Who remembers when....

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, RFK said:

Things can be run badly off the pitch and things go well on it. And vice versa. That tells you nothing without looking at the reasons for it. Of course it's not just a simple correlation.

Things are bad on the pitch because things are bad in recruitment/management/culture. Take your pick, Mel has to take a big slice of the blame for that. This isn't just poor form, we have zero direction.

That's without even mentioning Mel's dressing room antics.

please elaborate then. Mel had a dressing room antic, ONCE, and since then, we finished in a play-off place. We've made some signings and offloaded some players since then and recruited THE manager most fans wanted!

[eddie]

4 hours ago, Seth's left foot said:

I disagree. IF he had taken us up we would've been battered (again).

Well, that's a load of crystal balls.

[Bris Vegas]

Knowing Mel Morris or his employees read this forum, it looks like Mostyn is either employed by the man or after a job.

 

[Tamworthram]

13 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Knowing Mel Morris or his employees read this forum, it looks like Mostyn is either employed by the man or after a job.

 

Or, like others of us who, accept mistakes may have been made but, we as supporters, don't and will never know the full facts. I for one am glad to have MM (and his money) is around. It's horrendous on the pitch at the moment but improving. Anyone calling for MM to sell up should be careful what they wish for. 

[Bris Vegas]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

Or, like others of us who, accept mistakes may have been made but, we as supporters, don't and will never know the full facts. I for one am glad to have MM (and his money) is around. It's horrendous on the pitch at the moment but improving. Anyone calling for MM to sell up should be careful what they wish for. 

The biggest gripe I have is his failure to understand football, systems and how important recruitment is.

He just gave the recruitment team / Paul Clement a shed load of money to buy a bunch of random players on high-wage, long-term contracts who didn't fit the system or profile of the club.

You can't even say it was hindsight either. A bunch of us couldn't believe what we were seeing 12 months ago.

Some of you congratulate him for blindly backing the manager. I don't. While I don't want an interfering chairman in football matters, I'd like one to recognise when he's making such an obvious mistake.

The so-called 'Derby Way' had been in place the moment Morris came in. He should have had an idea of how he wants the team to play football.

So when the recruitment team came back with a list consisting of Ince, Bent, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Weimann, Camara, Johnson and Blackman - Why didn't they actually analyse how each player firs in with the profile and system which they had in place? Instead of blindly buying them, why didn't they do a little research first?

It was mindboggling.

 

[Highgate]

We are very lucky to have a club owner like Mel Morris.  A man who clearly cares deeply for the club, and is willing to spend his own money to help us succeed. He is not here for profit-taking or a long-term investment.  It's not just a play-thing (train set?) that he'll get tired of and move on to something else.  There aren't too many clubs in as fortunate a position as we are regarding the ownership.

Mistakes seem to have been made of course, to what extent I'm not sure, but they seem to betray an owner who cares too much rather than too little.  As long as he accepts, as I'm confident he does, that it's the manager that decides team selection and tactics, then the fans have nothing to worry about in that regard.  Long may his ownership of Derby County continue. 

[WhiteHorseRam]

6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

 

So when the recruitment team came back with a list consisting of Ince, Bent, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Weimann, Camara, Johnson and Blackman - Why didn't they actually analyse how each player firs in with the profile and system which they had in place? Instead of blindly buying them, why didn't they do a little research first?

It was mindboggling.

 

Maybe 'Santa' Mel said they could have the lot?

When your new boss calls you into his office and gives you an extra staff member, a brand new company car, laptop, ipad whatever, anyone would happily accept.

Maybe this was MM's mistake, but it was a nice mistake to make. far better than selling your only good player and then the money strangely being squirreled away.

[Highgate]

3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

The biggest gripe I have is his failure to understand football, systems and how important recruitment is.

He just gave the recruitment team / Paul Clement a shed load of money to buy a bunch of random players on high-wage, long-term contracts who didn't fit the system or profile of the club.

You can't even say it was hindsight either. A bunch of us couldn't believe what we were seeing 12 months ago.

Some of you congratulate him for blindly backing the manager. I don't. While I don't want an interfering chairman in football matters, I'd like one to recognise when he's making such an obvious mistake.

