Chris Martin

[angieram]

4 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

His strengths are scoring goals and creating goals. What more do you want from a striker?

Not to be Chris Martin, apparently.

[cannable]

26 minutes ago, Ninos said:

His goals per minute played ratio is exceptionally poor. On a good day he has a nice touch, he dives to get free kicks most effectively, and he can link well with midfielders. That's the positives. He's benefitted over recent years from the high calibre midfield he's had with him. No pace, poor attitude, low workrate, never chases or wins balls, almost totally ineffective in the air, totally gets shut down versus quality defenses or top sides, or in key matches, and 1 on 1 he's about as bad as they come. If Pearson writes him off then that would be a good thing - but all that said Ince was so poor in the second half that Martin prob could have not done much worse. Hughes in there and Martin out of there are 2 preconditions for us getting out of this division. 

In thirty-four starts against each season's top six (including play-offs) he's scored twelve goals and created six goals.

Mitigating factors are; three games were under Clough - he played left wing against Brentford at home in 14/15 and was unfit - THAT Burnley game - going off injured against Bournemouth. 

Just to contextualise his record, compare his record to that of Andre Gray, who in twenty starts against top six sides has scored six goals and registered three assists.

Mitigating factors for him are; coming off injured against us this season.

Now lets have a look at Sam Vokes. In his last two Championship seasons he's scored five goals and created two in eighteen games against top six sides. He went off early against Leicester with a cruciate injury so make it 17 games.

*drops the mic*

[duncanjwitham]

16 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Take a look at goals per minute played for strikers in the championship this past season and see where he ranks. It's not so good. Assists is a different matter and that's prob where his strength lies - in his ability to link. 

Last season we made no effort to play to his strengths, yet he still averaged 0.4 goals per 90 minutes. The top strikers (gray, forestieri, Kodija etc) were going at 0.5 and 0.6.  The two previous seasons where we did play to martins strengths, he went at 0.5 and 0.6. The exact same as the other top scorers.

[Mr Tibbs]

49 minutes ago, Ninos said:

His goals per minute played ratio is exceptionally poor. On a good day he has a nice touch, he dives to get free kicks most effectively, and he can link well with midfielders. That's the positives. He's benefitted over recent years from the high calibre midfield he's had with him. No pace, poor attitude, low workrate, never chases or wins balls, almost totally ineffective in the air, totally gets shut down versus quality defenses or top sides, or in key matches, and 1 on 1 he's about as bad as they come. If Pearson writes him off then that would be a good thing - but all that said Ince was so poor in the second half that Martin prob could have not done much worse. Hughes in there and Martin out of there are 2 preconditions for us getting out of this division. 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. 

Quality assessment of one of the best strikers in the division. 

[DeanYatesFarPost]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 11:50, Ninos said:

His goals per minute played ratio is exceptionally poor. On a good day he has a nice touch, he dives to get free kicks most effectively, and he can link well with midfielders. That's the positives. He's benefitted over recent years from the high calibre midfield he's had with him. No pace, poor attitude, low workrate, never chases or wins balls, almost totally ineffective in the air, totally gets shut down versus quality defenses or top sides, or in key matches, and 1 on 1 he's about as bad as they come. If Pearson writes him off then that would be a good thing - but all that said Ince was so poor in the second half that Martin prob could have not done much worse. Hughes in there and Martin out of there are 2 preconditions for us getting out of this division. 

You may have your wish , Wolves have put in a bid  for Martin today.

[Dr. Gonzo]

This squad should have a few styles they can call upon when needed. I interpret the calls for a "plan B" as similar thinking, and they've been ringing for a couple of seasons, albeit relatively successful ones, or entertaining ones, or just better than before ones. But when looking for "plan B", or just utilising the squad to find and develop other options, styles, dynamics and so forth and so on, surely you don't sell your fairly reliable, maybe a few tweeks away, there or thereabouts, "plan A"  while youre doing that. which is what Martin is to Derby. 

 

[JaguarRam]

I like Martin but I have a feeling Nigel doesn't. I think if he manages to bring in someone else he will be gone. 

Similar to Hughes. He is our best player but I think a 10 million pound offer and Hughes will be gone too. 

Personally, I would keep both. But then personally I would have stuck to 4-3-3 and brought in competition for Martin and proper cover for Thorne. So shows you what I know. 

Last season was a failure because we messed around with the formation, had fitness issues and lost Hughes and Bryson early on. 

[rynny]

Called up to the Scotland squad, no place for any other of our players. Also no Rhodes or McCormack in the squad.

[JimmyDCFC]

45 minutes ago, rynny said:

Called up to the Scotland squad, no place for any other of our players. Also no Rhodes or McCormack in the squad.

A testament to Martin. Though, speaking as a Scotland supporter, Strachan rarely differs from his usual names. The strike force hasn't changed for ages so it's hard to read too much into it. 

[Alph]

On 07/08/2016 at 12:16, cannable said:

In thirty-four starts against each season's top six (including play-offs) he's scored twelve goals and created six goals.

Mitigating factors are; three games were under Clough - he played left wing against Brentford at home in 14/15 and was unfit - THAT Burnley game - going off injured against Bournemouth. 

Just to contextualise his record, compare his record to that of Andre Gray, who in twenty starts against top six sides has scored six goals and registered three assists.

Mitigating factors for him are; coming off injured against us this season.

Now lets have a look at Sam Vokes. In his last two Championship seasons he's scored five goals and created two in eighteen games against top six sides. He went off early against Leicester with a cruciate injury so make it 17 games.

