Nigel Clough Sacking

[Boycie]

4 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

I'm not deluded at all hahahaha. 

Was a bit of a crazy laugh though?

[LazloW]

47 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Was a bit of a crazy laugh though?

There's a lot of that in this thread (see post a couple oboce this... lolling like a loon... he seems fair chuffed with his own observations though...

 

 

lol).

[EssendonRam]

On ‎5‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 17:35, G STAR RAM said:

And should rightfully receive it.

However that is based on keeping a low budget team with low expectations in this division, a completely different task to what he had here.

His task at Derby was to take an over (high) budget team, strip it down to low budget, keep them in the division earlier and earlier each season with expectations of maybe, possibly challenging for the nether end of the playoffs at some point in the future....whilst allowing the Board at the time to respond to questions on our ambitions with, "He's Brian's son, you know"....

But, seriously, Nigel Clough did an excellent job in his tenure given the constraints under which he had to work and always fulfilled his performance targets.

The moment he looked like he might miss one, he was sacked; by sheer happenstance, that coincided with Steve McClaren becoming contractually available.

I was furious at how dishonourably he'd been dealt with...until I realised that McClaren was his replacement.

As much as it might sound like a barbed wire fence is in close proximity to my important bits, my incredulity at any Rams fan disrespecting what Nigel achieved at Derby is matched only by utter disbelief that anyone is still querying if we upgraded the manager....

[DarkFruitsRam7]

4 hours ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

I'm not deluded at all hahahaha. 

I'm sorry but I think you're completely deluded if you think sacking Nigel Clough was the best thing to ever happen to this football club. The FA Cup trophy and the two Division One titles are irrelevant then I assume?

[davenportram]

11 hours ago, GerryDaly said:

Why have we a thread on NC's sacking still here ??! lol lol 

What's going on ? ! lol 

Gerry says ... 

MOVE ON ! 

People still want to talk about it - that's the only reason.

[Turnstile]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 06:35, NottsRam77 said:

 

but what made clement be qualified to be a "higher level" manager and therefore be trusted with a stack of money.

 

 

He was with Mels .Wasserman group.says it all.

[PrivateDerby]

18 hours ago, Paul71 said:

Where they stagnating though? Other then one season we moved forward every year league position. Gates also werent that bad, over 26k average usually, only in the last season did they drop to 23k average but that was still the 3rd best in the league.

Even in the play off season we only averaged 24k or so. It was only after that the glory hunters came back.

The thing is i dont recall booing or discontent at games in the same way that happens now. Thats what happens when you get your entitled fans coming along.

 

 

Cold Tuesday nights under Clough watching us struggle for a win were nowhere near as bad as people make out. 

We knew what he was trying to do and were behind him and the lads... enjoyed it more then than recent seasons to be honest, away games were a good laugh.

Happy with GR, new Derby I reckon.

[Mafiabob]

Is this still a thing?

[TroyDyer]

If his surname wasn't Clough, this thread would not exist. 

[Abu Derby]

Has he gone yet?

[Leicester Ram]

On 05/05/2017 at 19:16, ronnieronalde said:

I spoke to one of the players about this, in quite some depth. Next time I see him I'll ask if I can have his permission to name him. I think you all know that I've still got some ties. Not saying I'm ITK but I still somehow get to talk to a few people inside football because of my teenage/early adult life.

He told me that the entire squad was buzzing during those last few weeks of NC's time, he told me the stuff they were producing in training was absolutely sensational and that there were times when they'd literally stop and clap one of the moves they'd just put together. He told me they were playing with a huge smile on their faces and that it was only a matter of time before it all clicked into place and in his words "There's going to be teams in this league that won't know what's hit them this season"

100% didn't happen.

You got so close but you had to add the clapping bit.

[Comrade 86]

On 5/4/2017 at 23:04, CLOUGH1971-72 said:

The truth is ronnieronaldo had Sam Rush right from the start and so did I. 

But it's killing our fans to admit this. 

You were wrong about Cloughs sacking and you were wrong about Rush.

