Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, cannable said: There's a case we did about some pretty famous Russian guy, can't remember his name, Gorbachev? Anyway, he won a case as the defendant couldn't prove that they were telling the truth. Many years later it turned out they were! It's not about whether something is true or not, it's about whether you can prove that it's true. But he didn't state it was true? He quoted the story and was adding his opinion on what was being implied by the newspaper. If that's the case (I haven't got a clue) that he could be sued for that, then I'd better stop posting (cheers by some) as my only comments are based upon somebody else's opinion/side of the story, as I have no inside knowledge to do otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, Coconut said: How do you know they went straight to MM? Maybe Pearson had overstepped the mark on a number of occasions prior to them going to MM? Perhaps rather than this repeated idea that they aren't capable of handling criticism and complain whenever shouted at, they've had 4 months of abuse and finally had to take action? We just don't know. That's what I'm saying we don't know, its all newspaper rumours What you've written there is indeed a possible scenario, I was just making a logical guess at what happened, TBH I'm glad Pearson has gone, it didn't look like the players wanted to play for him- and there could be various reasons for that but like you say no one outside the club or people with reliable sources truely know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Err cause he wants to be the manager of Derby county and believes he can do the job ? If he did nt and deos nt then he would be making it clear he does nt want the job full time ,a bit like carsely did when he took over short term at Brentford ,,, now whether you think he s ok to do that is up to you ,all I can tell you is that if I was very close friends with someone who appointed me as their assistant manager and felt loyalty towards them ,so much so that I gave a seemingly very emotional interview regarding their plight I would not be up for taking the job they had been suspended from if they then were dismissed ,,, now you can think me a liar or you can call me a mug but I can honestly tell you that is 100 percent how I would react ,,, I've been on many jobs for builders where the client has sacked the builder and offered me the job to complete and I have never taken it no matter how bad the builder was ,he gave me the work , I do my stuff properly but will not take his place ,, that's just the way I see it ,, cost me a few bob over the years but I can look at myself in the mirror and that's priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 28 minutes ago, sage said: The 'if true' section only refers to the Pearson situation M'lud. The accused only used this caveat to add to the alleged involvement in the Clement sacking, clearly suggesting that that is a given. ie fact. So what isn't the difference to say this, and your post recently that said Idiakez had resigned, that was based solely on your take off a story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: I specifically addressed that... Unless you're struggling with the context? Last season Mourinho was HORRIBLE for Chelsea... And they sacked him... He was a bad manager last season for them... Bilic had a wonderful season with West Ham last year... But this season is going poorly so far... hence at this time he is a bad manager... Pearson took Leicester into the Premier League but has been horrible for us... Good or Bad overall is not the issue... Good or Bad for us is... As far as I'm concerned Pearson has the same legacy as Paul Jewell or Phil Brown... Good for someone else, bad for us... They don't become bad managers over night, Chelsea had a bout of player power [for those that think it does not happen] and West Ham are suffering from confidence [a team 4 pts of champions league last season to 3rd bottom this season]. Bad managers my arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said: So what isn't the difference to say this, and your post recently that said Idiakez had resigned, that was based solely on your take off a story? Good point. My post may well be incorrect. However there is no defamation. Even if he took offence, then a legal case is unlikely. I could offer an apology. However as the club statement was just that he left I would expect my lawyer to argue that this was a reasonable assumption and was without malice. However, stating that a group of people conspired to get a colleague sacked could be construed as malicious if untrue as it defames the character of those players. It could also seen to be prejudicing a potential future legal appeal by any other managers who could claim to have been forced out and cite this as evidence. Like all law it is an opinion based on law and precedent. near the bottom of the league, However, the general point was... when debating you should ideally have some evidence to support your point. ie I think NP has been a poor manager for Derby as he left us near the bottom of the league, or I think NP has an history of rash behaviour as evidenced by arguing with journalists, lightly throttling players and telling a fan to 'eff off and die' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 51 minutes ago, sage said: You still haven't made a point but I will go along with it for sh1ts and giggles. I have not criticised Bradley Johnson. I have criticised his ability, his suitability to our team and his recruitment. Generally