sage Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, jono said: I want to agree but you know when Jonny comes on as a sub he is sooo hungry and determined. I'd almost want to reverse your suggestion and say let Camara get at them, let's start on the front foot. Instead of trying to get something back after a poor start, what about shoring things up when we are in the lead ? Because other than West Brom, Camara has been poor every time he starts. I don't mean Russell poor , i mean Blackman poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, sage said: Because other than West Brom, Camara has been poor every time he starts. I don't mean Russell poor , i mean Blackman poor. Ok .. But how many starts has he had and how many consecutive starts has he had ? Look at Bryson .. Until the last couple of games he has been a shadow chasing shadows .. Then he got in the groove and two fine performances. .. I would really like to see Camara given 2 or 3 starts on the trot. Boost his confidence, give him time to tune in. .. If it looks like it isn't working then bring JR on ... Nothing lost and lot to gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 hour ago, rammieib said: The Russell defensive qualities would be beneficial if we were actually winning games! Now by and large we have been but when Ince doesn't produce for us in a game it's not unfair to ask someone else to step up. Now who else exactly has stepped up? Well basically no one has in all reality stepped up on the goal scoring front ( I remain hopeful) but next season I have a very positive feeling I really do so long as we keep the back door shut as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, jono said: Ok .. But how many starts has he had and how many consecutive starts has he had ? Look at Bryson .. Until the last couple of games he has been a shadow chasing shadows .. Then he got in the groove and two fine performances. .. I would really like to see Camara given 2 or 3 starts on the trot. Boost his confidence, give him time to tune in. .. If it looks like it isn't working then bring JR on ... Nothing lost and lot to gain. Well there is a lot to lose. Bent isn't great at holding the ball up so another forward with poor ball retention can lead to us being swamped like at Leeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Well basically no one has in all reality stepped up on the goal scoring front ( I remain hopeful) but next season I have a very positive feeling I really do so long as we keep the back door shut as well. Agreed. Thorne, Forsyth and Martin new signings as well. Well that's how it'll feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, sage said: Well there is a lot to lose. Bent isn't great at holding the ball up so another forward with poor ball retention can lead to us being swamped like at Leeds. Like we got swamped when he came on V Newcastle ? it isn't about pick either of them regardless. Surely it's about who are we playing, what have they got, do Razza's skills give us an edge in those circumstances. I am not disagreeing fundamentally, but raising the point that a front foot challenge could be beneficial to the team and starting Camara must provide a big plus for his confidence and therefore effectiveness on the pitch. There have been signs with his more frequent cameos that there is a player there and the more game time the more obvious they become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I don't know where this myth about Russell being good at defending has come from. Running around a lot doesn't mean he is good at defending. Anyone who went to Norwich away would know what I mean.... Anya bailed him out so many times. If we are so bothered about Russell's great 'defending', why not just stick him at left back because he isn't contributing anything offensively. Likewise, Camara's defending shouldn't be considered 'bad' just because of his performance against Leeds, where we had our 5th choice left back starting. Our left hand side in that game comprised of Shackell, Hanson and Johnson. It's no wonder that Camara didn't have the best of games because that hand side was extremely unbalanced. Letting Camara have a run of starts and letting Russell take a breather may be best all round. Also noted on another topic, Butterfield plays a lot better when Camara is in the team as he can play through balls to him. Having said all that, Camara looks a lot better when he plays as a right winger as opposed to left wing but he isn't taking Ince's place anytime soon. With the amount of injuries at the moment in midfield it looks like we may be forced into a formation change. Give this front 4 a go Camara Ince Anya Bent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I will agree that Camara needs a run in the side. He has been in and out, brought on as an impact player, often when the game is already gone. It is no surprise that he has disappointed, when he has had that much instability. He is still getting slated for the Leeds game, but if you take the trouble to watch the game again, you will see that Leeds had put three players on him (yes, 3 players) all the time. The poor lad didn't have a chance. The negs simply blamed him for taking too many players on before passing the ball, but he didn't have that choice - there were too many players because Leeds had deliberately put them all there. I much more like the idea that instead of him coming on and making an impact in order to change the game, we put him on from the start and make the opposition try and change the game, preferably after the game has already gone from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I know this is a bit weird but currently we have the best defence in the championship! Oh and one of the poorest attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I've never been a great fan of Ince's overall contribution, but he's improved his defensive play / workrate without it being at a cost to his