The so-called 'Derby Way' had been in place the moment Morris came in. He should have had an idea of how he wants the team to play football.

So when the recruitment team came back with a list consisting of Ince, Bent, Baird, Pearce, Shackell, Weimann, Camara, Johnson and Blackman - Why didn't they actually analyse how each player firs in with the profile and system which they had in place? Instead of blindly buying them, why didn't they do a little research first?

It was mindboggling.

 

Do you want an interfering chairman or not.?   The chairman appoints the manager and recruitment team (or leaves in place what he inherited)  It's their job to identify the players that might suit the system, and the managers job to decide on the tactical systems (and of course make sure the recruitment team only acquires players that he wants).  Why would MM appoint Clement and then do his job for him ? 

[cannable]

It'd be interesting to see how many of us who defended him in February are criticising him now and vice versa. You can't really blame people for criticising when they've been sold a vision and have seen it scrapped four months later.

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, cannable said:

It'd be interesting to see how many of us who defended him in February are criticising him now and vice versa. You can't really blame people for criticising when they've been sold a vision and have seen it scrapped four months later.

You can when the same people were slating this vision and demanding that Mel employ Pearson immediately to ensure we get promotion.

[Angry Ram]

25 minutes ago, Highgate said:

 He is not here for profit-taking or a long-term investment.  It's not just a play-thing (train set?) that he'll get tired of and move on to something else.  There aren't too many clubs in as fortunate a position as we are regarding the ownership.

 

You can't really back that up can you.. It's your hope (probably true) but just a guess...

 

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You can when the same people were slating this vision and demanding that Mel employ Pearson immediately to ensure we get promotion.

Alright then - you can't really blame those who DID defend him then but criticise now. 

People that have done nothing but criticise are big fat smelly willies.

[Day]

41 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

The biggest gripe I have is his failure to understand football, systems and how important recruitment is.

I think maybe you fail to understand that Mel doesn't act alone so this gripe you have is misplaced somewhat. Since when have football owners been required to have an understanding of systems? I bet Fawaz thought 442 was a number for a taxi when he first arrived and Vincent Tan wouldn't have been able to explain the offside rule but he liked the colour Red. We have a panel on the FA employing the next England manager claiming they are no football experts!

As an owner you surround yourself with advisors, people that know the game, don't be fooled into thinking Mel has blindly walked into a football club absolutely clueless throwing blank cheques around, he's been around football quite a long time now, even Harry Redknapp was later brought in, reported as being a friend, who else has been consulted whilst he's been at Derby?

Quote

He just gave the recruitment team / Paul Clement a shed load of money to buy a bunch of random players on high-wage, long-term contracts who didn't fit the system or profile of the club.

You can't even say it was hindsight either. A bunch of us couldn't believe what we were seeing 12 months ago.

Back to systems again, there was no system and this is my biggest gripe with the bunch you talk of. Clement was new to the club, yet to manage a single game when most of these signings were made, we went through numerous formations when he first joined, the Derby Way was never we must play 4-3-3. We will never know what Clement had in mind as we lost Hughes and Bryson straight away, key players for us. Maybe just maybe these signings did fit into his plans. 

You made a lengthy post yesterday questioning why people are so patient with Pearson and believe he's the right man, I guess many believe a manager shouldn't be judged on 7 games and acknowledge that these players are not permanently wired into 4-3-3 and these players that some have been here just over 12 months may come good. 

Clement wasn't given enough time, Pearson has been here 5 minutes, let's give them a chance you know.

Quote

Some of you congratulate him for blindly backing the manager. I don't. While I don't want an interfering chairman in football matters, I'd like one to recognise when he's making such an obvious mistake.

You could argue he has recognised the club have made mistakes hence the change in direction of the club from head coach to manager who is given full control of transfers. Any transfer activity now is on Pearson. I don't like this as much as you do, for me the head coach role with a recruitment team above him was the way to go, many disagreed at the time but we're here now, the transition has started and 4-3-3 is no longer.

I would have liked to have seen a change in the recruitment team personally, it wasn't a disaster as many make out, we finished 8th the season prior to Mel taking over, we finished 5th in his first season. This is an improvement, an expensive one but still an improvement and that's why I would have preferred to see the change in recruitment as there is much better value out there. 

