POLL: Chris Martin

[lee_derby]

going to another club what is what he wanted and hes done jack, so if he carnt improve there he aint going to do any better here.lets face it he always admitted it was down to our other players supplying him with the goals and loads of penaltys why he has got the tally.also he only scored when he played with freedom and went mardy when told how to play. no good scoring the most goals in the leagh when we cannot defend and drop like donkeys at xmas. what happens when we play against 442 we get embarresed

[Anag Ram]

This thread should be renamed Crexit.

First it was positive "but Chris is what we know, we can't change".

Now it's more "let's get rid-there will be tough times in the interim but in the end change will be good".

We have slumped like the pound but the seeds of recovery may not be far away.

In the words of Peter Cook, "it's not au revoir Chris, it's goodbye."

(I voted Chrisin not Crexit by the way)

[europia]

If CM isn't a success at Fulham, he will, I expect be returning to DCFC. Poll or no poll....

[Steve How Hard?]

One for the CM haters to chew over. His former manager Paul Lambert has said.. " If u ask him to link up play and get hold of the ball and, if a chance comes his way, he is one of the most natural finishers I have ever worked with. There is no problem with his finishing........and the guy is a natural finisher." To be fair he also says " I had Chris at Norwich and he is not gonna run in behind people, he can't do that" but we know that, he was never in our team to do that.

[Sexydadbod]

11 minutes ago, Steve How Hard!!! said:

One for the CM haters to chew over. His former manager Paul Lambert has said.. " If u ask him to link up play and get hold of the ball and, if a chance comes his way, he is one of the most natural finishers I have ever worked with. There is no problem with his finishing........and the guy is a natural finisher." To be fair he also says " I had Chris at Norwich and he is not gonna run in behind people, he can't do that" but we know that, he was never in our team to do that.

We aren't saying that he was never a decent player, we are playing that in the here and now he is not the same player

[Steve How Hard?]

8 minutes ago, McLovin said:

We aren't saying that he was never a decent player, we are playing that in the here and now he is not the same player

Fair point but all strikers go through barren spells. I'm just trying to say, cut the guy some slack. He deserves it for the good he's done for the team. By the way from being an observer of this topic, I didn't have u down as a Cm hater but some of the other comments towards him have been irrationally vitriolic and I don't think he deserves that.

[Nuwtfly]

Paul Lambert has made some interesting comments about Chris Martin recently...

Scotland need to play another forward alongside Chris Martin to get the best out of him, according to his former manager Paul Lambert.

Martin's inclusion for the opening two World Cup qualifiers against Malta and Lithuania has surprised many observers.

He narrowly missed the target with a volley and a header as the Scots were held 1-1 by Lithuania on Saturday.

"I had Chris at Norwich and he is not going to run in behind people, he can't do that," Lambert told BBC Sportsound.

"He hasn't got the speed to do it. If you ask him to link play up and get hold of the ball and, if a chance comes his way, he is one of the most natural finishers I have ever worked with. There is no problem with his finishing.

"But, if a team lies deep against you, like Lithuania, there is nowhere for him to run because he hasn't got the pace to run in behind.

"But he can certainly lay it off for someone else - and the guy is a natural finisher."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37602051

...someone like Vydra, maybe?

[nottingram]

15 minutes ago, McLovin said:

We aren't saying that he was never a decent player, we are playing that in the here and now he is not the same player

Average Championship player if I recall your comments correctly 

[Sexydadbod]

11 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Average Championship player if I recall your comments correctly 

Based on current form he certainly is. Hasn't scored for 20 club games now. I think we would all agree that Matt Smith is not the best of championship strikers but Martin is genuinely competing with him to get in the Fulham team as the main striker

[Sexydadbod]

26 minutes ago, Steve How Hard!!! said:

Fair point but all strikers go through barren spells. I'm just trying to say, cut the guy some slack. He deserves it for the good he's done for the team. By the way from being an observer of this topic, I didn't have u down as a Cm hater but some of the other comments towards him have been irrationally vitriolic and I don't think he deserves that.

Not a Chris Martin hater , I don't hate any players associated with Derby or any footballers in general at all to be honest. Just stating my opinion that he is declining rapidly. Not his fault because it happens with everyone. We all saw the decline of two of the best forwards in the world Torres and Falcao. It was the same with them, people tried to convince themselves and others that it was simply a case of bad form when it wasn't, it was the case that they weren't that good anymore. I don't want to see us going down the same road that teams did in both Torres and falcao and end up wasting time in the hope that Martin is going to back to the player he was because I am 95% sure he won't. If he does then fair play , I will have to take that humble pie but I very much doubt it, especially at his age.

[nottingram]

22 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Based on current form he certainly is. Hasn't scored for 20 club games now. I think we would all agree that Matt Smith is not the best of championship strikers but Martin is genuinely competing with him to get in the Fulham team as the main striker

That's fair enough but I'm not keen on the way he has been painted as having never been very good.

[Steve How Hard?]

