Player power strikes again

[toddy]

49 minutes ago, curtains said:

Closed shop 

Thought you meant clothes shop, oh suits you sir, yes suits you........

[nottingram]

11 minutes ago, jono said:

Up to a point maybe, but if you are a Gardner then you get mud under your fingernails. If you are professional football player then the crowd yell at you for better or worse. Certain things go with the territory. Ok that doesn't include your line manager doing something out of order,  but out on the pitch .... or from the press .. That is part of your life. 

I accept that but the original point made by the poster implied that because the players have gone to Mel they don't have thick enough skin relative to money earned. 

I was just pointing out that money earned has no impact on the 'thickness of skin' and if they are unhappy with their treatment by the manager they take it a step higher

[Bris Vegas]

44 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Depends if that's what he said he would do when he was interviewed for the job. If he did would you then sack him before you had chance to see if in the long term it would work?

It was no surprise to me the tactics employed by NP, and I didn't even have the added advantage of sitting down and discussing his visions.

I doubt Pearson walked into the interview and told Mel Morris that his aim was us to play turgid defensive football which results in an average of about one goal every three games.

Every manager wants to play winning football and most will aim to do it in a manner which entertains. But there is a big difference between talking a good game and actually providing one.

Pearson most certainly wasn't aiming for his Derby side to play such turgid rubbish, but the same can also be said of Paul Jewell and Phil Brown. 

How long before you realise something just doesn't fit? Is nine games really fair? Is 20 games? 100 games? A lot depends from the starting position and immediate targets.

Clough was given time by most because he took over a heap of rubbish. Pearson in contrast took over a promotion-chasing side and immediately turned them into a bottom six side.

He evidently wasn't the right fit from the very beginning, and a fair number of us pointed that out.

 

[PodgeyRam]

If you feel that your manager is overstepping the line and being abusive to you, you take it up with human resources or his boss. That is true for every workplace on the planet and it is exaclty what the players seem to have done. We don't know the specifics - who they were, whether they were speaking for the whole squad or what Pearson has specifically done.

However, if you have managed to alienate at least 1/3rd of your workforce and have a team that finished 5th the previous season in the relegation places, then you must be pretty rubbish at the actual managing aspect of the job.

It has made me respect these players even more, it shows they have enough self respect not to stand around idley whilst the manager wastes what short time they have in a short career.

And please, these guys are professionals. They've been shouted at by near enough every manager they have worked under. Even Wassall shouted at these players. I think they know the difference between a well deserved rollicking and an over the top rant.

[Lokidoki]

1 minute ago, PodgeyRam said:

you take it up with human resources or his boss

Surely that is Sam and not Mel? The point I made ages ago.

If the players do not have a management layer as a buffer, you may as well get rid of HR and that may be part of the issue if this sorry tale is true.

[ariotofmyown]

4 hours ago, YouRams said:

We live in a sad world freedom of speech is no more 

Yeah, you can't even make up stories about well known people anymore, then type them out on internet forums where anyone can read them, repeat them and allow them to become fact.

[Sparkle]

8 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The DET have an "update" that says theres not going to be anything this week. 

Suggests to me that either, the situation is "complicated", or the situation is clear, but the ramifications (no pun intended) are going to need working out/handling. 

Unless its as simple as they need input from people away on international duty? (Skype?)

I would be expecting an independent investigation due to the involvement of MM before any disciplinary situation occurs again probably being independent all this takes time. 

[PodgeyRam]

19 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

Surely that is Sam and not Mel? The point I made ages ago.

If the players do not have a management layer as a buffer, you may as well get rid of HR and that may be part of the issue if this sorry tale is true.

From what I understand, Pearson answers to Mel, not Sam, meaning you take it up with Mel.

Beside's, that's what they might have done and Rush said they'd need to meet with Mel to sort it out.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Sparkle said:

I would be expecting an independent investigation due to the involvement of MM before any disciplinary situation occurs again probably being independent all this takes time. 

"Internal investigation" is what's been stated by the club, it's conceivable the from Pearson's corner it's been argued that "internal" might not be objective enough? I have no knowledge of how these things work TBH.

[Sparkle]

42 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

"Internal investigation" is what's been stated by the club, it's conceivable the from Pearson's corner it's been argued that "internal" might not be objective enough? I have no knowledge of how these things work TBH.

Internal is fair enough so long as it is correctly independent 

[TETRA]

You know I was thinking last night, a bright producer at the BBC, ITV, or even Channel 4, could make a wonderful Drama Series about the goings on at Derby County FC since Nigel Clough was sacked.