Will anyone admit I'm right? 

Strewth. Like a dog and its vomit.

[Posh Ram]

Can't believe there's even a debate about Clough's sacking. He deserves credit for building a decent Championship squad on the cheap. Nothing more. 

[ramblur]

10 hours ago, TroyDyer said:

If his surname wasn't Clough, this thread would not exist. 

Really? Whether his name had been Fred Smith or Nigel Clough,it wouldn't make any difference to the facts I've posted,or my opinion on the matter.

When Clough was able to spend over £500k he brought us Russell,Barker,Keogh,Shackell and Sammon,not a bad haul,yet I heard suggestions that the Americans wouldn't trust him with bigger money.This seemed to have been based on the Sammon signing,yet my research shows that he scored 9 goals (8 League) in 12/13 and always guaranteed a hard working performance.The following season he only got 2 League goals,but only made 3 full appearances,so all in all not quite the disaster that some would portray.In 12/13 he was 61st in the Actim index. Contrast this to Ellington/Villa/Varney in 08/9 for instance.

In 13/14,Clough started (and ended) with 4 home games against sides that finished 1st,2nd,7th and 8th in the table.In contrast SM started with teams that finished 9th,15th,16th and 21st. Given that SM is very much a momentum manager in terms of both good and bad patches,I wonder what would have happened if he'd started with the home games NC had.I suspect Why a'Twerp would have run him out of town.

Might be wrong,but I doubt Fred Smith would have kept Burton up this year. 

[BondJovi]

6 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Really? Whether his name had been Fred Smith or Nigel Clough,it wouldn't make any difference to the facts I've posted,or my opinion on the matter.

When Clough was able to spend over £500k he brought us Russell,Barker,Keogh,Shackell and Sammon,not a bad haul,yet I heard suggestions that the Americans wouldn't trust him with bigger money.This seemed to have been based on the Sammon signing,yet my research shows that he scored 9 goals (8 League) in 12/13 and always guaranteed a hard working performance.The following season he only got 2 League goals,but only made 3 full appearances,so all in all not quite the disaster that some would portray.In 12/13 he was 61st in the Actim index. Contrast this to Ellington/Villa/Varney in 08/9 for instance.

In 13/14,Clough started (and ended) with 4 home games against sides that finished 1st,2nd,7th and 8th in the table.In contrast SM started with teams that finished 9th,15th,16th and 21st. Given that SM is very much a momentum manager in terms of both good and bad patches,I wonder what would have happened if he'd started with the home games NC had.I suspect Why a'Twerp would have run him out of town.

Might be wrong,but I doubt Fred Smith would have kept Burton up this year. 

Facts may back that he did a good job with the resources at hand. The Clough name granted him longer patience with the fans, despite what he did I suspect fans would have turned away or against a Fred Smith far quicker. The name is hugely significant.

What Clough has done at Burton this season is fantastic but that does not change one tidily bit the job he did at Derby or somehow prove we wrong to sack him.

[sunnyhill60]

40 minutes ago, ramblur said:

Really? Whether his name had been Fred Smith or Nigel Clough,it wouldn't make any difference to the facts I've posted,or my opinion on the matter.

When Clough was able to spend over £500k he brought us Russell,Barker,Keogh,Shackell and Sammon,not a bad haul,yet I heard suggestions that the Americans wouldn't trust him with bigger money.This seemed to have been based on the Sammon signing,yet my research shows that he scored 9 goals (8 League) in 12/13 and always guaranteed a hard working performance.The following season he only got 2 League goals,but only made 3 full appearances,so all in all not quite the disaster that some would portray.In 12/13 he was 61st in the Actim index. Contrast this to Ellington/Villa/Varney in 08/9 for instance.

In 13/14,Clough started (and ended) with 4 home games against sides that finished 1st,2nd,7th and 8th in the table.In contrast SM started with teams that finished 9th,15th,16th and 21st. Given that SM is very much a momentum manager in terms of both good and bad patches,I wonder what would have happened if he'd started with the home games NC had.I suspect Why a'Twerp would have run him out of town.