I don't think he has been worthy of a place in the team, however as we are currently missing the physicality of Forsyth, Martin and Thorne there is a good reason for his current inclusion. Reports have been that he hasn't played particularly well and appeared to lose his man for the equaliser at Reading, but i can see the merit in his inclusion in the current available squad. I have made a similar point in the past. Can I point that I didn't sign him, drop him, re-select him or paint his back bedroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 17 minutes ago, Coconut said: How do you know they went straight to MM? Maybe Pearson had overstepped the mark on a number of occasions prior to them going to MM? Perhaps rather than this repeated idea that they aren't capable of handling criticism and complain whenever shouted at, they've had 4 months of abuse and finally had to take action? We just don't know. Not sure that stacks up against the interview Carson gave recently in which he said that Pearson had given them some home truths but stated that it was pretty much a first and not the way Pearson had handled things before although he was probably within his rights to give them some stick,,,,, he made it pretty clear that up until that time Pearson had been very supportive and arm round type of style ,,, it's on ramsplayer ,, check it out ,,, got the impression that Carson took it like a grown up old school type footballer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, sage said: Good point. My post may well be incorrect. However there is no defamation. Even if he took offence, then a legal case is unlikely. I could offer an apology. However as the club statement was just that he left I would expect my lawyer to argue that this was a reasonable assumption and was without malice. However, stating that a group of people conspired to get a colleague sacked could be construed as malicious if untrue as it defames the character of those players. It could also seen to be prejudicing a potential future legal appeal by any other managers who could claim to have been forced out and cite this as evidence. Like all law it is an opinion based on law and precedent. near the bottom of the league, However, the general point was... when debating you should ideally have some evidence to support your point. ie I think NP has been a poor manager for Derby as he left us near the bottom of the league, or I think NP has an history of rash behaviour as evidenced by arguing with journalists, lightly throttling players and telling a fan to 'eff off and die' Not once claimed they "conspired" my opinion is their reported actions lead to the sacking. What's with all this legal ***** anyway half the posters on this forum are in trouble if I'm out of line with my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 1 hour ago, sage said: Generally in life it's a good idea to back up an idea or opinion with fact or evidence. Absolutely. The voice of reason (on this ). This, in my view, is what has gone wrong with society (slight exageration/hyperbole but the point is I recognise its exageration/hyperbole and thats what matters). Too many people equate the over-used mantra of "I'm entitled to an opinion" with "My opinion is of equal or greater value to everybody else's opinion" or "It doesn't matter that I can't substantiate my opinion with fact or evidence, as it is now in the ether it has become a fact/matter worthy of debate". This isn't helped when the media treat opinion as news (see a lot of DET stories) or devote hours of air time to things like twitter which physically preclude people from making considered, rational and reasoned arguments. Radio Derby, I'm looking at you!! In terms of this forum, for example, aren't posts which say things like 'we didn't play well today. I think CM was too isolated from the wingers and central midfielders to be able to play to his strengths' (i.e. arguably negative, but considered) better than 'CM is a fat, lazy, spoiled b'stard who has been causing a split in the dressing room and thats why we lost today' (i.e.negative, reactionary and unsubstantiated comments, which winds people up)?. This is also not to say that reasoned arguments are always worthy - see anything written by BrisVegas - but at least they can engender some form of sensible debate. You can't really get sued for any of what I've put there though, so I think I've wandered down an irrelevant tangent somewhere. Oops. For what it is worth, my opinion on the invalidity of unsubstantiated opinion is substantiated and vaildated by the worthlessness of every single comment made on or in any DET story. Now, I realise that this comment has nothing to do with the discussion, and is not aimed at the person you were responding too, and I know I've quoted you slighlty out of context, but as a quote it sums up my feelings and I wanted to get it off my chest. Apologies. I've had a long day. As you were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Just now, sage said: Good point. My post may well be incorrect. However there is no defamation. Even if he took offence, then a legal case is unlikely. I could offer an apology. However as the club statement was just that he left I would expect my lawyer to argue that this was a reasonable assumption and was without malice. However, stating that a group of people conspired to get a colleague sacked could be construed as malicious if untrue as it defames the character of those players. It could also seen to be prejudicing a potential future legal appeal by any other managers who could