Loads of story subjects to choose from, & a very interesting list of characters not forgetting the drones. Combine all  that with a "Who Done It", & you could have a new Dallas in the making. But what shall we call it I hear you ask ?.

SILLY ME " The Derby Way " of course.

[bcnram]

3 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

"Internal investigation" is what's been stated by the club, it's conceivable the from Pearson's corner it's been argued that "internal" might not be objective enough? I have no knowledge of how these things work TBH.

There will already be a procedure written down for disciplinary matters within the club and that is what they should use. 

[YouRams]

8 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Yeah, you can't even make up stories about well known people anymore, then type them out on internet forums where anyone can read them, repeat them and allow them to become fact.

More of a teller than a maker myself, glad you agree though, tough times with all the censorship and feelings about. 

[Stive Pesley]

I dont get all this anger towards the players for allegedly going to Mel

If you were part of a successful team, and then you got a new boss who came in and told you that he was going to do things differently to drive even more success, then you'd get on board and give it your best.

If after 3 months it wasn't just not working out, but was actually a complete disaster, and the new manager was turning round and  blaming you for it then why wouldn't you put in a complaint to the owner of your company?

I think that shows that they care about the fans, playing for the shirt and want to win games for themselves, the fans, and the one guy who is bankrolling it all.

Would you rather they'd just kept quiet, sucked it up and still been bottom 3 at christmas? Then what?

[nottingram]

11 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

I dont get all this anger towards the players for allegedly going to Mel

If you were part of a successful team, and then you got a new boss who came in and told you that he was going to do things differently to drive even more success, then you'd get on board and give it your best.

If after 3 months it wasn't just not working out, but was actually a complete disaster, and the new manager was turning round and  blaming you for it then why wouldn't you put in a complaint to the owner of your company?

I think that shows that they care about the fans, playing for the shirt and want to win games for themselves, the fans, and the one guy who is bankrolling it all.

Would you rather they'd just kept quiet, sucked it up and still been bottom 3 at christmas? Then what?

Yes but they're earning £20000 per week so they actually should just not get upset when they are blamed for things out their control 

[YouRams]

23 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

I dont get all this anger towards the players for allegedly going to Mel

If you were part of a successful team, and then you got a new boss who came in and told you that he was going to do things differently to drive even more success, then you'd get on board and give it your best.

If after 3 months it wasn't just not working out, but was actually a complete disaster, and the new manager was turning round and  blaming you for it then why wouldn't you put in a complaint to the owner of your company?

I think that shows that they care about the fans, playing for the shirt and want to win games for themselves, the fans, and the one guy who is bankrolling it all.

Would you rather they'd just kept quiet, sucked it up and still been bottom 3 at christmas? Then what?

If your idea of a succesful team is one that finished 8th followed by a £25m+ team losing out on promotion to Hull, Boro and bloody Burnley I envy your expectation levels.

[Stive Pesley]

17 minutes ago, YouRams said:

If your idea of a succesful team is one that finished 8th followed by a £25m+ team losing out on promotion to Hull, Boro and bloody Burnley I envy your expectation levels.

I meant comparative to the same team being in the bottom 3 purely because the manager has failed to coach them into his new style (or failed to buy new players that facilitate the new style)

This team has been in the top 6 almost constanty for the past 3 seasons. What changed?

[Tamworthram]

12 hours ago, nottingram said:

How much you're paid has very little correlation with how thick your skin is and to claim otherwise is bizarre.

Totally agree. Everyone is entitled to be treated with some respect regardless of the type of job they do and the amount they earn.

I wonder if some of the posts on this thread are driven by envy? Many of us would love to be paid tens of thousands each week to play a game we'd happily play for free on a freezing cold and wet Sunday morning. 

[YouRams]

16 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

I meant comparative to the same team being in the bottom 3 purely because the manager has failed to coach them into his new style (or failed to buy new players that facilitate the new style)

This team has been in the top 6 almost constanty for the past 3 seasons. What changed?

They've been found out? Other teams spending money closing the gap on us? Personally think we missed our best chances of getting out this league the past few seasons, hope I'm wrong. 

[Anag Ram]

I still think that there's a soft underbelly in the current squad that no manager could transform, from the goalkeeper that never comes for crosses, through the captain that throws his arms in the air every time he's pushed, two full backs happier in attack than defence and a succession of forwards who wait for things to happen.

Burnley, Hull et al have grafters who make it hard for the opposition. We need a stronger leader on the pitch, proper defenders and a proven goalscorer.

Let's stop spending £20m on four £5m  run of the mill players and buy two £10m winners.