Might be wrong,but I doubt Fred Smith would have kept Burton up this year. 

McClaren's win % was vastly better than Clough's not for four games, but over seasons.

Disregard the opposition in those games you mention, what McClaren did was start to play Eustace, who Clough signed but barely used, as CDM and that formation was the key to our success that season. He got more from basically the same squad.

[ramblur]

1 hour ago, sunnyhill60 said:

McClaren's win % was vastly better than Clough's not for four games, but over seasons.

Disregard the opposition in those games you mention, what McClaren did was start to play Eustace, who Clough signed but barely used, as CDM and that formation was the key to our success that season. He got more from basically the same squad.

You can hardly compare win %ages over different eras.What would SM's win %age have been if he were manager from end 08/9 to start 13/14,working under the same restrictions that Clough faced? What would Clough's have been if he'd been allowed to continue for seasons from 13/14 with the squad he'd carefully assembled? We'll never know.

Clough could hardly have used Eustace in 12/13,because he wasn't here. I've tried to look up the teams for Clough's 9 games in 13/14,with no success. However,I've got the appearances,both full and subs, of the midfielders for the season as follows:-  Coutts 3/5, Hendrick 18/12, Eustace 28/7 ,Hughes 37/4, Bryson 43/2.

I suspect Clough may have started with Hughes/Bryson/Hendrick in 13/14 until Hendrick got injured against Yeovil. Whether Eustace or Coutts replaced Hendrick I don't know. With Hendrick being injured,SM may have been forced to play Eustace,rather than it being a masterstroke,as you suggest,and he would inevitably play in defensive midfield. Given that SM had 37 league games ,and that Eustace started in 28,he could hardly have been an ever present,and some of those 28 may even have been under Clough(in fact I'm pretty certain some were). 

[ramblur]

2 hours ago, BondJovi said:

Facts may back that he did a good job with the resources at hand. The Clough name granted him longer patience with the fans, despite what he did I suspect fans would have turned away or against a Fred Smith far quicker. The name is hugely significant.

What Clough has done at Burton this season is fantastic but that does not change one tidily bit the job he did at Derby or somehow prove we wrong to sack him.

If the fans had turned against Fred Smith, I've no doubt they would soon have had Bert Bloggs to direct their wrath towards.

[ronnieronalde]

8 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

100% didn't happen.

You got so close but you had to add the clapping bit.

Not sure if you're just being a bit provocative here Leicester.

I've said already I don't want to fight anymore over NC or his time at the club, so here goes.

It 100% DID happen, I don't over care whether you or anyone else chooses to believe or ignore it. No skin off my nose.

He's gone, he was fired for not being good enough in some peoples eyes. Clapping or no clapping.

[Sith Happens]

5 hours ago, ramblur said:

You can hardly compare win %ages over different eras.What would SM's win %age have been if he were manager from end 08/9 to start 13/14,working under the same restrictions that Clough faced? What would Clough's have been if he'd been allowed to continue for seasons from 13/14 with the squad he'd carefully assembled? We'll never know.

Clough could hardly have used Eustace in 12/13,because he wasn't here. I've tried to look up the teams for Clough's 9 games in 13/14,with no success. However,I've got the appearances,both full and subs, of the midfielders for the season as follows:-  Coutts 3/5, Hendrick 18/12, Eustace 28/7 ,Hughes 37/4, Bryson 43/2.

I suspect Clough may have started with Hughes/Bryson/Hendrick in 13/14 until Hendrick got injured against Yeovil. Whether Eustace or Coutts replaced Hendrick I don't know. With Hendrick being injured,SM may have been forced to play Eustace,rather than it being a masterstroke,as you suggest,and he would inevitably play in defensive midfield. Given that SM had 37 league games ,and that Eustace started in 28,he could hardly have been an ever present,and some of those 28 may even have been under Clough(in fact I'm pretty certain some were). 

It was a mixture of eustace, coutts. Dont forget Thorne came in later in the season to displace Eustace.