerant bunch, even openly far righties and extreme centrists can expose their views in relative safety, for we are sheep and it takes all sorts to make up this flock.

[RamNut]

The difference between the forum and pub banter is that once posted the negative comment etc is there indefinitely for all to see.  There is a build up of negativity over time.

it would be good if there was a permanent delete button so that the Poster had the option to  subsequently delete a post once the heat of the moment was passed.

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, RamNut said:

The difference between the forum and pub banter is that once posted the negative comment etc is there indefinitely for all to see.  There is a build up of negativity over time.

it would be good if there was a permanent delete button so that the Poster had the option to  subsequently delete a post once the heat of the moment was passed.

You could always ask a moderator to remove your post if you have buyers remorse.

[Ewe Ram]

10 hours ago, David said:

 

Would never want members to stop being themselves, question is are they being themselves?

Do they believe half of what they write, but or is to live up to the character they have built online, knowing they will get a reaction, attention?

Or would they genuinely love to see the club/players fail rather than succeed to prove they were right?

I think there's a number of characters like this and I've challenged at least one before. They believe it's their mission to point out the shortfalls and if you don't then you are somehow stupid. The truth is that some see the shortfalls but also don't dismiss the positives. There's a lesson in life there, it's bad for your mental health to be fixed on the bad things and anger will destroy your peace of mind. 

[RamNut]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

You could always ask a moderator to remove your post if you have buyers remorse.

Not many will do that.

[Day]

8 minutes ago, feisty said:

David runs the club 'DCFC fans' and sets the rules. He and moderators enforce them and what is and isn't acceptable.

 

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

And of course you are free to say what you like on your own web forum. This one however has rules and Daveo sets the agenda for what is and isn't accepted. It's not breaching anyone's rights - you can say what you want on the internet - just not necessarily here.

Whilst true, I would like to defend my sensitive soul here by pointing out that all but one of the rules that are in place to keep are to not just keep this forum out the courts, but obey the terms and conditions set by service providers and advertising partners.

The only rule I have personally put in place is the no personal insults, that's simply an attempt to keep this forum a friendly place to visit. 

I know we still have members that don't quite understand that complete freedom of speech pretty much means no forum but that's the truth. To be fair this usually comes up in the off topic areas and not football itself.

If it means the forum can still be online in 5,10,15 years time I will happily take all the moans, groans and stick when posts are pulled or topics locked. 

[DRBee]

Some posters post too much, repeating the same incorrect statements as 'God's truth ', determined to have the last word as if  their ego's and reputation were at stake even when incognito.

[Gritstone Ram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

 

Whilst true, I would like to defend my sensitive soul here by pointing out that all but one of the rules that are in place to keep are to not just keep this forum out the courts, but obey the terms and conditions set by service providers and advertising partners.

The only rule I have personally put in place is the no personal insults, that's simply an attempt to keep this forum a friendly place to visit. 

I know we still have members that don't quite understand that complete freedom of speech pretty much means no forum but that's the truth. To be fair this usually comes up in the off topic areas and not football itself.

If it means the forum can still be online in 5,10,15 years time I will happily take all the moans, groans and stick when posts are pulled or topics locked. 

I believe you need a sensible set of rules to stick to then everyone knows where they stand and what they can and cannot do.

[ramsbottom]

15 hours ago, David said:

Using this post as a starting point for a new discussion.

It's a post that I guess get's to me a little personally, always somehow felt a little responsible for the content this forum puts out there with it being my name on the bills.

The whole reason for this forums existence was to move away from what became a toxic forum over on the DET, lack of moderators left it a free for all with abuse towards other characters.

I say characters as our online fanbase is like a soap opera, some having more prominent roles than others with persistent abuse of certain players which appears to be verging on trolling now. 

Over on Twitter you have those hoping tweets would bang (100+ retweets) to be pinned like trophies at the top of their profiles, using players like toys to get that 5 minutes of fame.

Some believe that as long as they don't boo in the ground they are safe to post what they like on the internet, these footballers that are on 30k a week won't have the internet, access to see these comments. They don't have any family, friends, wives that are all online reading that may pass things on.

Wasn't long ago that this forum had a thread saying that Vydra should never wear a Derby shirt ever again, couple hours later said players wife took to Twitter thanking fans for their support (sarcastically). 

Now Vydra is seen as a key player to this system and our hopes of promotion after scoring a penalty.

As was Martin a few weeks back when he returned but 2 games in without scoring is now surplus to requirements after Nugent's brace on Saturday. Weimann was a waste of space, give him away to Wolves, some were offering to take him there themselves a month ago yet it was Johnny Russell at 2pm Saturday who was public enemy number one for daring to take the place of our new toy Lawrence after having a poor game v Preston, where Weimann after being given some love is now showing how he can be an asset to this side. 

Players are no longer simply left on the bench after a poor game, they are sold on, free transfers, flip burgers in McDonald's, dog toys.

Buy my dog a new toy and he will wag his tail like nuts, run around like crazy showing everyone what he has. Give it a few weeks (sometimes days) it's destroyed, left discarded behind the sofa, Dad here will just buy him a new one. There is no concept of money, how that stuffed Crocodile cost a tenner, they just appear through the door one day as if by magic.

That's how we treat Derby players, use, abuse, discard and wait for Mel to buy us a new one. Oblivious to the impact our words on the internet has on football and footballers.

Remember Steve McClaren going for the Villa job and they turned him down in the end after the fan reaction online?

