Wassall Out?

[archied]

I think we need to remember Mel Morris will be hurting like us after yesterday , the big thing is will he be hurting enough to accept that though he loves the club , has the best intentions for the club and has pumped his own money into it ,he has played a part in what has been an extremely frustrating season for the club and reevaluate his plans? Two total novices appointed in a row has produced exactly what you would expect , a team that is totally without direction, identity and floundering like a rudderless ship, we need to lose the fear of big characters in the manager stakes ,,, we need a big character who is in charge of the footballing side of things

[Nuwtfly]

Absolutely cannot wait for Tuesday to be over and done with. Wassall can go back to the academy, or to the job centre, or wherever, and we can all finally move on from this absolute **** show of a season.

Wake me when it's Wednesday. 

[mwram1973]

1 minute ago, archied said:

I think we need to remember Mel Morris will be hurting like us after yesterday , the big thing is will he be hurting enough to accept that though he loves the club , has the best intentions for the club and has pumped his own money into it ,he has played a part in what has been an extremely frustrating season for the club and reevaluate his plans? Two total novices appointed in a row has produced exactly what you would expect , a team that is totally without direction, identity and floundering like a rudderless ship, we need to lose the fear of big characters in the manager stakes ,,, we need a big character who is in charge of the footballing side of things

Don't 100% agree with the appointment statement, clement came with a good pedigree as an assistant, as mourinho did when he took his first job. Sure there were a few managers out there he could have gone for but those managers are the same ones who sit on the merry go round, sure they do ok for a start but inevitably they get sacked and move onto the next job.

The wassall appointment is probably because the man MM wants isn't available till the summer, just a thought and could be wrong. Yes he said darren would be considered but he's hardly going to say he isn't is he.

I think we should wait and see. For me MM has done nothing wrong. He appointed a man in PC that at the interview level was on board with everything, once he had the job he ignored the plan and tried to go off in his own direction which got him the sack. This happens in every business, don't do what your manager/boss asks you and you get sacked.

I do agree we need a big character and would love Pearson.

[Posh Ram]

9 minutes ago, mwram1973 said:

Why?

If I owned the club and thought them players wasn't pulling their weight, I'd be in there telling them too.

AND I'd stop the xmas break too. Why should overpaid players with obvious quality be able to stroll around and only play when they feel like it AND be rewarded for it.

Them players need to man up. Mels a hard nosed businessman and he could see they are not pulling their weight.

If the players then go on a sulk, it says alot about them and should not be blamed on MM

I would like to say i'm not including Keogh, for me that guy bleeds black and white. 

Do you really think that's an appropriate way to lead a team who are admittedly underperforming but trying their best?

The uplift in results from Clement to Wassall is surely indicative that what these players need is a guy who can motivate them and sympathise with them rather than be a distant, authoritarian "boss"? No I don't know either of them personally but that's how Wassall and Clement came across.

You're entitled to your opinion but for me the whole in the dressing room/Christmas break fiasco proves that Morris is a wannabe manager who has no idea what he's doing. He needs to be like Sam Rush - professional. This is why individual fans owning clubs has never been a good idea, too much passion involved. I'm sure most of us would behave in the same way but it sets a terrible precedent, Mel really needs to take a step back. 

[DRBee]

2 hours ago, GboroRam said:

There's no guarantees in football. All the people who are angry at Wass's appointment, saying that's the reason why we won't be promoted - it's guesswork. They don't want to admit that but it feeds the ego, telling everyone you knew this would happen (and of course you know what should have been done differently). Frustratingly some of them almost sound like they want failure to self validate their predictions. Being right for  them is more important than seeing success. That's what it looks like to me.

This claim is  one way of allowing you to keep your views unchallenged - the reality is that if we had been successful the criticisms could be dismissed. But we haven't been successful, though injuries have played an  unfortunate part.

Instead we have humiliation and frustration and also the indifference that has persisted from some months. Some of us were not happy at the Clement and Wassall appointments at the time and said so. Its no pleasure it hasn't worked.

 

To pretend Wassall is a competent manager won't wash, though he might be an inexperienced manager put in an impossible position. We going to have to start all over again now having wasted months that could have been preparation.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

I think the football that has been played under Wassall has been better than under Clement generally. Don't agree with the lack of playing time for Darren Bent however.

[G STAR RAM]

When are people going to realise that having a manager with experience does not guarantee you anything?

Do I really have to list the clubs that finished below us who have more experienced managers?

And what about the teams that went up last year? How many combined Championship years experience did the managers have between them...was it 3 or 4?

It's an age old cliche that means pretty much zilch. The managerial positions are one big merry go round so inevitably managers that suceed have probably had success before.

If there are managers out there that have done it regularly at this level with different clubs then maybe I would accept that but they are few and far between. 

[Rammeister]

Charisma. Gravitas. Credibility.

Clough, Mackay, Cox, Smith had all three in spades.

The rest including Wassall did not.

These are the attributes that we need our next manager to have.

And, I'll tell you this...we will all know the day our next manager is appointed whether he will be successful by just considering these three things.