claim to have been forced out and cite this as evidence. Like all law it is an opinion based on law and precedent. near the bottom of the league, However, the general point was... when debating you should ideally have some evidence to support your point. ie I think NP has been a poor manager for Derby as he left us near the bottom of the league, or I think NP has an history of rash behaviour as evidenced by arguing with journalists, throttling players and telling a fan to 'eff off and die' I'm not disagreeing with you, as I haven't got a clue and haven't got the intellect to do that. However it seems to me (and once again I may be wrong) that had the poster said the blame was all NPs then there would have been none of this libellous talk. I believe it was you who recently stated the dressing room was toxic, and that although you didn't have evidence to back this up, that's what a forum was for, to discuss things like this (Once again I'm probably wrong and it wasn't you!!). It would be nice if we go on a long winning run, one way to put all this behind us is to be in the papers for the right reasons, what's happening on the field, and I do believe that both the players and Morris are trying everything to make this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, YouRams said: Not once claimed they "conspired" my opinion is their reported actions lead to the sacking. What's with all this legal ***** anyway half the posters on this forum are in trouble if I'm out of line with my posts. I was specifically asked by Leeds Ram. In my OP the legal stuff was an aside. I was more concerned with my general point about backing opinion up with evidence. That was also not specific to you. You still haven't answered my Refeshers comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, sage said: I was specifically asked by Leeds Ram. In my OP the legal stuff was an aside. I was more concerned with my general point about backing opinion up with evidence. That was also not specific to you. You still haven't answered my Refeshers comment. Fair do's. Inflation has them up about 40p a pack, that pesky Freddo's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 8 hours ago, mwram1973 said: What I can't understand, if the player rumours are true. Pearson is known for his players loving working for him. At leic and Hull, both squads loved him. How come our lot hate him then. IF true, I think it says a hell of a lot more about our players than NP. Not sticking up for him BTW, If he's tried to come to blows with MM then he should go. I'm more worried about our pappy arsed players. Maybe, just maybe, because he was setting them up to fail with the system he was employing in matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, YouRams said: Fair do's. Inflation has them up about 40p a pack, that pesky Freddo's fault. Can i offer 30p and another 10p based on performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, archied said: Not sure that stacks up against the interview Carson gave recently in which he said that Pearson had given them some home truths but stated that it was pretty much a first and not the way Pearson had handled things before although he was probably within his rights to give them some stick,,,,, he made it pretty clear that up until that time Pearson had been very supportive and arm round type of style ,,, it's on ramsplayer ,, check it out ,,, got the impression that Carson took it like a grown up old school type footballer I thought I remembered Carson saying Pearson hadn't been 'old school' tough with them and maybe that was needed? Couldn't remember where the interview was. So all these posters saying that the players don't like it up 'em are totally wrong - Pearson has been a big softy! Lol. No wonder Mel wants rid, that's not what he was employed for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I thought I remembered Carson saying Pearson hadn't been 'old school' tough with them and maybe that was needed? Couldn't remember where the interview was. So all these posters saying that the players don't like it up 'em are totally wrong - Pearson has been a big softy! Lol. No wonder Mel wants rid, that's not what he was employed for! I did cross my mind whether Pearson may not be quite the same at Derby in terms of trying to be less confrontational media wise in protecting his players and perhaps he lost a bit of his appeal to the players in terms of perhaps trying to be something he s not and came across to the players as a bit fake ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Couple of points a colleague of mine had a conversation with a player who stated that NP had been supportive and secondly if seven players complained five didn't so a split in the ranks there .We're fooked, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Seemed happy after Preston away win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, King Kevin said: Couple of points a colleague of mine had a conversation with a player who stated that NP had been supportive and secondly if seven players complained five didn't so a split in the ranks there .We're fooked, The report is that 7 went to Mel, weather they spoke for the whole squad or just themselves is not known, we don't even know how true the story in the sun is, so it's not direct evidence the squad is split. I can imagine the players who were getting more of a look in under Pearson might have less up for going to the top, but that's just my imagining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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