*drops the mic*

 

On 07/08/2016 at 12:17, duncanjwitham said:

Last season we made no effort to play to his strengths, yet he still averaged 0.4 goals per 90 minutes. The top strikers (gray, forestieri, Kodija etc) were going at 0.5 and 0.6.  The two previous seasons where we did play to martins strengths, he went at 0.5 and 0.6. The exact same as the other top scorers.

Yeah, yeah. but he's crap. If you don't compare his goal record and playmaking ability to other top Champ strikers and focus purely on his weaknesses then he's a weak player.

Innit Ninos? 

I did the same for Messi and apart from when he's good the guy is useless

[Ninos]

This news is about as awe inspiring as Bairds retirement. Please allardyce come watch Hughesy and get him in the England first team squad so we have a real international player to brag about. (With a modicum of apology to Hendrick and Keogh).

[Ninos]

29 minutes ago, Alpha said:

 

Yeah, yeah. but he's crap. If you don't compare his goal record and playmaking ability to other top Champ strikers and focus purely on his weaknesses then he's a weak player.

Innit Ninos? 

I did the same for Messi and apart from when he's good the guy is useless

Play acting more than play making ... A very apt comparison Martin to messi that is ... That's more entertaining than Owen Bs classic of Martin = Diego Costa of the championship. 

I agree with what I think Nigel Pearson thinks ... And endorse whatever mr Pearson decides to do. Just hope he figures out the truth sooner rather than later - because I'd like to see Derby score.

[sage]

TLT

[PodgeyRam]

9 minutes ago, Ninos said:

This news is about as awe inspiring as Bairds retirement. Please allardyce come watch Hughesy and get him in the England first team squad so we have a real international player to brag about. (With a modicum of apology to Hendrick and Keogh).

Think you owe Keogh and Hendrick more than a modicum of an apology Ninos. They've played in the round of 16 of a European Championships. Doing them a disservice I think.  Anyhow, Martin is a real international player. He plays for the Scottish National Team and has done in competitive games. This makes him a real international player. Whether you believe he deserves to be or not is another matter (I can guess the answer though).

[Tombo]

"Okay, apart from score goals, create assists, been a leader, stayed loyal despite outside interest and done work in the community representing the club, what has Chris Martin ever done for us?"

[eddie]

3 minutes ago, Ninos said:

 

I agree with what I think Nigel Pearson thinks ... And endorse whatever mr Pearson decides to do. Just hope he figures out the truth sooner rather than later - because I'd like to see Derby score.

This is one of the most nonsensical paragraphs I have read in a while.

Edward Lear would be proud.

[Ninos]

2 minutes ago, eddie said:

This is one of the most nonsensical paragraphs I have read in a while.

Edward Lear would be proud.

I liked it. It was a maze of syllogistic surliness devised to invoke the Martinites into anti Pearson rhetoric. 

Your last sentence is incomplete and utterly depressing.

[nfb]

Martin has 'guile' pure and simple, all this about ratio's and whether he's fast etc is slightly irrelevant, horses for courses, or round pegs in round holes, call it how you like, but Martin is  'Target man', hit the ball towards him he will hold it up and try to play someone in, those are the guys who should be quick, not Martin, but to be a good target man you need to have the brain to read the game, the skill to deliver the pass, and then also contribute a few goals as well. To play him a system (and we have) that doesn't suit a target man is daft.

I believe in horses for courses, and depending who the opponents are one could for example select a system to play, for some teams one could adopt an attacking style, with a target man, and fast players moving off them 4-3-3 Martin with Weiman and Wilson

Or a defensive style with a 4-4-2 and have wilson/weiman up front to break to a butterfield/hughes though ball, no Martin, he would understand... he's an intellegent guy

[Robbie Ram]

On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 11:50, Ninos said:

His goals per minute played ratio is exceptionally poor. On a good day he has a nice touch, he dives to get free kicks most effectively, and he can link well with midfielders. That's the positives. He's benefitted over recent years from the high calibre midfield he's had with him. No pace, poor attitude, low workrate, never chases or wins balls, almost totally ineffective in the air, totally gets shut down versus quality defenses or top sides, or in key matches, and 1 on 1 he's about as bad as they come. If Pearson writes him off then that would be a good thing - but all that said Ince was so poor in the second half that Martin prob could have not done much worse. Hughes in there and Martin out of there are 2 preconditions for us getting out of this division. 

Everything you've detailed is correct.

Which is why Pearson usually prefers quick strikers, because pace is a killer against any defence. Martin's relatively static style would stop the momentum of the rapid counterattacking tactics I believe NP wants to develop, judging from his previous clubs.

Martin is only really suited to the possession based football we have played for the last few seasons. 

My guess is that we may also buy or loan another quicker striker before the transfer window closes at the end of this month, to go with our new loanee Wilson.

If so, then we will probably revert to the 442 formation Pearson usually likes, asap.

With only a week left to go though, he'd better get a move on with any pending deals. 

 

[cannable]

33 minutes ago, Robbie Ram said:

Everything you've detailed is correct.

Which is why Pearson usually prefers quick strikers, because pace is a killer against any defence. Martin's relatively static style would stop the momentum of the rapid counterattacking tactics I believe NP wants to develop, judging from his previous clubs.

Martin is only really suited to the possession based football we have played for the last few seasons. 

My guess is that we may also buy or loan another quicker striker before the transfer window closes at the end of this month, to go with our new loanee Wilson.

If so, then we will probably revert to the 442 formation Pearson usually likes, asap.

With only a week left to go though, he'd better get a move on with any pending deals. 

 

As are about 90% of the squad…