Chris Martin

[Sexydadbod]

The problem is that in 4-3-3 at times we were predictable. If Martin didnt play well, most of the time we didn't win. The whole system was so reliant on him with him being a false 9. Any half decent side would have stopped us and this has been a problem for the last 3 years now and why we failed to beat certain sides, Boro, Leicester and Burnley to name a few. Martin may thrive in a new formation but equally he may fail which is why I'm fascinated to see how Pearson uses Martin because he isn't his typical kind of player. Obviously Pearson sees Martin every day in training and if he feels he doesn't suit his formation then I wouldn't be shocked if Martin is sold. If he does move on then we wish him all the best then go again. If we did sell Martin we would obviously have a replacement in the  wings ready to come in, the Wells rumours have picked in the last couple of days.

[VulcanRam]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I LOVE Martin's whining... 

We have a player who always wants to be involved, complains when people don't include him, gets frustrated when people don't find him in the box because ALL he wants to do is make and score goals... And actually points out to the referee when defenders (who genuinely get away with a LOT... especially against a lone striker) kick him...

And anyone who isn't sure he's being fouled a lot? Joint 13th most fouled player in the league... Out of what... 500 players?

I'm surprised there are 12 more to be honest. One of the things that get unnoticed by a lot of people is that because of the way he plays he gets kicked from pillar to post game in, game out. All the nasty stuff, elbows, knees in the back, kicks in the ankle. Huge credit to him that he a) gets up and gets on with it and b) doesn't spend half the season on the treatment table.

I don't know if he will be as influential under the new management but I'm pretty sure that if he wasn't here, we'd miss him big time.

[cheron85]

12 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I'm surprised there are 12 more to be honest. One of the things that get unnoticed by a lot of people is that because of the way he plays he gets kicked from pillar to post game in, game out. All the nasty stuff, elbows, knees in the back, kicks in the ankle. Huge credit to him that he a) gets up and gets on with it and b) doesn't spend half the season on the treatment table.

I don't know if he will be as influential under the new management but I'm pretty sure that if he wasn't here, we'd miss him big time.

I think most forwards get it a bit... But he seems to manage to get it from both CBs at the same time!

I think partly because he has a reputation defenders know they can kick him more and get away with it.

[SamUltraRam]

Watched a good documentary on the 66 World Cup winning team & Sir Alf didn't pick the best 11 that he could have, he picked the 11 that would suit his system. I think Pearson may be the same & one or two surprise omissions may be about to happen !! 

[rynny]

37 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I'm surprised there are 12 more to be honest. One of the things that get unnoticed by a lot of people is that because of the way he plays he gets kicked from pillar to post game in, game out. All the nasty stuff, elbows, knees in the back, kicks in the ankle. Huge credit to him that he a) gets up and gets on with it and b) doesn't spend half the season on the treatment table.

I don't know if he will be as influential under the new management but I'm pretty sure that if he wasn't here, we'd miss him big time.

This is spot on. I would like to see how some of the people who complain about his "falling over" would get on with the amount of kicks, elbows etc that he receives and how many times they would hit the deck.

[ck-]

People have been complaining about us not having an out and out winger in the squad, yet are also complaining about us having a world class whinger ... it's only one letter out for goodness sake.

....I'll get my coat

[cannable]

57 minutes ago, McLovin said:

The problem is that in 4-3-3 at times we were predictable. If Martin didnt play well, most of the time we didn't win. The whole system was so reliant on him with him being a false 9. Any half decent side would have stopped us and this has been a problem for the last 3 years now and why we failed to beat certain sides, Boro, Leicester and Burnley to name a few.

I'd argue that the section in bold was only true in 13/14. In 14/15 we adapted, a lot less went through Martin, we were more about co from - this resulted in us looking less fluent but Martin scoring at a higher rate. We were at our best when Martin was involved but even when he wasn't we were still blowing teams away. As for 15/16… well, our attacking philosophy seemed to be 'pass it slowly and hope somebody can produce some magic'. 

As for the teams listed, their whole successes were based off of nullifying the opposition and scoring when they could. We scored five goals in ten games against Leicester, Burnley and Boro since the introduction of 4-3-3. Six if you include that travesty at Turf Moor in 13/14. 

Just to compare, Burnley only scored 4 goals in 8 games against Boro and Leicester. 

[Gladram]

Martin also helps relieve pressure when needed. With him playing we get the ball up the pitch from throwins in our own half. He wins the odd free kick. The others, including Bent, don't do this.

When he was injured in Macs last season I think we missed this side of his game more than the goals, which others were scoring.