9 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Not a Chris Martin hater , I don't hate any players associated with Derby or any footballers in general at all to be honest. Just stating my opinion that he is declining rapidly. Not his fault because it happens with everyone. We all saw the decline of two of the best forwards in the world Torres and Falcao. It was the same with them, people tried to convince themselves and others that it was simply a case of bad form when it wasn't, it was the case that they weren't that good anymore. I don't want to see us going down the same road that teams did in both Torres and falcao and end up wasting time in the hope that Martin is going to back to the player he was because I am 95% sure he won't. If he does then fair play , I will have to take that humble pie but I very much doubt it, especially at his age.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. I think at 27/28 he has ample time to rediscover his form. The teams form has been patchy at best since the turn of the year which has contributed to his lack of form. A striker is only as good as the service he gets. 

[Mr Tibbs]

25 minutes ago, McLovin said:

especially at his age.

I don't get this argument. Since when has 28 been the age to show the end of someones career? Torres and Falcao are two very high profile players you chosen to pick but it's quite an even argument. For every Torres there's a Vardy establishing himself at 28 in the Premier League, for Falcao a Kevin Davies getting his first international cap at 33. 

If he can find form in a team that can play to his strengths there's no reason why he can't get back to the levels he was at 12+ ago, age certainly not going to hinder him, he's got no pace to lose!

[brady1993]

39 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Not a Chris Martin hater , I don't hate any players associated with Derby or any footballers in general at all to be honest. Just stating my opinion that he is declining rapidly. Not his fault because it happens with everyone. We all saw the decline of two of the best forwards in the world Torres and Falcao. It was the same with them, people tried to convince themselves and others that it was simply a case of bad form when it wasn't, it was the case that they weren't that good anymore. I don't want to see us going down the same road that teams did in both Torres and falcao and end up wasting time in the hope that Martin is going to back to the player he was because I am 95% sure he won't. If he does then fair play , I will have to take that humble pie but I very much doubt it, especially at his age.

I disagree entirely but I just wanted to say this a far more well laid-out, understandable stance than most take about Martin. I have two questions though:

A) Do you think Martin is not better backup than the likes of Bent, Blackman and Wilson ?

B) If Martin is past it, do you think we should go out and buy a striker who can genuinely get involved in the play like Martin has done previously ?

[Sexydadbod]

12 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

I don't get this argument. Since when has 28 been the age to show the end of someones career? Torres and Falcao are two very high profile players you chosen to pick but it's quite an even argument. For every Torres there's a Vardy establishing himself at 28 in the Premier League, for Falcao a Kevin Davies getting his first international cap at 33. 

If he can find form in a team that can play to his strengths there's no reason why he can't get back to the levels he was at 12+ ago, age certainly not going to hinder him, he's got no pace to lose!

The likes of Davies and Vardy weren't declining though, they were getting better with age unlike Martin who simply isn't the same player. I stated this previously, he is nearly 28 but in footballing terms he is in his thirties because of his poor fitness, not necessarily his fault though because genetics plays a huge part.  Rooney's exactly the same, he is 30 but in footballing terms he is about 35 which is why he is struggling a lot more than other plays his age. Whilst some may think it was a good thing that Martin came a few weeks early into a pre season as it showed motivation, the fact that he had to come that early tells me that he knows himself he is coming to the end of his career in terms of peak performances so had to do the extra work that he has never previously done in order to sustain a reasonable physical condition. On the last part, Fulham are playing exactly his strengths and have quick runners up and around him but he has still looked terrible. Even last season when Wassall came in he didn't look like the player he was a few years before. Of course he had the odd good game like against Hull in the 4-0 win but these good performances will slowly start becoming less frequent as he gets older.

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

The likes of Davies and Vardy weren't declining though, they were getting better with age

nah, not having that. Davies didn't score for a long time whilst at Blackburn and then I think Southampton, and only when he got to Bolton did he find his feet. As for Vardy, it was down to the team playing his way. He couldn't get into the Leicester side not long ago.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Whilst some may think it was a good thing that Martin came a few weeks early into a pre season as it showed motivation,

He said that his physique meant he needed to! Didn't have to though.

PS Shane Long at Reading 20 games without a goal - end of his career? Apparently not! 

[Sexydadbod]

10 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I disagree entirely but I just wanted to say this a far more well laid-out, understandable stance than most take about Martin. I have two questions though:

A) Do you think Martin is not better backup than the likes of Bent, Blackman and Wilson ?

B) If Martin is past it, do you think we should go out and buy a striker who can genuinely get involved in the play like Martin has done previously ?

A) Yes he is a better backup than the players you listed but it would possibly be bad for morale as the players you listed are more than happy to sit on the bench unlike Martin who wants to start every game. That probably says more about those players though than Martin

B) Yes I do, even when Martin was here last season his hold-up play was awful, he would fall over and lose it if a defender got touch tight which isn't what you need your target link up man to do. I wanted Ulloa in the summer, unrealistic but someone who is good at hold-up play and can run the channels to take the pressure off the back 4 and midfielders. If Clayton Donaldson was more prolific and a few years younger  then I'd suggest someone like him as he is the type of player we would need to looking at if Martin left permanently to fulfil the classical number 9 role.

[Ellafella]

Yes. In an instant.

[Sexydadbod]

One thing we can all agree on though is that this is one of those debates that you aren't going to win over "the other side" no matter how convincing the arguments on the other side are. It's like with Brexit, you weren't going to persuade ukipers to vote to stay in as their minds were firmly made up.