[mwram1973]

52 minutes ago, Posh Ram said:

Do you really think that's an appropriate way to lead a team who are admittedly underperforming but trying their best?

The uplift in results from Clement to Wassall is surely indicative that what these players need is a guy who can motivate them and sympathise with them rather than be a distant, authoritarian "boss"? No I don't know either of them personally but that's how Wassall and Clement came across.

You're entitled to your opinion but for me the whole in the dressing room/Christmas break fiasco proves that Morris is a wannabe manager who has no idea what he's doing. He needs to be like Sam Rush - professional. This is why individual fans owning clubs has never been a good idea, too much passion involved. I'm sure most of us would behave in the same way but it sets a terrible precedent, Mel really needs to take a step back. 

If players cannot get motivated with the chance of playing in the highest level then it doesn't matter who the manager is.

I'm probably old school but if your doing something you love as a job and being paid stupid amounts on top of that, surely that is enough motivation for them to do well.

The whole dressing room thing is blown out of proportion in my opinion, should he have done it?, well that will divide opinion but to blame the issues on the pitch to that 1 incident is to be fair, clutching at straws and shouts out to me that people just want to blame something for our failure to get promoted.

If all the players played with the same passion and commitment that Keogh has shown this season we'd of pissed this league. That's why he won both poty awards.

[Bris Vegas]

Mel Morris has a tough decision ahead of him. Does he want to stick with the Swansea model of bringing in a manager who will play the possession-based 4-3-3 and keep with the system, or does he go out and bring in a renowned manager such as Nigel Pearson but give him enough time to clear the decks and mould his own team.

If we can't get Brendan Rodgers, I'm unsure who else really fits the criteria for keeping with what we have.

I'd be willing to give us time, get Pearson in and clear the decks. But doing that and I feel we'll have to ultimately get rid of a few players I genuinely like, such as Bryson, Martin and perhaps even Thorne.

 

[TETRA]

1 hour ago, archied said:

I think we need to remember Mel Morris will be hurting like us after yesterday , the big thing is will he be hurting enough to accept that though he loves the club , has the best intentions for the club and has pumped his own money into it ,he has played a part in what has been an extremely frustrating season for the club and reevaluate his plans? Two total novices appointed in a row has produced exactly what you would expect , a team that is totally without direction, identity and floundering like a rudderless ship, we need to lose the fear of big characters in the manager stakes ,,, we need a big character who is in charge of the footballing side of things

Sadly I don't think Mel Morris is the type of person or character who will except or show any public criticism for any of his action this season, if you think he will then I think you'll be very disappointed.

But unless he gets the right manager in with a proven success record in The Championship & leave that person alone to do the job, then I really fear for us next season as well.

For all the limited information we've heard regarding what the position might be for the Club based on the massive amount of money he's spent on players this season in a big financial gamble to go up this season, whatever has been said otherwise. The outcome could well be a far more restricted budget next season, we certainly won't be able to spend yet another £25 Million without really falling foul in a big way of FFP Rules, if we haven't already. Any new manager will need to have a big clear out, but if we sell some of the players we bought last summer, for one will they go based on their wages & length of contract & two will we get anywhere near the overpriced value we paid for them originally ?. I'd be worried on both counts. 

Whoever Mel decides to take over as are new Manager of Head Coach will have a big job on his hands this summer that's for sure. Let's hope Mel has more patience this time & leaves him to what has to be done.

[SSD]

I think we need a complete rebuild of the squad, the core of this team has been together for at least 2-3 seasons and unfortunately they've bottled it again. Even with a manager like Pearson, the character to win big matches is seriously lacking in the team. I'd try and build a team around Hughes, he's are main man and we're going to be struggling to keep him every season. Top teams freshen things up every 3 seasons, look at what Fergie did at Man Utd. He wasn't afraid to sell his big players because he replaced them with the same amount of quality consistently. If Martin, Keogh, Ince etc want to leave then let them. I don't mind if we try and rebuild a squad that'll challenge the top six in 2-3 seasons. Our squad have had their chance. Time to bring in an experienced manager who'll inject some authority into the team, play some of the U21's who clearly have shown their talents and build for a future Championship winning team.

[Posh Ram]

1 hour ago, mwram1973 said:

If players cannot get motivated with the chance of playing in the highest level then it doesn't matter who the manager is.

I'm probably old school but if your doing something you love as a job and being paid stupid amounts on top of that, surely that is enough motivation for them to do well.

The whole dressing room thing is blown out of proportion in my opinion, should he have done it?, well that will divide opinion but to blame the issues on the pitch to that 1 incident is to be fair, clutching at straws and shouts out to me that people just want to blame something for our failure to get promoted.

If all the players played with the same passion and commitment that Keogh has shown this season we'd of pissed this league. That's why he won both poty awards.

Morris' criticism doesn't seemed to have stemmed from a lack of effort though.

"Q) Do you regret going into the dressing room after the Reading game?

A) No I don't.

I felt that game was probably an example of what we don't want to see from a Derby side That game we struggled to put two passes together."

That strikes me as him shouting at the lads because they didn't perform well, despite trying, which I think is a bit unacceptable, especially when he's not the manager.

