Who remembers when....

[Millenniumram]

Indeed, our fans should be grateful for Mel, he's a genuine fan who's doing what any genuine fan would do if put in charge of their club, doing everything possible to get the team to the highest it can get. Some decisions he has made may have been mistakes, but who could have known that Bradley Johnson would fail, or Paul Clement would struggle for consistency? Certainly most fans were happy and I'm sure Mel was too, it's just how things work out. He may have employed the wrong people in terms of recruitment team and managers sometimes, but you can't fault his ambition. Instead of looking to the owner for our current failures, does it not make more sense to look at the manager who has taken one of the best teams in the league, particularly passing wise, down near the relegation goal with only one goal scored!

[BathRam72]

Nice one Mostyn. At last some sense

[Mostyn6]

9 hours ago, reveldevil said:

You could have just put this in the Mel Morris thread, it would have been just as powerful, @Mostyn6.

He was always on a hiding to nothing, I'm sure it won't be any skin off his nose what's said on a fan forum.

I could, but I think once a thread has annoyed people, they stay away from it, I wanted a fresh audience not just those still reading a thread that may have alienated half the forum.

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Like I said, his heart is in the right place, but decision-making by him and those employed by him have been fairly terrible so far.

Only a small % of clubs can claim to have made good decisions, and they are the FEW that achieve success, the rest is all subjective. Mel cannot be held responsible or criticised for Paul Clement's marriage collapsing can he? Most other decisions made will have again, a subjective response. I don't think giving Keogh a new contract was a good decision for example, but a large percentage would think it is a good decision.

8 hours ago, Archie said:

I don't see how a new thread was needed here, this would have followed on perfectly well from a post I made a few hours back.

I have the upmost respect for MM, he's a Derby fan first and foremost and I am pleased to have him on board. That doesn't mean he's immune from any criticism via debate and discussion on a fans forum however. This isn't North Korea afterall! Mostyn you list the turbulant times the club has gone through and I remember pretty much all of them - but this is very misleading in this context as it seems to suggest we have two choices. Either MM or one of those dark days as alternatives and therefore we should be thankful. This is untrue. When MM came in we were on a relatively healthy footing both on and off the pitch. The argument I'm inferring from most is not necessarily the lack of appreciation for investing but the road taken since his arrival and the departure from what was working very well leading up to the playoff final.

ı think we all agree that mistakes have been made, that's not the real issue for me, this happens in all walks of life. These mistakes though could be argued have put the club back years, for me back to when PJ was at the club. Some talented players mixed in with a bloated bunch of average at best players on very high salaries that are unable to perform in any preferred formation. I would really welcome anyone to debate the qualities that Bent, Blackman, Johnson, Camara, Butterfield, even Ince bring to our team on a consistent basis. I could list others. All these signings would have to be signed off with the owner. You could argue he was backing the manager at the time, if so, why sack him a month or two later? Why hire him in the first place?

Compared to some clubs we are in a sense lucky to have him with us but that doesn't mean concerns can't be aired. We are currently 5th bottom with one goal in seven league outings. A club with the size, history and traditions as ours should expect fans to be concerned in this context, it's not overreactionary nor ungrateful. I don't think there's a fan out there ready to bring out the Maxwell Out type banners for the next live game just yet, it's clear we are a long way away from that ever happening anytime soon.

I don't know what post you are referring to so I can only apologise for not linking this as a response. Let's be right here, criticism after 12months of ownership is borderline moronic, we are afterall, hoping for a long-term level of success, and just as quickly as things improved in 2013-14 on the pitch, and as quickly as they declined at the start of this season, there's nothing to suggest that it cannot be repeated as quickly with a piece of excellent leadership. All this drama is not necessary, we are in a blip. We surely would much rather have an abundance of under-performing players with ability than a load of cast-offs that have zero ability. It's not misleading to say "stop being an ungrateful whingeing git and show a bit of appreciation" because that IS the gist of things.

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Spot on. Frustrates me when people use extremes to make a point. 

I don't think  he has attracted any real venom from fans. People have concerns and in this day and age many ways of airing those concerns.. Like you said this is not North Korea... Suck it up and get on with it.

We should always question.. 

 

Question yes. Irrationally criticise and create drama... NO.

[WhiteHorseRam]

I agree with Mostyn6...

Peter Riddesdale once said that to make £10 million out of football you had to start with £20 million. He's not the example to follow, but there is some truth in his statement.

I vented my annoyance with some of the stupid things being said in the 'is it all MM's fault?' (or whatever it is called) thread yesterday.

