Good footballers can adapt

[mrdave85]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why, what signs in 8 games (& preseason) have you seen of Pearson adapting?!

In preseason and 8 games I think Pearson is still imposing how he wants the squad to play. I believe he has a plan and playing style which he believes will get the club promotion. He has adapted by selling/loaning the players he doesn't believe fit that style (minus Hendrick & Grant I think), and bringing in available players he believes will.

So far Vydra, Anya and Wilson haven't performed, how high up the target list were they? Did Pearson think we'd never get another proven championship scorer in with Martin still here? Would Martin have coped not being the main man upfront anymore? I don't know the answers to these questions, but considering how long it took to get Vydra and Anya in I don't think they were choices 1 & 2.  

I think Mel said this whole "Derby way" as what he thought would be a lovely soundbite, which will now be forever hung round the club's neck while he's owner. The squad, and in the way, the club will have to adapt to the manager, not the other way around. 

If we're to bring in managers who have to play how MM sees fit and turf them out otherwise, we will struggle. SM's football was great to watch, but it hasn't got us promoted. Dice rolled, Pearson is here, he needs the time to change how this squad plays their football. IMO it will take more than 4 months to go from what they've been doing for 3 years to NP's style. 

[BarrowRam]

If players can't adapt and only want to play one system they shouldn't  be professional footballers. Football is not rocket science. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

What we should notice tomorrow is that our pacey players had a week off so hopefully they should come out of the blocks flying.

I can't wait for tomorrow, I just feel we are going to tonk them.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

3 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Please can they adapt to winning? 

Quickly 

[Day]

14 minutes ago, CHCDerby said:

What we should notice tomorrow is that our pacey players had a week off so hopefully they should come out of the blocks flying.

Goals have been an issue this season, that is obvious, but it is worth remembering what appears to be our new strike partnership has only had an hour together in each of our last 3 games, not only that but both are new to the squad.

v Bristol City 60 minutes
v Ipswich 64 minutes
v Newcastle 65 minutes

This isn't enough those telepathic juices to be flowing between the pair, not saying it can't instantly click like Yorke and Cole but very rarely do you see a partnership hit it off like that instantly.

Would be nice to see them both given the full 90 on Saturday if this is the way forward, more game time together the quicker we may see the best out the pair.

[cannable]

42 minutes ago, BarrowRam said:

If players can't adapt and only want to play one system they shouldn't  be professional footballers. Football is not rocket science. 

It's not about individuals playing in one system, it's about the squad. If it has been built to play one way then most of those individuals will suit that style of play, will balance that style of play and ideally cover each others strengths and weaknesses. 

Everyone of our players could play in another system but they'd still need to be in a balanced side. 

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, mrdave85 said:

In preseason and 8 games I think Pearson is still imposing how he wants the squad to play. I believe he has a plan and playing style which he believes will get the club promotion.

He has adapted by selling/loaning the players he doesn't believe fit that style (minus Hendrick & Grant I think), and bringing in available players he believes will.

That's not a definition of 'adapting' I'd recognise. Basically the squad adapt or Pearson sells? That's gonna cost lots of dosh then if how they've adapted so far is anything to go on (that and how well they adapted to Clement)...

[mrdave85]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That's not a definition of 'adapting' I'd recognise. Basically the squad adapt or Pearson sells? That's gonna cost lots of dosh then if how they've adapted so far is anything to go on (that and how well they adapted to Clement)...

You asked in 8 games, I gave some answer of he adapted, but really I don't think Pearson should have to.

The squad should adapt to his style. A whole squad of professional footballers who can only play 4-3-3? That's ludicrous. 

[nottingram]

I think good managers should be able to adapt as well, shame we don't have one of those.

[Gary Teale]

Im amzed 

2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

You asked in 8 games, I gave some answer of he adapted, but really I don't think Pearson should have to.

The squad should adapt to his style. A whole squad of professional footballers who can only play 4-3-3? That's ludicrous. 

Exactly im pretty sure they all made it as pro footballers as at some stage they played in a side that played 442. Its only been the most common way to play of the last 50 years

[eddie]

2 hours ago, 86 points said:

@David good thing it's your forum mate.  Posting that kind of reasoned thinking would have some frothing like a macchiato by now were it anyone else.

Macchiato? This is a football forum - they would be frothing like a badly-pulled pint of Carling - or in my case, a well-poured bottle of Boon Gueuze Mariage Parfait.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Was Pearson playing 4-3-3 with Hughes holding a couple of matches with a bit of a "OK, told you, they're still playing like rubbish" befre going back to 4-4-2 as if to prove a point.

Anyway, I think as much as the formation, I think they are having to adapt to a disciplined team that works a certain way - a McClaren/Wassall attempt at 4-4-2 wouldn't be the same as this one.  Once they get there I think they'll be OK, at the moment the discipline is holding them back, in time it'll help them.

[Inglorius]

By implication then we don't have many good footballers at the club 

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

By implication then we don't have many good footballers at the club 

I think that's what Pearson is building up to saying.

[lrm14]

Good footballers can adapt, good managers always adapt.

Good managers work with what they have, they don't try to shoehorn players into roles and systems they're not used to nor adept at playing.

