Steve How Hard? Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 hours ago, Reithe glas said: You've taken one line and it's a bit out of context. He's not brilliant because teams know how to stop him. He doesn't get away with his "lack of mobility" any more where he did before. I'm basing that on any time I've seen him play after McClaren's golden period, even before he went to Fulham. I think the championship has improved in the last few years and the idea of a hold up target man is becoming redundant. I disagree in the same respect that Vydra was ineffective in McClarens 433 system, CM is less effective in Rowetts system.Put CM in a system that suits his style of play and he'll no doubt be effective. It's looking unlikely we'll see the best him again whilst GR remains at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cool As Custard said: Funny how 2 people can interpret the same thing very differently If he was doing then he deserved to be bombed out - whatever the rights or wrong you cant dictate to your manager. If this is true then he left Pearson no choice -First example of bad attitude. More fool him - if it was all so good at Fulham then he should have stayed. He didnt have to throw it all away & behave as he did. Another example of poor attitude & behaviour. Couldn’t disagree more - he has brought all this on himself & if he is choosing to behave like this now it’s just another example of what has got him into this situation in the first place. Ultimately which ever way you look at it he needs to move on & we need to move him on if this is how he behaving. He had a good couple of years but the world moves on - we don’t need him anymore & he doesn’t need us. He’s done very well & earned a lot of money out of Derby - we don’t owe him anything, this is professional football. He should now respect that & behave accordingly as he manages his exit from the club. What a right load of old codswallop. Not one actual fact - all opinion with not an ounce of evidence to back it up. Martin was THE focal point in a system which suited him (and Derby) down to the ground. That system has now changed radically under Rowett and his style of play doesn't fit unless there's a period in the game when we need to hold possession and see the match out. I'm not convinced that his potential game time under Rowett merits a regular place on the bench but he is still more than good enough to be a regular starter elsewhere, if the style of play involves a hold-up striker with midfield runners supporting. If he goes then fine, that's what Rowett will have decided is best for both parties but his contribution since signing on a free transfer has been significant and doesn't merit the mealy-mouthed criticism dished out by some on this forum. I find them an embarrassment to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 I think if everyone on this forum was asked if we should sell CM in this window it would be quite evenly split. My opinion is I'd only sell if we can sign a younger more mobile striker but someone who is different to what we have and I can think of a few but they would come at a cost and because January is quite a difficult window I think we'll probably end up keeping him for the season hoping he hits some form. A choice for example of Danny Ings in on loan and 5m for Martin to another championship side would test even the most ardent of CM fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool As Custard Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 19 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: What a right load of old codswallop. Not one actual fact - all opinion with not an ounce of evidence to back it up. Martin was THE focal point in a system which suited him (and Derby) down to the ground. That system has now changed radically under Rowett and his style of play doesn't fit unless there's a period in the game when we need to hold possession and see the match out. I'm not convinced that his potential game time under Rowett merits a regular place on the bench but he is still more than good enough to be a regular starter elsewhere, if the style of play involves a hold-up striker with midfield runners supporting. If he goes then fine, that's what Rowett will have decided is best for both parties but his contribution since signing on a free transfer has been significant and doesn't merit the mealy-mouthed criticism dished out by some on this forum. I find them an embarrassment to the club. Suggest you read the original post to which I was responding, which WAS all opinion with nothing to substantiate it. I was just commenting on the fact that if those original opinions were correct then they can be interpreted very differently If you read what I actually said there were quite a few ‘ifs’ in my statements Suggest you read more carefully & engage brain before criticising someone’s right to have opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Papahet said: Some serious CM fanboys on this forum. I know right, imagine sticking up for the striker that has scored the most goals for the club in the last 20 years. Imagine sticking up for one of our own players. Can't believe how blinkered some fans are. pfft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Every one has an opinion,however don't believe anyone of us viewing our opinion's on here have any idea of what has gone on between CM, the club,numerous managers and other players. Would love to know the full story, but doubt it will ever be fully revealed . Until then i respect CM for his contribution and performances for the club and hope he continues to be an asset for us in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, ram1964 said: Every one has an opinion,however don't believe anyone of us viewing our opinion's on here have any idea of what has gone on between CM, the club,numerous managers and other players. Would love to know the full story, but doubt it will ever be fully revealed . Until then i respect CM for his contribution and performances for the club and hope he continues to be an asset for us in the future. In a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, rynny said: I know right, imagine sticking up for the striker that has scored the most goals for the club in the last 20 years. Imagine sticking up for one of our own players. Can't believe how blinkered some fans are. pfft Aye, and imagine wanting to keep a 30 grand a week player who does nothing of any note nowadays but sit on the bench only appearing for the odd 10 minute cameo, even when called upon doing little to impress. But let's look at previous seasons anyway (particularly 2013/14), because that's pretty much the only argument anyone on this forum can have. 13/14: 25 goals 14/15: 21 15/16: 15 16/17: 11 17/18: 1 Oh whats that I see? Is that a decline in performance by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Is it prat season already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Just now, eddie said: Is it prat season already? Aren't you glad to be back amongst all these supportive 'fans'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Papahet said: Aye, and imagine wanting to keep a 30 grand a week