"I was going for the job just after I came back from Holland, the supporters got wind of it on the boards or something.

"There was a big protest about it just as I was about to take a train to Villa.

"I got a call saying there were too many anti McClaren messages and not to bother getting on the train.

"Once you get baggage, you get labelled."

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-aston-villa-fans-cost-13011840

Are we as part of the online fanbase preventing the club from moving players on, will we prevent a manager taking the job, player joining or having a negative impact on our players confidence all to live up to some online persona, for the likes, retweets, follows?

Some is emotional knee jerk stuff which you will always get with real time messaging I get that, not claiming to be an angel myself, but when it continues into Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you have to question the thinking behind some of the comments, are they real opinions or ones designed to troll?

 

Football fans are a fickle bunch.  They change their minds when the wind blows.

As for the trolling of certain players, I do my fair share of criticising certain players, but in my defense I'll always praise them when they perform.  And I don't think I've gone all out on them as a person, just their footballing ability.  These numbnuts who go around abusing players and/or their families on Twitter want stringing up by their gonads!!!

[Duracell]

Think we have a massive impact on the team. I hear the main psychological barrier in our squad is the fear the players live with at being included in one of @Alpha's rants....

[ElBeef]

Good thread this. 

Ive been a member for a number of years but only post on rare occasions. Been an on off season ticket holder since I was 16 and suffered for the last 10 years.

I sit in the south west stand in the corner that has gets lots of fans who come once in a blue moon and feel they can vent their frustration at the team and players when you know they haven't seen the team play week in week out. Same on here, so much moaning and player bashing for people who may or may not go to games. The Johnny Russell bashing is astonishing!! One part time fan jumped up and rained fire on Russell when he got subbed. Once a hero now a vilian?

Im 44 now and have seen many highs and lows in football over the years and all its changes. The last few years i have missed more games through work and when ive been fortunate to leave at 1pm on a match day with a 20 mile drive to get home and then rush to get to the match takes its toll. There has been times when ive sat down and the match has passed me by.

Real life gets in my way of being active on forums. I enjoy the banter of those season ticket holders around me and would miss not being there. I can never understand how people have the time to keep up with posting regularly on here, especially with all the moaning.

Im not one of those fans who live and die for match day. Sometimes im not sure who we are playing from one week to the next. I do though love going to watch my team play and the hubbub surrounding me while im there. Ill talk about it on the way home or either listen to radio derby. I might watch goals on five and thats it till next time.

If you have an internet forum you are going to have people who wait to make a pun, have a go at another, abuse a player, roll up with a light hearted remark, those who take immediate offence at a remark directed at them and those like me who read more than they post. Thats just the times we live in and it should all be taken with a pinch of salt. All of you should either concerntrate on what really matters in life, wife, kids, family, work or school. 

Id miss this place if it wasn't here...but then it wouldn't be the place it is if it wasn't for the list above.

That is a person you are talking about or to. Play nicely people.....its only a game!!!!

[AshfieldRam]

I'm probably repeating a lot of what has already been said but our online fan base are so negative. 

There are 2 or 3 i can think of on the top of my head from twitter alone that are incredibly negative. It almost feels like they're wanting us to struggle to fulfil their own personal negative agenda and the moment something goes wrong they're quick to lord themselves like they're some kind of enlightened guru. 

But the biggest problem i've found with Social Media and fans is the newly adopted 'Short term-ism' outlook. I can never remember a time under Nigel Clough (when we were genuinely average) that fans we're calling for his head every week and laying into the players. In fact i remember having players like Theo Robinson who we knew wasn't too good but could do something special every so often so we supported them and hoped to see the best of the players. Fast forward 5 years and fans are quick to lay into the team after a single defeat and some of the over dramatised tweets and comments after the Wolves game were quite frankly embarrassing. 

It's not just our club though i will admit, i'd say Arsenal are by far the worst for it, but peoples outlooks appear so narrow and pessimistic.

Also, i've started listening to TalkSport a little more recently and i think they and other media outlets are quick to fan the the flames. We know from the phone in on a Monday that if its all going well, people don't have anything to talk about, but the moment something goes wrong, media outlets are so fast to jump on the opportunity to blow things out of proportion to either get more phone calls, more listeners or sell more papers.  

[Wolfie]

This is why I rarely post in the Rams section, to be honest , and especially after a poor result / performance.

It's not because I'm uninterested but when you see a handful of new threads, all negative or berating certain players, then I don't even want to join in that discussion. By trying to be reasonable with some negative posters, you just end up lengthening the thread and going round in circles. You're not going to change anyone's mind when emotions are running high.

I'd rather take refuge in The Pub. Even 20 odd new pages of incomprehensible Stive vs Stringer is preferable to that.

[Day]

13 minutes ago, AshfieldRam said:

There are 2 or 3 i can think of on the top of my head from twitter alone that are incredibly negative. It almost feels like they're wanting us to struggle to fulfil their own personal negative agenda and the moment something goes wrong they're quick to lord themselves like they're some kind of enlightened guru. 

I don't think any fan genuinely wants to see us fail, by design many football fans are pessimistic as only a handful of clubs in the world are consistently on top winning trophies, what is seen as failure is more common for the rest of us.

Safer bet to predict doom so you can say I told ya so come the end of the season, nobody likes to admit they were wrong, especially when topics are bumped, old tweets sceenshotted. It's written down on the internet for all to see, no longer can you use I don't remember saying that, not me as a get out.