Without him the £10 million we got for Hendrick would be what we would be basing all our hopes on going forward. A weak/mean consortium type ownership would mean our scouts would be grubbing around right now at Falkirk and Wrexham (no disrespect to them).

He has backed off since his public interventions last season, he supported Wassall by calling in Arry, he appointed a seasoned manager in NP and he has just shelled out again in the transfer window. What else can he do?

 

[dajstrawb]

The biggest mistake Mel and his top boys have made in my eyes is sacking Clement (who, let's face it, doesn't look that terrible now all of a sudden) to appoint Wassall and bang on about 'the Derby way' and how important it is (the Derby way, being the attacking style of exciting football we've seen so frequently over the last 4 years or so) only to appoint Nigel Pearson, who appears to be the complete polar opposite of 'the Derby way', making Clement'a sacking mostly pointless to start with

[mozza]

 

i'm so envious of  my lad , i wish i could 'bullet point'

• never mind , found it ..

[loweman2]

9 hours ago, Monkeytennis12345 said:

Some of our 'fans' should be very careful of what they wish for ..... Excellent post Mostyn. Either some of those hounding Mel have very short memories or they are too young to remember . Especially 1984! 

I remember it well, how many remember when Rotherham jumped in to play our players wages in that year ? And then along came Mike waterson !! 

Some of the fickle fans today have no idea what we went through in those dark days.

http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/peter-taylor-s-miracle-turned-ashes-penniless/story-20507436-detail/story.html 

[Tamworthram]

11 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

• Derby County nearly ceased as a club in around 1984, only to be rescued at the "11th hour" by Stuart Webb and co.
• Derby County owner Robert Maxwell agreed to leave Derby but only after we got relegated and he pocketed the cash from selling Wright and Saunders to Liverpool
• Pickering had bankrupted himself and the club nearly ended up being bought out by a consortium involving SISU (Coventry) and (ex Bradford chairman) Geoffrey Richmond?.
• The 3 Amigos buying the club for a pound each, giving Huddlestone to Spurs in exchange for magic beans, then selling Rasiak after the Championship deadline had passed, leaving Phil Brown to play Stern John up front!
• Fans throwing t-shirts onto the pitch during the QPR game and chanting "where's the money gone?" to GSE.

It amazes me reading what I am reading about Mel Morris at the moment. IGNORANT Derby fans who spent as long as they remember praying for an owner like Mel, only to sling **** in his direction for putting his money where his mouth is. Read the above and remember harsher times, look around the rest of the country. Look at other Midlands club. Villa - relegated after trying to oust Lerner. Birmingham - owner in prison. West Brom - no investment in the team, doomed. Forest - WOW, cuckoooooo. Wolves - spending stupidly but the novelty will wear off very soon. There's only Leicester and they're an exception to the rule.

Mel's intentions have been very good. I clashed with him at Breakfast club, and I am in no way influenced by a pigless breakfast, but, and it's a but... HIS ideas were bang on. I just feel the fan backlash/reaction to a) Wassall and b) The Derby Way, have influenced him and maybe rocked his conviction in the cause, which is worrying,

Derby fans need to be very careful what they wish for, cos over the past few years, this club has been plagued by self-fulfilling prophecies

• What happens if Martin gets injured?... then it happened
• How will we cope if Thorne gets injured?.... then it happened
• McClaren will leave and go to Newcastle? ..... six months later, he's sacked and goes there.

About time Derby fans started showing some loyalty and love back to a bloke who deserves some respect, and ultimately, we cannot force out of the club.

He knows, he's not stupid. Mel admitted to us there were things he'd have done differently .... in hindsight.

But it's disgusting to treat him as if he's been worse than any of our owners when reality is, he's been the best in my lifetime.

Well said that man. 

[Mostyn6]

31 minutes ago, dajstrawb said:

The biggest mistake Mel and his top boys have made in my eyes is sacking Clement (who, let's face it, doesn't look that terrible now all of a sudden) to appoint Wassall and bang on about 'the Derby way' and how important it is (the Derby way, being the attacking style of exciting football we've seen so frequently over the last 4 years or so) only to appoint Nigel Pearson, who appears to be the complete polar opposite of 'the Derby way', making Clement'a sacking mostly pointless to start with

maybe Mel was protecting Clement by giving a complex reason for the sacking.

He could hardly say "Paul's personal circumstances changed in direct correlation with the collapse in results, I feel his personal life was affecting the club...."

[Wolfie20]

Totally agree with the supportive comments for MM but not at all surprised that some haven't been able to resist getting their digs in on Keogh, Clement , Pearson etc. etc. If they've made their views known once they've made them a hundred times and that's fine but why try and regurgitate into every new post?