player who does nothing of any note nowadays but sit on the bench only appearing for the odd 10 minute cameo, even when called upon doing little to impress. But let's look at previous seasons anyway (particularly 2013/14), because that's pretty much the only argument anyone on this forum can have. 13/14: 25 goals 14/15: 21 15/16: 15 16/17: 11 17/18: 1 Oh whats that I see? Is that a decline in performance by any chance? In a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Papahet said: Aye, and imagine wanting to keep a 30 grand a week player who does nothing of any note nowadays but sit on the bench only appearing for the odd 10 minute cameo, even when called upon doing little to impress. But let's look at previous seasons anyway (particularly 2013/14), because that's pretty much the only argument anyone on this forum can have. 13/14: 25 goals 14/15: 21 15/16: 15 16/17: 11 17/18: 1 Oh whats that I see? Is that a decline in performance by any chance? There's probably a million other cases but one from within the club.. Our very own Matej Vydra. I'm all for debating his actual worth to the team considering how others are performing in this new system but what a crock of **** you're argument is. A couple of black and white numbers take nothing into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Papahet said: Aye, and imagine wanting to keep a 30 grand a week player who does nothing of any note nowadays but sit on the bench only appearing for the odd 10 minute cameo, even when called upon doing little to impress. But let's look at previous seasons anyway (particularly 2013/14), because that's pretty much the only argument anyone on this forum can have. 13/14: 25 goals 14/15: 21 15/16: 15 16/17: 11 17/18: 1 Oh whats that I see? Is that a decline in performance by any chance? Well looking at just goals then yes it looks like a decline, except when you factor in other things, 14/15 he was on target to get 30 goals until his injury, he definitely would have scored more than 13/14. 15/16 he struggled when Clement had the team passing sideways, and had he had left him isolated (still scored the same amount of goals in the league as Howard when promoted and 1 less than Rasiak when we reached the play offs) 11 goals in 34 games, which on average is the better than the previous season goals to games. This season he hasn't had as much game time as previous seasons because of various reasons. None of that matters though, no need to look into why he has scored less. £30k a week, you know that as a fact or you just plucking numbers out the air? Rowett said he needs different types of players, horses for courses, but let's get rid of a striker that is completely different in style to all the other 3/4 we have on the books, let's ridicule him, let's say he is rubbish, in decline etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Papahet said: Aye, and imagine wanting to keep a 30 grand a week player who does nothing of any note nowadays but sit on the bench only appearing for the odd 10 minute cameo, even when called upon doing little to impress. But let's look at previous seasons anyway (particularly 2013/14), because that's pretty much the only argument anyone on this forum can have. 13/14: 25 goals 14/15: 21 15/16: 15 16/17: 11 17/18: 1 Oh whats that I see? Is that a decline in performance by any chance? No, that’s a decline in goals per season, not performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said: There's probably a million other cases but one from within the club.. Our very own Matej Vydra. I'm all for debating his actual worth to the team considering how others are performing in this new system but what a crock of **** you're argument is. A couple of black and white numbers take nothing into consideration. Vydra actually managed something Martin hasn't done thus far and that's fire a side to the Premiership, that's enough for me thanks buddy. Under Rowett we finally don't have to rely on building the eleven around Chris Martin; we are no longer one dimensional with a strict 433 or it's game over and guess what? It finally works. The same as it works without boy wonder Hughes, without Ince tearin you apart and without haggis Craig "5 year deal Bryson" at the club, who'd have thought it eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, cannable said: No, that’s a decline in goals per season, not performance Performance? Seriously pal, when was the last game Chris Martin put in a stellar 90 minute performance for us? Rowett isn't stupid. If Martin was part of his plans he'd have played at Old Trafford. Even during the rough patch at the start of the season, he barely featured bar the Wolves defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Not quite sure why it always has to be a Vydra v. Martin debate? All those stats show is that both players thrive in a system that suits their style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Papahet said: Vydra actually managed something Martin hasn't done thus far and that's fire a side to the Premiership, that's enough for me thanks buddy. Under Rowett we finally don't have to rely on building the eleven around Chris Martin; we are no longer one dimensional with a strict 433 or it's game over and guess what? It finally works. The same as it works without boy wonder Hughes, without Ince tearin you apart and without haggis Craig "5 year deal Bryson" at the club, who'd have thought it eh? You absolutely hated 2013 - 2015 didn’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodleyRam Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 There's still a lot of the season to go. I think it would be a huge mistake to get rid of a player who has proven record at this level. I am surprised at how little game time he's had but can't argue with our league position. If I was Rowett I would have given him more game time to keep him interested and match sharp. We've had the opportunities to do so and I've been surprised the amount of times he's been unused completely. If Vydra/Nugent got injured today for the rest of the season we'd have to completely rethink our strategy. So whilst CM is currently 4th choice when all are fit, he could easily become 1st choice with one injury effecting the style we currently play. He's a quality player and I've seen little to suggest anything like a bad attitude. I'd back him to seize any chance he gets. We'd struggle to replace him with anything like his quality for less than £7m-£10m in this market. I'd keep him and use him more but can't argue with our league position or that others have scored more goals. Whatever happens CM has been a great player to watch, an interesting guy to follow and a good servant to the club. Some people's attitude towards him is out of order but they're the same kind of people that would have Piers Morgan round for tea because he 'tells it like it is', so I take all that nonsense with a pinch of salt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, cannable said: You absolutely hated 2013 - 2015 didn’t you? We arent in 2013-15? So how is that relevent today in 2018? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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