David Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, BobbyD said: Always interesting to get an unbiased view of how we are doing Impossible to get on this website - its hard to get who has the upper hand between those who want us to succeed and those who want us to fail Using this post as a starting point for a new discussion. It's a post that I guess get's to me a little personally, always somehow felt a little responsible for the content this forum puts out there with it being my name on the bills. The whole reason for this forums existence was to move away from what became a toxic forum over on the DET, lack of moderators left it a free for all with abuse towards other characters. I say characters as our online fanbase is like a soap opera, some having more prominent roles than others with persistent abuse of certain players which appears to be verging on trolling now. Over on Twitter you have those hoping tweets would bang (100+ retweets) to be pinned like trophies at the top of their profiles, using players like toys to get that 5 minutes of fame. Some believe that as long as they don't boo in the ground they are safe to post what they like on the internet, these footballers that are on 30k a week won't have the internet, access to see these comments. They don't have any family, friends, wives that are all online reading that may pass things on. Wasn't long ago that this forum had a thread saying that Vydra should never wear a Derby shirt ever again, couple hours later said players wife took to Twitter thanking fans for their support (sarcastically). Now Vydra is seen as a key player to this system and our hopes of promotion after scoring a penalty. As was Martin a few weeks back when he returned but 2 games in without scoring is now surplus to requirements after Nugent's brace on Saturday. Weimann was a waste of space, give him away to Wolves, some were offering to take him there themselves a month ago yet it was Johnny Russell at 2pm Saturday who was public enemy number one for daring to take the place of our new toy Lawrence after having a poor game v Preston, where Weimann after being given some love is now showing how he can be an asset to this side. Players are no longer simply left on the bench after a poor game, they are sold on, free transfers, flip burgers in McDonald's, dog toys. Buy my dog a new toy and he will wag his tail like nuts, run around like crazy showing everyone what he has. Give it a few weeks (sometimes days) it's destroyed, left discarded behind the sofa, Dad here will just buy him a new one. There is no concept of money, how that stuffed Crocodile cost a tenner, they just appear through the door one day as if by magic. That's how we treat Derby players, use, abuse, discard and wait for Mel to buy us a new one. Oblivious to the impact our words on the internet has on football and footballers. Remember Steve McClaren going for the Villa job and they turned him down in the end after the fan reaction online? "I was going for the job just after I came back from Holland, the supporters got wind of it on the boards or something. "There was a big protest about it just as I was about to take a train to Villa. "I got a call saying there were too many anti McClaren messages and not to bother getting on the train. "Once you get baggage, you get labelled." http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-aston-villa-fans-cost-13011840 Are we as part of the online fanbase preventing the club from moving players on, will we prevent a manager taking the job, player joining or having a negative impact on our players confidence all to live up to some online persona, for the likes, retweets, follows? Some is emotional knee jerk stuff which you will always get with real time messaging I get that, not claiming to be an angel myself, but when it continues into Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you have to question the thinking behind some of the comments, are they real opinions or ones designed to troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Some are designed to troll and the posters would love to think that they could actually influence the way the board or management think. Personally I would to see owners, management and players call some of these prats out and actually come on the forum and invite some of the idiots to meet face to face and explain their comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 If you have a public form with people invited to comment then there will inevitably be some rough with the smooth. At times the criticism of christie, keogh, olsson, russell, martin etc etc is enough to make anyone cringe. However we all have our favourites. Some of the Forum elders are openly critical of certain players and therefore it is difficult for anyone to have the moral high ground. It was obvious last season that there was a spark with nugent and vydra, and it is bizarre how the same player, doing the same things has gone from zero to hero. But gary seemed to ditch vydra and not many fans probably expected him to survive. overall it probably does do more harm than good tbh. But we all keep logging on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennington Ram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 It's easy to lose perspective online too. People come on after a horrid draw snatched from the jaws of defeat, or an underwhelming performance, and post their snap judgment that's completely amplified by their emotions running high. They're real opinions... but if you asked the same person face to face on Wednesday they'd probably not sound half so cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I'm still of the opinion that most of the internet isn't actually real, so if you don't like what's being said, turn off your phone/computer/stop reading the forum. In a forum we're talking about them, not to them, just as we would down the pub. The players aren't there, the owner isn't there and the manager isn't there. You can say what you like so long as the landlord (Daveo) doesn't think you've had too many and are making a fool of yourself/are abusing his other customers/are liable to get the place shut down. That said, anyone being a dick is likely to be told they're out of order or offered outside. If the players, owner or manager start visiting the local and don't like what the locals are saying/threaten the locals who have drank in the pub for years, then the locals will likely just go and drink somewhere else/stay at home drinking 40p cans of lager. The metaphor got a bit mixed in the end there. Messaging someone directly on Twitter however, is no different to sending a letter directly to someone's house and abusive ones should be reported and acted upon as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 People come on a forum to vent at times. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is constructive. I would hate the forum to become a bland, sanitized place where everyone agrees with everyone on everything. Fans will always have views if a player is good enough for the club be it in the pub, the Internet or at the ground. Aggressive, abusive or violent messages should see that member banned however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just take a listen to the talk-in tonight, if you want to hear negative thoughts, especially when it comes to one individual. That's surely far more likely to make it back to the squad than a few posts on this forum. Especially when the host is inviting you to value our centre forward now he's not started the last 2 games. For so long people wanted a plan B, now we've stumbled upon one we want rid of plan A! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Not sure its totally the online element, just look at the talk in on radio derby. That epic rant a few weeks ago about Keogh, has that guy phoned in since to say Keogh has been excellent this season? Probably not, probably waiting for the inevitable mistake then will phone in with a I told you so call. Give people a forum online or otherwise, it does seem a human trait that moaning is easier than being positive sometimes, it always amazes me that trip advisor has as many good reviews as it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Don't see a problem, if something is crap, not saying it's crap is not going to change it from being crap. If something is good, then happy to say so. It might be that the same thing that was crap last week, is not crap this week. I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Just remember not to take it too seriously. That goes to fellow posters and anyone from the club (still love you Bryson!) who happens to be reading. Someone posting on this forum could be a genius, could be a complete moron. There's no way to really say who is right or wrong. It's also easy to come off wrong typing text in ways that you wouldn't face to face......the amount of times I see spats spiralling over misreading of comments is baffling sometimes "I see this aspect of it" "I see a different aspect" "well......" and then 30 pages later we get back to the real business of punning our way through the mire. Chill, keep perspective, everyone can have an opinion. You won't agree with anyone. That's OK. Just don't be dildo about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inglorius Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, David said: Remember Steve McClaren going for the Villa job and they turned him down in the end after the fan reaction online? "I was going for the job just after I came back from Holland, the supporters got wind of it on the boards or something. "There was a big protest about it just as I was about to take a train to Villa. "I got a call saying there were too many anti McClaren messages and not to bother getting on the train. "Once you get baggage, you get labelled." http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-aston-villa-fans-cost-13011840 Am not sure why you've fastened on that example in particular, the magic circle or old boys network is not just singular to football it's rife in the world of employment and has been for many years. People write endorsements about colleagues on their LinkedIn profiles, jobs are won and lost on the basis of people who know someone who knows someone, I recently attended a final meet the team interview and discovered that a person on the team was an individual I'd worked with 10 years ago and had a series of disagreements with. Surprisingly didn't get offered the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I don't agree with how views are expressed some times. But I think the general level of debate on this forum makes this a really good platform to contribute too. Thankfully, if you don't agree with someone, you can either argue your point or block them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 The only one who gets it in the neck from me is the ref. I don't say "long may it continue" because I am wternally optimistic that we will get a good one, some fine day ........ I don't agree with slagging payers off, not in case the poor sensitive things might read it, but because it isn't helpful or constructive. Express frustration by all means. However, the players have got one of the best jobs in the universe - they are getting paid a fortune for literally playing games. They know what they are getting into when the door into professional football opens, but it doesn't stop it being every kids dream to make it in football. Facing fan's criticisms is part of the territory, I would say. But that doesn't justify negativity or insult. Besides, we ought to make the forum a place players will come just for the laughs - Mel has already said that he enjoys reading the comments on here - so lets make it more like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, ossieram said: Some are designed to troll and the posters would love to think that they could actually influence the way the board or management think. Personally I would to see owners, management and players call some of these prats out and actually come on the forum and invite some of the idiots to meet face to face and explain their comments. Wasn't that what happened at 'sausage gate' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Will Hughes Hair said: Wasn't that what happened at 'sausage gate' Is the anywhere Saddlergate or Irongate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 People have always had opinions and I'm sure this went on before the interweb was made. The only difference is it is one person hitting a wider audience. I bet there were a few words said about Tommy Docherty back in the day. I'm sure his family and friends knew what was being said. I bet people wanted him to know. I know I scribbled his face off my first ever Panni sticker album and ruined it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Ram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 The problem I have is that negativity seems to be more contagious than contentment. I rarely look at Twitter now, the idiots seem to compete to see who can be more disparaging about the club. I don't like the fans who insist they have paid their money and reserve the right to boo, shout insults and moan. It's like you should be ashamed if don't point out every bad thing about the game. You're a happy clapper, a half fan or should expect more. It's all bull. I fully believe that a team going through a tough time will find some motivation from 20,000 fans getting behind them at the ground or online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I think the main difference between online fora and pubs is that words spoken between mates over a pint disappear as quickly as the alcoholic haze; here they sit and fester, visible to all and are added to, repeated ad nauseam by some. That's the bit I don't get, when people just keep repeating the same stuff over and over again. Doesn't make it right just because you keep saying it! Sometimes I read a thread and think "everyone hates this or that player" only to find when I look again it's the same few posters repeating themselves. I know people don't always agree with my opinions but at least you usually only have to read them once! I also think negativity is catching and a habit. Like it or not, for many it bubbles over into the matchday atmosphere, even where people declare it doesn't. Might not be outright boos but you can hear the collective doubt as soon as some players get the ball. I like the idea that the Forum should be a place where people want to visit, to be entertained and amused as well as to have the occasional rant. I do a bit of both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphanram Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 This is a debate that doesn't really have a definitive answer or answers. People have different perspectives on what constitutes abuse or what's a plain old whinge ( I assume there are forum rules on what becomes criminal abuse). What I find interesting is when one poster is having a right go about someone or something will respond by abusing them for abusing a player ( in my experience some of the anti-booing brigade are amongst the most abusive of online posters). In my opinion the players receive the lionshare of the criticism as this is the main source material of the forum but when you take a step back and see how people generally treat each other when they happen to have a different opinion, the players are not particularly being singled out. Humans have an never ending propensity to be hateful and abusive to anybody for anything. In regard to the OP, I guess creating this forum makes you a bit like God. I'm sure God sits looking down with his hands in his head thinking "I created man in my own image, how did the world end up having so many Ars*holes in it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Orphanram said: I guess creating this forum makes you a bit like God He's got more hair than me but I can see the resemblance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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