[Seth's left foot]

34 minutes ago, RFK said:

What's this obsession with him being a fan? I want a good owner, not a fan. Fans aren't exactly renowned for their rational thought and calm decision making.

Because I am confident that he won't try and change our name, fleece us, flood the squad with foreign players or any other of the horror stories from Leeds, Hull etc. 

Did Cellino at Leeds give out scarves and drinks?

He has Sam Rush there to stop him ruling with his heart rather than his head.

we have a great owner, it annoys me when the hindsight police jump on him.

[cannable]

1 hour ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

A weak/mean consortium type ownership would mean our scouts would be grubbing around right now at Falkirk and Wrexham (no disrespect to them).

I'd rather they were!

[europia]

11 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Like I said, his heart is in the right place, but decision-making by him and those employed by him have been fairly terrible so far.

Mel has enough business acumen to get it right in the end. Yes some decision have been questionable and some have looked OK initially but deemed poor in hindsight:

Ousting McLaren who was undermining everything at the football club was absolutely the right decision.

Highly rated Clement as a long term appointment seemed reasonable at the time, although there were doubters.

In sanctioning the signing of Butterfield & Johnson in response to the Hughes & Bryson injuries early in the season, MM was backing the manager.

Wassall as an interim appointment with so many games to play was odd, but there may have been justifiable reasons for this.

Pearson now seems a controversial appointment and his success or lack of it will again formulate supporters opinion of the chairman.

 

[Seth's left foot]

6 minutes ago, RFK said:

Ruining us with good intentions is still ruining us.

Hindsight police? How do you know what I thought previously?

Ruining us? Slight over exaggeration.

 

[WhiteHorseRam]

22 minutes ago, RFK said:

I completely get that, but business sense is not football sense. And he's been far too involved for my liking. For me, his job is to hand over the money and let Rush run the club. I would rather not have his money than have the current situation.

And thank you.

I think we have seen with the start of the new season he has stepped back, but how hard must it be to just 'hand over the money'? From what I can gather he is a from scratch self-made man.

I think we are all agreed its what happens between now and say Bonfire Night is going to be very interesting.

[WhiteHorseRam]

10 minutes ago, cannable said:

I'd rather they were!

Rather than have millions to spend on players? Trying to create a complete long-term successful team from free transfers, low league unknowns and the under 21s is really tough.

You should always have a good youth program and always be on the look out for another Ian Wright or Vardy.

There is a lot of romance about lower league players being given a chance being more prepared to fight for the shirt, etc,but bigger beasts bought with more cash when motivated by the manager will always win. Ask Celtic.

I'll stick with MM and his wallet thanks.

 

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

Rather than have millions to spend on players? Trying to create a complete long-term successful team from free transfers, low league unknowns and the under 21s is really tough.

You should always have a good youth program and always be on the look out for another Ian Wright or Vardy.

There is a lot of romance about lower league players being given a chance being more prepared to fight for the shirt, etc,but bigger beasts bought with more cash when motivated by the manager will always win. Ask Celtic.

I'll stick with MM and his wallet thanks.

 

And we just about did it… 

I'd rather have good recruitment than spunk millions on transfers.

[WhiteHorseRam]

1 minute ago, cannable said:

And we just about did it… 

I'd rather have good recruitment than spunk millions on transfers.

 

With all the cash sloshing around the Prem it is now washing into the championship as teams with big parachute payments etc come down. From this point on we will need deep pockets if we wish to progress. 

Also we don't know just yet that we have spunked millions on the current squad. If we start to string results together there is plenty of season left to really get somewhere.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

 

With all the cash sloshing around the Prem it is now washing into the championship as teams with big parachute payments etc come down. From this point on we will need deep pockets if we wish to progress. 

Also we don't know just yet that we have spunked millions on the current squad. If we start to string results together there is plenty of season left to really get somewhere.

Come on… we spent £25,000,000 last season and went backwards and still didn't address two outstanding issues. 

Every single time there's a new TV deal everybody says the same thing. All money does is give you a broader pool of potential signings. Your recruitment team still has to have some idea on how they will fit into the team. 

 

[Mostyn6]

37 minutes ago, RFK said:

Ruining us with good intentions is still ruining us.

Hindsight police? How do you know what I thought previously?

 

3 minutes ago, RFK said:

Perhaps, but that's what it feels like. We've gone massively backwards since he took over, and it's mostly because of his decision making.

I disagree. It's too soon to say THIS season, but last season was an improvement on the season before in terms of reaching the play-offs and league position. Last season we gave a 12 point headstart to Brighton and ended up overtaking them at one stage.