CumbrianRam Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Like you would know. Likewise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top 6 finish Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, TigerTedd said: You can't have it both ways though. There are people here saying martins a crap goal scorer cos he didn't score 20 goals this season, he's a whopping 8th on the top scorers chart. Then there's others saying he's not a team player. He just wanders off in a strip when he's not playing well. Yet this season, he's either scored or created the third most goals. That's while him, and the team, haven't been paying their best for big chunks of the season. Rose tinted or not, you don't have to be a statistician to be able to see that if he's not scoring, he's creating (team player), and if he's not creating, he's scoring (goal scorer). What more could you ask for? I supose you could ask for him to be in the top 1. Or the best goal scorer AND goal creator in the league. But thats like saying 'I've got billion dollars, but you know what would be better, a billion and one dollars'. So Sayers the wise man. Theres no reason to believe Martin won't be there or thereabouts again next season. There are no particular signs of him slowing down. But **** him right. He's not scored 20 goals this season, time to cut him adrift and buy Luis Suarez instead. Martin wasn't the best creator in the league,or the leading goalscorer.He had no excuses,he had a strong mid-field that cost millions.Fulham finished 20th narrowly missing relegation,yet they had 1 player who scored 21 goals and another player who scored 15. Anyway that's not really my point.I don't really care about stats,I watch them play and form my opinion on their performance.I'm afraid he was very average especially at the back of the season. He should have scored more,but didn't make the runs into the dangerous areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Martin wasn't the best creator in the league,or the leading goalscorer.He had no excuses,he had a strong mid-field that cost millions.Fulham finished 20th narrowly missing relegation,yet they had 1 player who scored 21 goals and another player who scored 15. Anyway that's not really my point.I don't really care about stats,I watch them play and form my opinion on their performance.I'm afraid he was very average especially at the back of the season. He should have scored more,but didn't make the runs into the dangerous areas. Martin created more goal scoring opportunities than any other player in the league. He was average yet only 2 players in the league was directly involved in more goals than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 hours ago, top 6 finish said: 7 strikers managed to score more than Martin and they never had Hughes and Bryson either. Really? You mean that all of 16 clubs had strikers who never scored as many as Martin? Then he can't be quite as bad as you make out then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 26 minutes ago, top 6 finish said: Martin wasn't the best creator in the league,or the leading goalscorer.He had no excuses,he had a strong mid-field that cost millions.Fulham finished 20th narrowly missing relegation,yet they had 1 player who scored 21 goals and another player who scored 15. Anyway that's not really my point.I don't really care about stats,I watch them play and form my opinion on their performance.I'm afraid he was very average especially at the back of the season. He should have scored more,but didn't make the runs into the dangerous areas. Over 90 words, when you could have just typed "I am a troll" and saved us all that effort reading. For shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I like Martin, I think he's proved one of our best signings over my 38 years following the rams. I do however feel the system we employ is focused on Chris, its aim is to get the best out of Chris. And it's successful in that regard. I do though feel we need other systems, other options and shouldn't be so reliant on the big man. Great video though, albeit a little short. I can remember quite a few moments where Chris shone this season which must have failed to make the final cut. He went two months or more without scoring too, but in that time he was creating. I don't believe he's the best striker around, but he's certainly one of the best of his type in this division, if you set up to play to his strengths. I don't believe certain others are 'the best in the league' as I often read on here. The fact we're still not going up is a big clue. And the fact nobody takes these supposed 'greats' off us. But I like them, I enjoy watching them in the main. And I understand the buzz. But there's far too much hype on forums. Someone is either completely useless or amazingly brilliant. No grey areas. Martin is closer to brilliant than he is useless though, in my grey opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Grooves Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 10 hours ago, rynny said: Martin created more goal scoring opportunities than any other player in the league. He was average yet only 2 players in the league was directly involved in more goals than him. On 20/05/2016 at 21:28, cannable said: Basically all hes done is pass the ball to a player who scored if you want to break down what 'creating goal scoring opportunities' are and if you stand about up front all match with a few fast attacking minded midfielders around you, this is going to happen. If he wasnt so lazy he would have scored more this season. Stick him in thornes position and let him flick the ball on from there, if thats all he can do. Hes not good for a team aiming to be established in the prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Exactly. He is involved in a lot of our goals because he is the only person around the box. Granted he has made some nice passes but he has been credited with assists that were school boy standard lay offs. I have watched Martin week in week out and I found him very slow, lazy and goes down far too easy so much so when he does get fouled we don't get a free kick. He certainly isn't a bad player he has his strengths but he is by far our most overrated player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, Simsy said: Exactly. He is involved in a lot of our goals because he is the only person around the box. Granted he has made some nice passes but he has been credited with assists that were school boy standard lay offs. Have you watched the video? Do you know a lot of schoolboys who play their midfielders in with back heels? The criticism "He is involved in a lot of our goals because he is the only person around the box" could literally be applied to every forward who ever played the game. What's your next amazing insight? "Carson only has a good save percentage because he's the only player on the goal line"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 17 minutes ago, Jon_Grooves said: Basically all hes done is pass the ball to a player who scored if you want to break down what 'creating goal scoring opportunities' are and if you stand about up front all match with a few fast attacking minded midfielders around you, this is going to happen. If he wasnt so lazy he would have scored more this season. Stick him in thornes position and let him