attacking duties. Russell's defensive contributions are all well and good, but currently he's providing opposition defences the grand sum of **** all to think about for 95% of his time on the pitch. Unbalanced and entirely predictable (...but that's enough about my mental state) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: Camara Ince Anya Bent. It's attractive and I can see Ince pulling Huth and miladdo all over the place making space for Bent but who are the mids ? Johnson / De Saart or Butterfield / Johnson or De Saat/ Johnson I want de saarts probing quick passes but we need Johnsons muscle I think. Butterfield can do a bit of both but is a bit jack of all trades master of none at the moment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I see everyone's back on the 'Russell out' train. Camara did well when he came on against Newcastle - playing on the right side, where Ince normally plays. Going on that reasoning, we should be moving Ince over to the left and put Camara on the right. Problem with that; everyone thinks Ince is better on the right (which he is), gives Ince a full back who is likely to get in his way as Olsson likes to get forward. Plus you lose his threat when cutting inside from the right. Put Camara on the left side and he needs to do his defensive work to help Olsson. It depends on what you favour; the defensive solidity of Russell on the left or Camara's unpredictability on the right. Russell was poor going forward against Newcastle. I wonder how much that knee to the head took out of him? I thought defensively he did an ok job helping out Olsson. I saw Newcastle's main threats coming straight through middle of our midfield. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Russell has a false reputation for being defensively sound because he runs a lot and brought up Norwich away as an example. Think it was @McLovin. I was obviously at a different match that day as he was kicked from pillar to post, taken off injured at half time and was still our best player! Camara will have his uses this season, I have no doubt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavesaRam Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Podgey - you are right about Russell - along with ill Hughes, he is always targetted for a clattering - Norwich would have needed a chainsaw to do much more harm to him! He is therefore offering some threat to the opposition I reckon that Ince is actually far better playing in the middle, in "the hole", where it is much more difficult to show him outside. With him effectively only having one leg, her always wants to cut back inside again. That he has achieved so much on the right wing in recent weeks is all the more credit to him. But in the middle he is much more free to go either way (and no, I don't think he is gay!). That is where he moved to when Camara came on yesterday, and maybe another reason for our sudden effectiveness and threat. Just imagine what we could have achieved if we had made that threat from the start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Camara played on the right for Angers, go watch any old clips of him there and you see he likes cutting inside on his left like Ince does. The other answer is maybe do something crazy like slightly modify the formation and bring Ince central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Can't be arsed to trawl through this particular thread - read so much garbage about Razza and Johnny on these boards lately and I can't face reading anymore more this evening. My tuppence worth would be we need both. They bring very different things to the table and there's a role for both in the squad IMO. I do love the total lack of fear that Razza exhibits so I'd be pretty sure he never visits these threads or he'd be terrified to try anything for fear of making a mistake and earning a roasting from the wealth of armchair experts on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Didn't Russell go down injured in the first few minutes on Saturday? Couldn't have helped his performance much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsdubs Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 My main issue with Russell is he is so lacklustre compared to the guy that joined, the energy and aggression seems to have completely gone. Where is the Johnny that used to rampage forward driving past defenders gone? To me it just seems like he's coasting these days, the passion he had with the original Mac side isn't there. Cure this and we'll get the good winger we originally had back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 19 hours ago, McLovin said: Camara Ince Anya Bent. They certainly looked promising at the end of the game, could be worth of try. Lot's of movement and technical ability there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 On 04/02/2017 at 20:13, PistoldPete2 said: How many goals has camara scored then? Or assists? Russell has 1 goal and 0 Assists in his last 20+ Games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Olsson/Russell vs. Ritchie, or Olsson/Camara vs. Ritchie? I think the latter would have been suicide from the get go. No such consideration against Ipswich, as them playing wingbacks played into our hands. Just can't compare Ipswich and Newcastle otherwise. Too simple to say that Camara did well, we barely had any defending to do, whereas against Newcastle, we were going to be on the back foot at some point. I've only seen the highlights of Saturday's game, was listening to it on t'wireless - it seemed the majority of the threat came from Diame, who, much like most other times I've seen him play Derby, can get in some really good positions, but can't finish for toffee. That suggests to me that Russell's selection was justified, defensively at least. Maybe, if he'd put that chance away from the corner, probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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