Nigel Clough Sacking

[Anon]

On ‎05‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 19:16, ronnieronalde said:

I spoke to one of the players about this, in quite some depth. Next time I see him I'll ask if I can have his permission to name him. I think you all know that I've still got some ties. Not saying I'm ITK but I still somehow get to talk to a few people inside football because of my teenage/early adult life.

He told me that the entire squad was buzzing during those last few weeks of NC's time, he told me the stuff they were producing in training was absolutely sensational and that there were times when they'd literally stop and clap one of the moves they'd just put together. He told me they were playing with a huge smile on their faces and that it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place and in his words "There's going to be teams in this league that won't know what's hit them this season"

 I started clapping at the monitor when I read this.

[Day]

Stats aside, Conor Sammon was bloody awful.

[Jayram]

On 05/05/2017 at 15:29, EnigmaRam said:

Who bloody cares about  Clough. 

Exactly. He is a decent manager at Burtons level, playing his meat and potatoes football, winning some, losing some, scraping by and keeping them alfloat but he was the dullest manager we'd had in years, the football was generally boring and we never seemed to make any progress. I'm glad he was sacked, though the way it was done reflected poorly on the club. I don't miss those years at all and never wonder what might have been, because I think it would have been more of the same.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Jayram said:

Exactly. He is a decent manager at Burtons level, playing his meat and potatoes football, winning some, losing some, scraping by and keeping them alfloat but he was the dullest manager we'd had in years, the football was generally boring and we never seemed to make any progress. I'm glad he was sacked, though the way it was done reflected poorly on the club. I don't miss those years at all and never wonder what might have been, because I think it would have been more of the same.

We never seemed to make progress?

Do you have any facts to back this up?

[DRBee]

19 hours ago, PrivateDerby said:

Cold Tuesday nights under Clough watching us struggle for a win were nowhere near as bad as people make out. 

We knew what he was trying to do and were behind him and the lads... enjoyed it more then than recent seasons to be honest, away games were a good laugh.

Happy with GR, new Derby I reckon.

Take it you have forgotten his negativity ( and lets be clear Sheff Utd fans had the same complaint ) , it seemed he would have played with nobody upfront if he could. His constant playing of people out of position. When he arrived he produced some good passing football but that went out of the window in his last couple of seasons. Many fans I know were really questioning whether to renew our season tickets but didn't, though when he was sacked we were delighted because there was the prospect of more entertaining football. 

[tomsdubs]

Dean Moxey upfront. Let that sink in. WE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO SO IT WAS FINE.

[TroyDyer]

10 hours ago, ramblur said:

Really? Whether his name had been Fred Smith or Nigel Clough,it wouldn't make any difference to the facts I've posted,or my opinion on the matter.

When Clough was able to spend over £500k he brought us Russell,Barker,Keogh,Shackell and Sammon,not a bad haul,yet I heard suggestions that the Americans wouldn't trust him with bigger money.This seemed to have been based on the Sammon signing,yet my research shows that he scored 9 goals (8 League) in 12/13 and always guaranteed a hard working performance.The following season he only got 2 League goals,but only made 3 full appearances,so all in all not quite the disaster that some would portray.In 12/13 he was 61st in the Actim index. Contrast this to Ellington/Villa/Varney in 08/9 for instance.

In 13/14,Clough started (and ended) with 4 home games against sides that finished 1st,2nd,7th and 8th in the table.In contrast SM started with teams that finished 9th,15th,16th and 21st. Given that SM is very much a momentum manager in terms of both good and bad patches,I wonder what would have happened if he'd started with the home games NC had.I suspect Why a'Twerp would have run him out of town.

Might be wrong,but I doubt Fred Smith would have kept Burton up this year. 

So why is no one crying over Burley? Zero budget and incredible football. Even took us to a playoffs. What about Billy Davies? Sure the football was ugly but took us to Wembley and got us promoted in his first season, before Pearson went behind his back for his mate Jewell. Why no tears at his dismissal? 

Clough is a fantastic manager if you want stability and safety within a division, with limited funds. He unearths the odd gem, and can certainly build a seige mentality which causes lesser players to fight hard in the way Burton have. But lets not rose tint it. He used around 60+ players while in charge here, and was allowed to spend the odd bit of money. But with exception of one season when Kuqi, Commons, Cwyka, Bueno were unreal (Until he dropped Bueno for being too lightweight and publicly destroyed Cwyka), the football was horrible to watch. It was survival football, and that is fine, because at the start of his tenure, that's exactly what it needed to be. But unless Derby fans are happy with 10th (At best) then he was always going to be replaced. 

He has kept Burton up, and that is a hell of an acheivement. Take a couple of cup runs with United out of the CV and it ain't as great as everyone thinks. 

 

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, tomsdubs said:

Dean Moxey upfront. Let that sink in. WE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO SO IT WAS FINE.

Better than Sammon. Way better.

Was it 2 goals in 4 games? Excellent goalscoring rate, 0,5.

[ramsbottom]

10 hours ago, ramblur said:

Really? Whether his name had been Fred Smith or Nigel Clough,it wouldn't make any difference to the facts I've posted,or my opinion on the matter.

When Clough was able to spend over £500k he brought us Russell,Barker,Keogh,Shackell and Sammon,not a bad haul,yet I heard suggestions that the Americans wouldn't trust him with bigger money.This seemed to have been based on the Sammon signing,yet my research shows that he scored 9 goals (8 League) in 12/13 and always guaranteed a hard working performance.The following season he only got 2 League goals,but only made 3 full appearances,so all in all not quite the disaster that some would portray.In 12/13 he was 61st in the Actim index. Contrast this to Ellington/Villa/Varney in 08/9 for instance.