[Alph]

Never know what you've got until it's gone, grass is always greener etc etc

If you like pace then athletics is probably a better watch

Sammon was fast, Theo, Tyson etc etc. All crap.

Nigel's 2 best strikers? Kuqi and Martin

Because this is football not racing. 

What's happened is people have got used to having him and his goals and now want more. I'd like to think Derby are always looking to improve the squad everywhere on the pitch including Will the magician. 

But that doesn't mean you can't appreciate what you have. And people don't. 

When he's gone he'll be remembered for years. Held higher than most strikers in the last 20 years because his impact on Derby has been bigger than most. 

Let's just have a look at the last league match. Who was involved in the opening goal? Who was involved in the Bryson chance? 

"I want I want" 

And I'd bet money that his body language upsets fans more than it upsets his delicate teammates. Same as when Tom Ince isn't smiling. 

The British obsession with pace bores me to tears. 

Why have Man United brought Zlatan in. Navas and Walcott would be unstoppable. 

[Sexydadbod]

The British obsession with pace is because in England you don't have to be the greatest of footballers but if you have pace you have half a chance. Andre Gray isnt a very good footballer technically but he was one of the best players in the championship last season. Pace  wouldn't get you far in other european leagues which are more focused on technique. Vardy isn't a great footballer but was one of the best players in the premier league last season because of the fast-tempo game over here. Pace scares defenders though on any level. Ahmed Musa absolutely terrified Barcelona when Leicester played them the other day because he has pace. Pace stretches the game. As a defender I'd rather face Chris Martin than Darren Bent. That's not because I don't think Martin is very good but because I would know that Martin wouldn't run in behind like someone like Bent does and defenders are always more comfortable if they can see the game in front of them. A defender's worst nightmare is running to their own goal.

[Sexydadbod]

1 hour ago, SamUltraRam said:

Watched a good documentary on the 66 World Cup winning team & Sir Alf didn't pick the best 11 that he could have, he picked the 11 that would suit his system. I think Pearson may be the same & one or two surprise omissions may be about to happen !! 

Exactly how it should be. The team should always be first. Individuals win games, teams win leagues. If Martin or any other player doesn't fit the style they should be dropped in favour of someone who does.

[jono]

It looks as though Bent is going to get a decent run which he more than deserves but that doesn't detract from Chris Martins ability or record. 

I am just glad we have a strike force of more than one and therefore have options. I really would like to see a Bent Martin partnership but it is all chicken and egg. Can we risk the development period in the Hurley burley of a tough league ? Maybe not so perhaps it will be a rotation game ? 

[Alph]

7 hours ago, McLovin said:

The British obsession with pace is because in England you don't have to be the greatest of footballers but if you have pace you have half a chance. Andre Gray isnt a very good footballer technically but he was one of the best players in the championship last season. Pace  wouldn't get you far in other european leagues which are more focused on technique. Vardy isn't a great footballer but was one of the best players in the premier league last season because of the fast-tempo game over here. Pace scares defenders though on any level. Ahmed Musa absolutely terrified Barcelona when Leicester played them the other day because he has pace. Pace stretches the game. As a defender I'd rather face Chris Martin than Darren Bent. That's not because I don't think Martin is very good but because I would know that Martin wouldn't run in behind like someone like Bent does and defenders are always more comfortable if they can see the game in front of them. A defender's worst nightmare is running to their own goal.

I think 3 years at least worth of defenders would rather face Bent. He's scored about 60 goals and done lots of playmaking.

There's no one thing a defender doesn't like. They're as different as anyone else. 

Andre Gray was a good player at this level. Pace or no pace. His movement, his technique all good at this level. His pace is a threat because he's a good player... not he's a good player because he has pace. 

If what you're saying about pace is true then Navas wouldn't be garbage. He's faster than anyone and also completely *****. David Silva would never get a kick.  Wenger wouldn't go with Giroud over Sanchez or Walcott. 

The ball stretches a game. Good movement. Width. Shape. The whole point of passing the ball is not to move ball but to move the opponent. 

Defenders don't like Martin dropping deep. It gives them a decision to make. To step up with him leaving them blind to the flanks or stay and allow him to pick the ball up. That's no easier to play against than Darren Bent. I can think of lots of the best forwards in the world that more closely resemble Martin than Bent. 

People question Martin's mobility. They should try watching him. Oh he's not darting about but he drifts into pockets. That's movement and awareness that all our "mobile" ***** like Theo, Tyson, Sammon, Moore etc etc have never had. 

