Chris Martin

[Alph]

Midtable team loses more than it wins has a season in top 3, a season in top 3 until destroyed by injuries and then another season in top 6 suddenly thinks not getting promotion is a failure.

85 pts league top scorers off the back of 5/6 years never winning more than we lost. Failure

Top 3 and top at Xmas. Lost 3 defensive midfielders and first and second choice striker plus constant tinkering with defence results in huge dip in form. Formation blamed. Failure.

New rookie manager. Top 6 and top 3 into Xmas. Sacks manager. Finishes 5th. Loses 3-2 in semi final to promoted team. Failure

The reason these are failures even though over the last 20 years you're likely to find Derby comfortably way outside the Premier League is because the fans suffer from Leeds United Syndrome. 

And although a coach like McClaren went from midtable to Championship promotion contenders with the same players it's impossible to imagine a coach coming in and taking Derby from promotion contenders to promoted without a total rebuild and change of direction. 

There's no way on Earth this team could give more. No way on Earth they could get 10 - 15 more points per season doing what they're doing. Impossible 

We need to start from scratch. Even if it means going back to midtable. That... that would probably be success.

Because Leeds United syndrome means if you're struggling you dream about being good. If you're good then you expect to be in the Champions League. We're Derby County. We belong in the PL!! Based on recent decades of mostly 2nd tier football.

433 is a failure. Chris Martin is history. 

We were onto something in 442 with Robinson, Savies, Tyson, Dickov, Varney, Ellington, Porter etc etc. You have to have pace.

I think I'm starting to get it now. McClaren, Clement and Wassall were failures.

[Alph]

In other words..

Never take the piss out of Newcastle or Leeds or Forest fans.

It's odd that Nigel Pearson has begun to realise the shape the team works in. The roles the players are suited to.

Imagine if he doesn't do a total rebuild and ends up back where we were. We'll never get promoted. 

[Robbie Ram]

11 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Midtable team loses more than it wins has a season in top 3, a season in top 3 until destroyed by injuries and then another season in top 6 suddenly thinks not getting promotion is a failure.

85 pts league top scorers off the back of 5/6 years never winning more than we lost. Failure

Top 3 and top at Xmas. Lost 3 defensive midfielders and first and second choice striker plus constant tinkering with defence results in huge dip in form. Formation blamed. Failure.

New rookie manager. Top 6 and top 3 into Xmas. Sacks manager. Finishes 5th. Loses 3-2 in semi final to promoted team. Failure

The reason these are failures even though over the last 20 years you're likely to find Derby comfortably way outside the Premier League is because the fans suffer from Leeds United Syndrome. 

And although a coach like McClaren went from midtable to Championship promotion contenders with the same players it's impossible to imagine a coach coming in and taking Derby from promotion contenders to promoted without a total rebuild and change of direction. 

There's no way on Earth this team could give more. No way on Earth they could get 10 - 15 more points per season doing what they're doing. Impossible 

We need to start from scratch. Even if it means going back to midtable. That... that would probably be success.

Because Leeds United syndrome means if you're struggling you dream about being good. If you're good then you expect to be in the Champions League. We're Derby County. We belong in the PL!! Based on recent decades of mostly 2nd tier football.

433 is a failure. Chris Martin is history. 

We were onto something in 442 with Robinson, Savies, Tyson, Dickov, Varney, Ellington, Porter etc etc. You have to have pace.

I think I'm starting to get it now. McClaren, Clement and Wassall were failures.

You're right.

The club and its fans need to get real.

I reckon we only have two PL quality players good enough to get us up there.

Will Hughes - but ONLY if played in an attacking/ linking  role.

Jacob Butterfield - but only when on top of his game.

With good coaching allied to the right tactics, these two could feasibly contribute 20 goals a season between them, for starters.

They would be the sports gearbox for a pacey counterattacking Rams team that should be able to go from defence to attack in maybe three or four incisive passes. NOT the big boot at all. No sir.