In 13/14,Clough started (and ended) with 4 home games against sides that finished 1st,2nd,7th and 8th in the table.In contrast SM started with teams that finished 9th,15th,16th and 21st. Given that SM is very much a momentum manager in terms of both good and bad patches,I wonder what would have happened if he'd started with the home games NC had.I suspect Why a'Twerp would have run him out of town.

Might be wrong,but I doubt Fred Smith would have kept Burton up this year. 

You can massage stats all you want, but using common sense and looking at him in the flesh would tell you that Connor Sammon was sh**!!!  Yes he worked hard, yes he had good movement in the box, but once you ball reached him in sight of the goal he was like a dear in the headlights of an on-rushing 18 wheeler.  He couldn't finish for toffee...

The same can be applied to Nigel.  He had his good points (motivator, able to work to a budget, good spotter of talent, able to build a good squad dynamic), but those were outweighed by his negative tactics, and the limited effectiveness of his coaches.  It's pointless buying an Ariel Atom if you're just going to drive it at 30mph everywhere...

[Seth's left foot]

19 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

So why is no one crying over Burley? Zero budget and incredible football. Even took us to a playoffs. What about Billy Davies? Sure the football was ugly but took us to Wembley and got us promoted in his first season, before Pearson went behind his back for his mate Jewell. Why no tears at his dismissal? 

Clough is a fantastic manager if you want stability and safety within a division, with limited funds. He unearths the odd gem, and can certainly build a seige mentality which causes lesser players to fight hard in the way Burton have. But lets not rose tint it. He used around 60+ players while in charge here, and was allowed to spend the odd bit of money. But with exception of one season when Kuqi, Commons, Cwyka, Bueno were unreal (Until he dropped Bueno for being too lightweight and publicly destroyed Cwyka), the football was horrible to watch. It was survival football, and that is fine, because at the start of his tenure, that's exactly what it needed to be. But unless Derby fans are happy with 10th (At best) then he was always going to be replaced. 

He has kept Burton up, and that is a hell of an acheivement. Take a couple of cup runs with United out of the CV and it ain't as great as everyone thinks. 

 

I remember watching a home game (I've erased the away games under NC from my memory) which I think was a Tuesday night game where those players ripped a team apart and I remember thinking that we had a good future. But then we had Sammon who NC loved but was ***** and scuffed his shots, Bryson being played on the left wing, Moxey upfront and the constant 4-5-1's in a siege mentality.

Did a good job, deserved to be treated better but should've gone in the summer.

 

[tomsdubs]

1 hour ago, Dimmu said:

Better than Sammon. Way better.

Was it 2 goals in 4 games? Excellent goalscoring rate, 0,5.

Moxey could trap a football and coordinate his limbs, he was always going to be better. Clough dropped 1.2m on Sammon... Scary.

[cannable]

3 hours ago, DRBee said:

When he arrived he produced some good passing football but that went out of the window in his last couple of seasons. 

Incorrect/lie.

[LazloW]

I am as big a fan of NC as anybody, but even I've moved on. This is saying something at the moment, but continuing this debate is probably the most pointless thread there is on here (and, yes, the irony of me adding to it isn't lost on me).  

What's done is done.  

 

[WhiteHorseRam]

We need to change the title of this thread, as every time I see it float to the top of 'Rams Talk' my blood pressure goes up as I think the Brewers have fired Nigel.

[Leicester Ram]

5 hours ago, ronnieronalde said:

Not sure if you're just being a bit provocative here Leicester.

I've said already I don't want to fight anymore over NC or his time at the club, so here goes.

It 100% DID happen, I don't over care whether you or anyone else chooses to believe or ignore it. No skin off my nose.

He's gone, he was fired for not being good enough in some peoples eyes. Clapping or no clapping.

I was actually just having a laugh.

You do have to admit, it does sound like one of those made up stories that always end with 'and everyone stood up and clapped'.

[Seth's left foot]

15 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

We need to change the title of this thread, as every time I see it float to the top of 'Rams Talk' my blood pressure goes up as I think the Brewers have fired Nigel.

Take his surname out of the title and it will soon disappear  

[VulcanRam]

15 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

We need to change the title of this thread, as every time I see it float to the top of 'Rams Talk' my blood pressure goes up as I think the Brewers have fired Nigel.

Do you have a three-second memory? Because presumably after the first time you saw the thread you would have remembered for the next time? Just thinking of your blood pressure....

[WhiteHorseRam]

Just now, VulcanRam said:

Do you have a three-second memory? Because presumably after the first time you saw the thread you would have remembered for the next time? Just thinking of your blood pressure....

No - my memories is fine thanks. Threads rise to the top as someone posts something new, I naturally go and have a look.

The way football is these days anything is possible. The one headline that will not surprise me when it flags up is 'FA run by Zombies.'

I think we all need to move on from Nigel Clough by the way, its ancient history now.

[TelTheRam]

3 hours ago, tomsdubs said:

Dean Moxey upfront. Let that sink in. WE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO SO IT WAS FINE.

And the reason Moxey was playing there was because we didn't have a fit striker available.

 

2 hours ago, Seth's left foot said:

I remember watching a home game (I've erased the away games under NC from my memory) which I think was a Tuesday night game where those players ripped a team apart and I remember thinking that we had a good future. But then we had Sammon who NC loved but was ***** and scuffed his shots, Bryson being played on the left wing, Moxey upfront and the constant 4-5-1's in a siege mentality.

Did a good job, deserved to be treated better but should've gone in the summer.

 

If its the game I'm thinking about, but can't remember who against, I think we played with a front 3 of Commons, Bueno & Cwyka.

[DEL]

7 minutes ago, TelTheRam said:

And the reason Moxey was playing there was because we didn't have a fit striker available.

We had Chris Porter on the bench against Coventry (the one Moxey started upfront) and we lost 2-1.