Every player is a slave to their teammate. There's no magic way of winning in England or anywhere else. Saying we need someone more mobile is like saying Barcelona need some height. You play to your strengths. And never have we needed Martin to be more mobile. What we've needed is Bent to be more Martin. Weimann to be more Martin. 

.....

All time PL top scorer

Shearer 

All time Serie A top scorer (within 80 years) 

Totti

All time La Liga top scorer

Messi

All time world cup top scorer

Klose

All time England top scorer

Rooney

All time Bundesliga top scorer

Gerd Muller

....

There's one thing all these share in common. And it's not pace. It's not playing on the shoulder. It's not running at defenders. It's intelligence. Scariest strikers to live and which are known for blistering pace? Only two are notorious poachers. 

What do the majority of pacey players lack? Being mobile is first and foremost in your head. And nobody moves faster than a ball. 

I sound like I don't appreciate pace at all. I do. In a running race. No seriously, if Martin was faster would he be better? Of course. And so would any player. If Messi was 7ft he'd be better too. 

The best footballers always rise to the top. And where fans love to think defenders hate pace, they don't.  They hate unpredictability. And running speed has nothing to do with that. Hence 2 of the best defenders of all time, Nesta and Maldini, were known to be great readers of the game and not for their speed. 

 

[Anag Ram]

Had a dream last night that Martin scored our first goal against Brighton today.

So that's it - proof that he is worth his place!

[Dimmu]

"Energy and commitment". Those are the things Pearson is after.

Can't see a place for Martin in Pearson's team to be honest.

[Sexydadbod]

4 hours ago, Alpha said:

I think 3 years at least worth of defenders would rather face Bent. He's scored about 60 goals and done lots of playmaking.

There's no one thing a defender doesn't like. They're as different as anyone else. 

Andre Gray was a good player at this level. Pace or no pace. His movement, his technique all good at this level. His pace is a threat because he's a good player... not he's a good player because he has pace. 

If what you're saying about pace is true then Navas wouldn't be garbage. He's faster than anyone and also completely *****. David Silva would never get a kick.  Wenger wouldn't go with Giroud over Sanchez or Walcott. 

The ball stretches a game. Good movement. Width. Shape. The whole point of passing the ball is not to move ball but to move the opponent. 

Defenders don't like Martin dropping deep. It gives them a decision to make. To step up with him leaving them blind to the flanks or stay and allow him to pick the ball up. That's no easier to play against than Darren Bent. I can think of lots of the best forwards in the world that more closely resemble Martin than Bent. 

People question Martin's mobility. They should try watching him. Oh he's not darting about but he drifts into pockets. That's movement and awareness that all our "mobile" ***** like Theo, Tyson, Sammon, Moore etc etc have never had. 

Every player is a slave to their teammate. There's no magic way of winning in England or anywhere else. Saying we need someone more mobile is like saying Barcelona need some height. You play to your strengths. And never have we needed Martin to be more mobile. What we've needed is Bent to be more Martin. Weimann to be more Martin. 

.....

All time PL top scorer

Shearer 

All time Serie A top scorer (within 80 years) 

Totti

All time La Liga top scorer

Messi

All time world cup top scorer

Klose

All time England top scorer

Rooney

All time Bundesliga top scorer

Gerd Muller

....

There's one thing all these share in common. And it's not pace. It's not playing on the shoulder. It's not running at defenders. It's intelligence. Scariest strikers to live and which are known for blistering pace? Only two are notorious poachers. 

What do the majority of pacey players lack? Being mobile is first and foremost in your head. And nobody moves faster than a ball. 

I sound like I don't appreciate pace at all. I do. In a running race. No seriously, if Martin was faster would he be better? Of course. And so would any player. If Messi was 7ft he'd be better too. 

The best footballers always rise to the top. And where fans love to think defenders hate pace, they don't.  They hate unpredictability. And running speed has nothing to do with that. Hence 2 of the best defenders of all time, Nesta and Maldini, were known to be great readers of the game and not for their speed. 