flick the ball on from there, if thats all he can do. Hes not good for a team aiming to be established in the prem In what way is he lazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Martin is not the problem. Ince and Russell are the problem. If you lay a ball on a plate and your team mates fail to A) get a shot on target, or B) pass it back then your effectiveness can be undervalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 50 minutes ago, Anon said: Have you watched the video? Do you know a lot of schoolboys who play their midfielders in with back heels? The criticism "He is involved in a lot of our goals because he is the only person around the box" could literally be applied to every forward who ever played the game. What's your next amazing insight? "Carson only has a good save percentage because he's the only player on the goal line"? I don't need to watch a video I've seen enough of him for the last few years. We have 1 striker where most teams have 2. He is used as a target man where other teams don't have target men. Its got to be easier to get assists when players are constantly aiming for you up front. We need a striker who can score over 20 goals and a striker who can actually run at a defence. When we go behind I never get the feeling oh its ok Martin will turn the screw for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 We need to try finding a 4 man midfield that works and give either Weimann or bent the job and tell Martin that's how it's going to be and stick with it. I think we could sell Martin for a tidy price mind and then, it may well before some, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Jon_Grooves said: Basically all hes done is pass the ball to a player who scored if you want to break down what 'creating goal scoring opportunities' are and if you stand about up front all match with a few fast attacking minded midfielders around you, this is going to happen. If he wasnt so lazy he would have scored more this season. Stick him in thornes position and let him flick the ball on from there, if thats all he can do. Hes not good for a team aiming to be established in the prem Three assists where balls flicked over to a midfielder. One was him dispossessing Camp and knocking it towards Ince for a tap in. One was a low cross to Bryson for a tap in. Two were headed knock downs to Russell. Two were first time balls in behind to put the scorer one on one. One was a reverse pass in behind to Ince. Two were lay-offs to on-rushing players. So, really, all of his assists have created chances. Not a single one was him simply giving somebody the ball and them beating three players or whatever. As for having fast attacking midfielders around him - for about 30 games this season he was completely isolated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, rynny said: In what way is he lazy? Easy. He expects the ball to feet. If his expectations are met people call him brilliant. If not, then he's lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Simsy said: I don't need to watch a video I've seen enough of him for the last few years. We have 1 striker where most teams have 2. He is used as a target man where other teams don't have target men. Its got to be easier to get assists when players are constantly aiming for you up front. We need a striker who can score over 20 goals and a striker who can actually run at a defence. When we go behind I never get the feeling oh its ok Martin will turn the screw for us. Birmingham - Clayton Donaldson Blackburn - Danny Graham Bolton - Gary Madine Brighton - Tomer Hemed Bristol City - Wilbraham Burnley - Sam Vokes Cardiff - Jones/Revell for the first half of the season then Immers Charlton - Makienok/Sanogo Forest - they try and use O'Grady/Blackstock Ipswich - Daryl Murphy Leeds - they try and use Wood as a target man MK Dons - Church/Gallagher, resorted to signing Revell Preston - Joe Garner QPR - Sebastian Polter Reading - Orlando Sá then Kermorgant Rotherham - Jonson Clarke-Harris Wednesday - for most of the season it was either Luca Joao or Nuhiu, they no longer use one. I'd say that's the majority of the league… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 23 minutes ago, cannable said: Birmingham - Clayton Donaldson Blackburn - Danny Graham Bolton - Gary Madine Brighton - Tomer Hemed Bristol City - Wilbraham Burnley - Sam Vokes Cardiff - Jones/Revell for the first half of the season then Immers Charlton - Makienok/Sanogo Forest - they try and use O'Grady/Blackstock Ipswich - Daryl Murphy Leeds - they try and use Wood as a target man MK Dons - Church/Gallagher, resorted to signing Revell Preston - Joe Garner QPR - Sebastian Polter Reading - Orlando Sá then Kermorgant Rotherham - Jonson Clarke-Harris Wednesday - for most of the season it was either Luca Joao or Nuhiu, they no longer use one. I'd say that's the majority of the league… All are not target men or play with another strike partner which my original post implied. Graham is but hasn't been there all season. Donaldson runs in behind. Hemed has a strike partner as does Vokes. Garner certainly is not a target man or Sa. For the teams like Charlton mk dons Rotherham and Bristol I have no idea of their systems or quality of those players but with them being so **** it doesn't really matter does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 6 minutes ago, Simsy said: All are not target men or play with another strike partner which my original post implied. Graham is but hasn't been there all season. Donaldson runs in behind. Hemed has a strike partner as does Vokes. Garner certainly is not a target man or Sa. For the teams like Charlton mk dons Rotherham and Bristol I have no idea of their systems or quality of those players but with them being so **** it doesn't really matter does it. It doesn't matter whether they're in a front two or not, their jobs in theory is to bring others into the game, be it a striker partner or a midfielder. They were, and in Garner's case, still are used as target men due to their height. You can't just turn around and say they don't really matter because of the team's they were in. The point stands. Most teams in the division try and use a target man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 7 minutes ago, cannable said: It doesn't matter whether they're in a front two or not, their jobs in theory is to bring others into the game, be it a striker partner or a midfielder. They were, and in Garner's case, still are used as target men due to their height. You can't just turn around and say they don't really matter because of the team's they were in. The point stands. Most teams in the division try and use a target man. The guys like 5 ft 8! Joe Garner right? My original post was saying if you have two up front you are not solely aimed at as they have 2 strikers to aim for. You can argue we need Martin as a target man but we need someone with him to score the goals because he hasn't scored enough consistently even though he has a decent return. You pointed out Vokes. Well his strike partner has notched plenty! So I am guessing Vokes has been involved in a lot of burnleys goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I don't see Chris Martin as a target man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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