It's true that Keogh shows brilliant commitment for Derby, so does Buxton. But that's not why we lost yesterday. Bruce destroyed Wassall tactically, we were lacking in quality, and luck didn't go our way. 

[CornwallRam]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

When are people going to realise that having a manager with experience does not guarantee you anything?

Do I really have to list the clubs that finished below us who have more experienced managers?

And what about the teams that went up last year? How many combined Championship years experience did the managers have between them...was it 3 or 4?

It's an age old cliche that means pretty much zilch. The managerial positions are one big merry go round so inevitably managers that suceed have probably had success before.

If there are managers out there that have done it regularly at this level with different clubs then maybe I would accept that but they are few and far between. 

Of course there are no guarantees, but having an experienced manager appears to give clubs a better chance of promotion. I reckon that 3 'inexperienced' managers have gained promotion in the six season before this one.  Few overseas coaches have gained promotion recently either - 3 (4 if Shef Wed go up) in the last 7 seasons.

2009–10 Chris Hughton, Roberto Di Matteo, Ian Holloway

2010–11 Neil Warnock, Paul Lambert, Brendan Rodgers

2011–12 Brian McDermott, Nigel Adkins, Sam Allardyce

2012–13 Malky Mackay, Steve Bruce, Ian Holloway

2013–14 Nigel Pearson, Sean Dyche, Harry Redknapp

2014–15 Eddie Howe, Slaviša Jokanović, Alex Neil

2015-16 Sean Dyche, Aitor Karanka, ?

[G STAR RAM]

I would say more experienced managers have failed them suceeded this year so cannot see how it gives you a better chance.

How many on that list had lots of Championship experience? And how many have done it more than once?

[DEL]

3 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Absolutely cannot wait for Tuesday to be over and done with. Wassall can go back to the academy, or to the job centre, or wherever, and we can all finally move on from this absolute **** show of a season.

Wake me when it's Wednesday. 

He might still be in charge next season. 

[CornwallRam]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I would say more experienced managers have failed them suceeded this year so cannot see how it gives you a better chance.

How many on that list had lots of Championship experience? And how many have done it more than once?

That's an interesting question, but not as straightforward as it first appears. Many managers on that list haven't managed in the Championship again. Just from memory, the ones that have are-

Sean Dyche, Malky Mackay, Steve Bruce, Ian Holloway, Brian McDermott, Nigel Adkins, Neil Warnock and Chris Hughton 

Sean Dyche, Steve Bruce, and Ian Holloway have had subsequent promotions so 37.5% have done it again.

If Brighton manage a minor miracle then Chris Hughton would bring that figure to 50%

Neil Warnock had a previous promotion, so you might even consider the repeated success figure as even greater.

 

Interestingly, I reckon that six managers on that list have previous promotions from different divisions behind them. I'd say that a successful record is a definite indicator that promotion is more likely with a manager who has a previous record of promotion.

 

And of course, there are always more managers that don't achieve promotion than do - 87.5% of Championship managers every season will fail to get promoted - and that's if no one gets replaced mid-season. To suggest that negates the obvious correlation between previous and future success is a little tenuous.

[Eatonram]

6 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I don't want to sound abrupt, but i wish all you mel bashers would engage that small organ in your head before typing!!.

So Mel coming in has put us in a worse position than 12 months ago then eh?

Lets look at that.

2014/2015 finished 7th

2015/2016 finished 5th. 

Pumped multi millions of his OWN money to buy players that CLEMENT wanted, how the **** is he to blame for putting his trust into his manager if he says that player will improve the team.

Who have we sold in the last 12 months that's been so important to this team and not replaced him?.

He's pumping his OWN money into massively improving our acadamy/ training facilities to make it in the top 5 in the ****** WORLD!!!.

Yeah were in a right mess now.

If you all think this guy has ruined the club PISS OFF AND SUPPORT BURTON, I'm getting sick of reading these ill informed posts from people who have just spat their dummy out cos we lost.

 

My thoughts to a tee, particularly the last sentence. Well sid MW, and it needed saying in those terms.

[McRamFan]

7 hours ago, mwram1973 said:

I don't want to sound abrupt, but i wish all you mel bashers would engage that small organ in your head before typing!!.

So Mel coming in has put us in a worse position than 12 months ago then eh?

Lets look at that.

2014/2015 finished 7th

2015/2016 finished 5th. 

Pumped multi millions of his OWN money to buy players that CLEMENT wanted, how the **** is he to blame for putting his trust into his manager if he says that player will improve the team.

Who have we sold in the last 12 months that's been so important to this team and not replaced him?.

He's pumping his OWN money into massively improving our acadamy/ training facilities to make it in the top 5 in the ****** WORLD!!!.

Yeah were in a right mess now.

If you all think this guy has ruined the club PISS OFF AND SUPPORT BURTON, I'm getting sick of reading these ill informed posts from people who have just spat their dummy out cos we lost.

 

Take the quote as a second like, agree 100%.

[Ewe Ram]

What he said ^^^

im sick of seeing people say that Wassall is a clown. Dummy spitting. Mel is also most certainly deserving of a bit more respect.