 

Also for those saying that everyone played 4-4-2 in some period in the careers, yes you're right they probably did and i'm almost certain every midfielder in our team can play it. The issue is that they've all played 4-4-2 as the attacking minded midfielder rather than the defensive minded one, so our midfield is extremely unbalanced with any of them in the park. It's also a moot point that ignores the fact that our midfielders like Hughes or Thorne are just straight up better and much more suited to playing a 3 man midfield. It's like saying Iniesta or Busquets can play in a 2 man midfield so there's no excuse, when clearly the manager should be playing them in a 3 because they thrive there, it's common sense.

[Raminphilippines]

I feel they have adapted very well, they had 3 season scoring goals and apart from 2 mistakes they have adapted very well to a system of not scoring.

[Highgate]

3 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Good footballers can adapt, good managers always adapt.

Good managers work with what they have, they don't try to shoehorn players into roles and systems they're not used to nor adept at playing.

Good point, however with certain established managers, we can identify a style they tend to stick to throughout their careers.  Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola for example. Their teams play a certain way that didn't or doesn't appear to change too much regardless of the players at their disposal.  Needless to say they bring players into the club that they think will fit and remove those that don't.  So it's not unusual for managers to have a style of play that they want their teams to play.   Good players might be able to adapt, but some may never be suitable.

My worry is whether bringing a manager in, who likes to have his teams play in a certain way, to manage Derby whose players were used to playing a different way, wasn't a good idea in the first place. And until Pearson acquires more players that suit his system, there will be a lot of 'shoehorning' of players going on.  Also I worry that a 'Walshless' Pearson isn't the manager we think he is.  Time will tell I suppose.  That's if Mel has the patience, which hasn't been his strongest virtue in the past. 

[cannable]

55 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

You asked in 8 games, I gave some answer of he adapted, but really I don't think Pearson should have to.

The squad should adapt to his style. A whole squad of professional footballers who can only play 4-3-3? That's ludicrous. 

You're right. That is ludicrous.

But a squad who has been built in such a way that sees most of their strengths and weaknesses being covered by a teammate in a certain system… not ludicrous. 

[cheron85]

41 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Good footballers can adapt, good managers always adapt.

Good managers work with what they have, they don't try to shoehorn players into roles and systems they're not used to nor adept at playing.

I was going to say I was reading a BBC article about how Conte is doing that at Chelsea:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37433023

But then this:

20 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Good point, however with certain established managers, we can identify a style they tend to stick to throughout their careers.  Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola for example. Their teams play a certain way that didn't or doesn't appear to change too much regardless of the players at their disposal. 

Ferguson played the same "flat back 4 with a CB in CM to cover" the entire time he was an Man Utd and proved that even with a fairly talentless bunch at the end he could still win that way...

28 minutes ago, Raminphilippines said:

I feel they have adapted very well, they had 3 season scoring goals and apart from 2 mistakes they have adapted very well to a system of not scoring.

This however ALL of the LOLS

[lrm14]

1 hour ago, emjlc02 said:

39 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Good point, however with certain established managers, we can identify a style they tend to stick to throughout their careers.  Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp, Guardiola for example. Their teams play a certain way that didn't or doesn't appear to change too much regardless of the players at their disposal.  Needless to say they bring players into the club that they think will fit and remove those that don't.  So it's not unusual for managers to have a style of play that they want their teams to play.   Good players might be able to adapt, but some may never be suitable.

My worry is whether bringing a manager in, who likes to have his teams play in a certain way, to manage Derby whose players were used to playing a different way, wasn't a good idea in the first place. And until Pearson acquires more players that suit his system, there will be a lot of 'shoehorning' of players going on.  Also I worry that a 'Walshless' Pearson isn't the manager we think he is.  Time will tell I suppose.  That's if Mel has the patience, which hasn't been his strongest virtue in the past. 

 

I agree that managers have a style that they like to stick to but they also adapt and change dramatically based on the squad they have. Wenger is a very attacking, stylish type of manager but he has changed how he achieved this with every different squad he had. The invincibles to the Fabregas era to RVP to Sanchez/Ozil, all those sides retained the style Wenger wanted but they played in different systems and formations. Klopp likes to press, everyone knows it, but Dortmund were focused a lot on countering with a 4-2-3-1 whereas Liverpool control games with a 4-3-3, both sides pressed crazily however. Guardiola loves to keep the ball all game, but he changed his formation and system almost every season at Barca and almost every game at Bayern based on their opponents and what he had at his disposal. 

The point I'm trying to get is that Pearson want's to press for a bit, get a goal then defend and hit teams on the break. Fine, even though I think our squad isn't built for that and is much more suited to controlling possession, if he wants to do it then ok. But he doesn't have to play 4-4-2 to achieve this, especially when he's got a squad with a midfield like ours. Wassall had us pressing very heavily against Hull, that's why he picked Weimann and Russell, why he can't give that a go is purely down to stubbornness.

I want him to succeed I really do, because in turn that means Derby will succeed. But at the moment he's making some very questionable decisions (another being signing a striker like Vydra who is known to only work with a target man, yet not replacing the target man we sold) and refusing to budge on them, which makes me question him. I agree with both your worries in the second paragraph, a 'Walshless' Pearson looks lost and I just don't think a manager with this style should have been appointed in the first place.

Edit - My quotes gone weird and it's made me sad.