 

I'm talking from the perspective of a defender. Defenders always have and always will hate playing pace on any level. Again see what Musa did against Barcelona the other day. He scared the Barca backline shitless because he was quick. Even Demarai Gray and Schlupp had decent games against Barca because they were quick and direct. I'm not saying Bent is better than Martin, I'm saying I'd rather face Martin as a defender. Martin may drop deep but I tell you what defenders are more comfortable with that than strikers running in behind or in the channels. I disagree that some of the best forwards are more like Martin than Bent. The likes of Aguero,Lewandowski, Suarez run in behind like Bent does and are quick. Bent does have quality along with his pace otherwise he would not have been a premier league player for years. I agree with you that pace alone won't get you far but it gives you half a chance. I wouldn't say Walcott or Navas are complete garbage like you say either because both have played at the highest level. David Alaba said that Walcott is one of the toughest playest he has played against because he is quick and direct. When Navas was at Sevilla, he was Del Bosque's go to man for the Spain national side, why? Because he has pace. He stretched the game. What did Torres and Villa have in common? Pace and quality. What did the Portugal team in the euros have up front? Pace and quality. Anyway, I'm referring more to the game in England, not other European leagues where the game is a bit slower. Would Vardy be one of the best players in any other European league? Nope but I'm talking hypothetically. Vidic says that he still has nightmares of Torres in his prime. Not just because of his quality but because of his raw pace which terrified him. I wouldn't say that Nesta and Maldini were exactly slow either, both were brilliant athletes in their prime which is why they were so good. Their athleticism combined with their understanding of the game is what made them so great. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

[jono]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

I think 3 years at least worth of defenders would rather face Bent. He's scored about 60 goals and done lots of playmaking.

There's no one thing a defender doesn't like. They're as different as anyone else. 

Andre Gray was a good player at this level. Pace or no pace. His movement, his technique all good at this level. His pace is a threat because he's a good player... not he's a good player because he has pace. 

If what you're saying about pace is true then Navas wouldn't be garbage. He's faster than anyone and also completely *****. David Silva would never get a kick.  Wenger wouldn't go with Giroud over Sanchez or Walcott. 

The ball stretches a game. Good movement. Width. Shape. The whole point of passing the ball is not to move ball but to move the opponent. 

Defenders don't like Martin dropping deep. It gives them a decision to make. To step up with him leaving them blind to the flanks or stay and allow him to pick the ball up. That's no easier to play against than Darren Bent. I can think of lots of the best forwards in the world that more closely resemble Martin than Bent. 

People question Martin's mobility. They should try watching him. Oh he's not darting about but he drifts into pockets. That's movement and awareness that all our "mobile" ***** like Theo, Tyson, Sammon, Moore etc etc have never had. 

Every player is a slave to their teammate. There's no magic way of winning in England or anywhere else. Saying we need someone more mobile is like saying Barcelona need some height. You play to your strengths. And never have we needed Martin to be more mobile. What we've needed is Bent to be more Martin. Weimann to be more Martin. 

.....

All time PL top scorer

Shearer 

All time Serie A top scorer (within 80 years) 

Totti

All time La Liga top scorer

Messi

All time world cup top scorer

Klose

All time England top scorer

Rooney

All time Bundesliga top scorer

Gerd Muller

....

There's one thing all these share in common. And it's not pace. It's not playing on the shoulder. It's not running at defenders. It's intelligence. Scariest strikers to live and which are known for blistering pace? Only two are notorious poachers. 

What do the majority of pacey players lack? Being mobile is first and foremost in your head. And nobody moves faster than a ball. 

I sound like I don't appreciate pace at all. I do. In a running race. No seriously, if Martin was faster would he be better? Of course. And so would any player. If Messi was 7ft he'd be better too. 

The best footballers always rise to the top. And where fans love to think defenders hate pace, they don't.  They hate unpredictability. And running speed has nothing to do with that. Hence 2 of the best defenders of all time, Nesta and Maldini, were known to be great readers of the game and not for their speed. 

 

Another astute post Alpha .. Another "slo mo"to add to that list .. Teddy Sherringham .. One of my all time favourites .. Players that Ghost into position are artists and can be a delight to watch. 

[Nijul_cluff]

Chris martin is still number 9, people are going on about him not being picked as if he's been given number 99

[Derbados]

I think the make or break of Martin will be how he reacts to possibly being dropped for todays game and even the possibility of him being left out for a while whilst Bent gets a run in the team. When Martin gets his chance he will need to prove to Pearson that he's up for it and not revert to type by sulking with negative body language/ lack of effort, because he was left out. 

If he does that then i can see a future for him, if he feels wronged and doesn't put in the effort/ commitment, i think we may see him out the door come January. Pearson just wont put up with that behavior, no matter how prolific the player. 

[Philmycock]

38 minutes ago, jono said:

Another astute post Alpha .. Another "slo mo"to add to that list .. Teddy Sherringham .. One of my all time favourites .. Players that Ghost into position are artists and can be a delight to watch. 

Paul Goddard too, slow but v intelligent