Saying that it can be just hard matching up a recruitment team with a head coach that are on the same wavelength, it's not as easy as you like to make out, building a team of players you see on TV is all well and good but you're also creating a team of personalities in the dressing room, you get that right and it can be more powerful on the pitch with players with superior ability, example? Leicester City.

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, cannable said:

Alright then - you can't really blame those who DID defend him then but criticise now. 

People that have done nothing but criticise are big fat smelly willies.

When Mel was splashing the cash last season I remember most revelling in it. I believe I was one of the few who had reservations and said I didn't think it was needed and felt the dynamic of the club would be changed.

I wasn't critical of Mel then, nor am I now. How can you criticise someone for blowing his personal fortune trying to get his football team promoted?!

[cannable]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

When Mel was splashing the cash last season I remember most revelling in it. I believe I was one of the few who had reservations and said I didn't think it was needed and felt the dynamic of the club would be changed.

I wasn't critical of Mel then, nor am I now. How can you criticise someone for blowing his personal fortune trying to get his football team promoted?!

Well that in itself is a criticism? 

[Mostyn6]

1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Knowing Mel Morris or his employees read this forum, it looks like Mostyn is either employed by the man or after a job.

 

ouch, are you a tad bitter Bris? You clearly have attention issues and like to revel in doom and gloom and pessimistically getting people all depressed. I sometimes wish this was Big Brother so I could nominate you off the forum for a while.

I wish the Bris of a couple of years back, who had appreciation for pragmatism and growth, was back on the forum. Cos this version, especially supportive of a corrupt Spanish league where money is thrown around sickeningly has become a confused hypocrite.

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, cannable said:

Well that in itself is a criticism? 

I think he made mistakes does not mean I am going to criticise him for it. Think he did what he did with the best intentions.

[TheDeadlySaul]

I respect Mel's investment in the club and it is great having a true fan as owner. However none of that means he is immune to criticism. I've been a bit confused by some of his decisions lately, the sacking of Clement was an odd one, but I understood it when he laid out the idea of 'The Derby Way'. But since the hiring of Pearson as manager he has just seemed to have thrown 'The Derby Way' into the bin and it makes the sacking of Clement even more odd. 

I have a lot of faith in Mel, but I hope he starts improving his decision making when it comes to fooballing matters. 

 

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

I respect Mel's investment in the club and it is great having a true fan as owner. However none of that means he is immune to criticism. I've been a bit confused by some of his decisions lately, the sacking of Clement was an odd one, but I understood it when he laid out the idea of 'The Derby Way'. But since the hiring of Pearson as manager he has just seemed to have thrown 'The Derby Way' into the bin and it makes the sacking of Clement even more odd. 

I have a lot of faith in Mel, but I hope he starts improving his decision making when it comes to fooballing matters. 

 

I honestly believe after all of the criticism he took last season MM buckled and went against his own beliefs with the appointment of Pearson.

At breakfast club Pearson was mentioned and the reaction from MM made me think he would not even be considered for the job. Can't remember exactly what was said but he was less than impressed that Pearson had gone straight to the media to say he had declared his interest to Derby about the managerial vacancy.

I may have read the situation completely wrong but I would have said at that point MM was almost certain that Wassall was the man for the job.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I honestly believe after all of the criticism he took last season MM buckled and went against his own beliefs with the appointment of Pearson.

At breakfast club Pearson was mentioned and the reaction from MM made me think he would not even be considered for the job. Can't remember exactly what was said but he was less than impressed that Pearson had gone straight to the media to say he had declared his interest to Derby about the managerial vacancy.

I may have read the situation completely wrong but I would have said at that point MM was almost certain that Wassall was the man for the job.

Certainly sounds plausible @G STAR RAM. The scenario from afar looked a bit to me as though Mel was doing a bit of "try before you buy " with Darren wassall - possibly to avoid repeating what was probably an expensive mistake in hiring and then quickly firing clement + entourage. 

I was struck by Mels comments when he did appoint pearson about how he was most closely aligned to mel out of all the applicants. So either what is happening now was long planned  (or at least discussed as a possibility ), or alternatively pearson was a little economical with the truth with Mel.