Remember, possession in itself is meaningless - the whole point of this game is to score goals whilst keeping the opponents at bay. Period.

NOT passing pretty rings round them with little end result and maybe nil points when the final whistle goes.

That's just showboating and a complete waste of time.

NP certainly has a massive clear out on his hands but MM will want most of his splurged money back after the Evans farce of last season. There's the catch, alas.

Therefore, this season is bound to be a transitional one.

[Ninos]

5 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Players aren't just identikit robots with a position label on them.  Every player is different and has different strengths and weaknesses.  Players that can do everything just don't exist - even Messi has weaknesses.  And even if we get replacement players in, they will have their own weaknesses. Andre gray is not technically good enough to play the role Martin played for us under mcclaren, so I presume he's not good enough either if he can't play any striker position in any system?  How well do we think Messi would do in a stoke-style long ball team?  He certainly wouldn't be as effective as he is in a team like Barca that play to his strengths.

You've got to get your best players on the pitch with as many of them playing to their strengths as possible.  We're not doing that so the moment, we're actively playing to our weaknesses and preventing players using their strengths. New either need to completely replace the entire midfield and forward line, to play the way Pearson seems to want us to play, or we start making the best of what we have.

This is just a really very silly post and a veiled attack on Pearson. Mclaren has proven himself to be an utter failure (not just at derby) as did clement. Martin is not technically good either. Messi is technically good. Will Hughes is technically good. Zlatan is technically good. Aguero is technically good. If you have not one skill move in your arsenal and you can't beat a player 1 on 1 then you're not technically very good. Ask any football coach or exponent of Dutch skill football (coerver cruyff). And messi would dominate on any team, from ilkeston town to Barca.

Your point has only been made with some acceptance for Will Hughes who clearly is our best technical creative midfielder ... But is played in the holding role. But we don't have Thorne (also technical) so NP is putting Hughes in a spot where he will develop another part of his game and he's done superbly there and he's still creating chances (such as our only league goal so far). Martin isn't technical he's just decent at passing with his back to goal, that's it. Don't think that works in a system which builds a defensive foundation and relies on quick attacks with unforgiving finishers. A team that continues to rely on Martin as its point of attack will fail. 

[cannable]

10 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Martin is not technically good either.

Good lord.

[TuffLuff]

38 minutes ago, cannable said:

Good lord.

It's ok, don't feed them. We will just post this video, you know with its actual goals and visual facts in it and that, everytime someone says something ridiculous about Chris Martin

(apologies to everyone for continuous posting of this one video, I'm just fed up of people talking complete nonsense about Martin. Ofcourse, have an opinion, but if you just say a statement without providing evidence then it's just nonsense)

[Bris Vegas]

2 hours ago, Ninos said:

This is just a really very silly post and a veiled attack on Pearson. Mclaren has proven himself to be an utter failure (not just at derby) as did clement. Martin is not technically good either. Messi is technically good. Will Hughes is technically good. Zlatan is technically good. Aguero is technically good. If you have not one skill move in your arsenal and you can't beat a player 1 on 1 then you're not technically very good. Ask any football coach or exponent of Dutch skill football (coerver cruyff). And messi would dominate on any team, from ilkeston town to Barca.

Your point has only been made with some acceptance for Will Hughes who clearly is our best technical creative midfielder ... But is played in the holding role. But we don't have Thorne (also technical) so NP is putting Hughes in a spot where he will develop another part of his game and he's done superbly there and he's still creating chances (such as our only league goal so far). Martin isn't technical he's just decent at passing with his back to goal, that's it. Don't think that works in a system which builds a defensive foundation and relies on quick attacks with unforgiving finishers. A team that continues to rely on Martin as its point of attack will fail. 

Isn't control, vision, first touch, passing ability, ball striking and awareness not signs of being a technical footballer? Why is Thorne technical but Martin isn't?