Wassall Out?

[toddy]

8 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

You've quickly reverted to the 'we need experience' line.

Which managers that are available, have had success more than once at this level?

I have not reverted we need more experience, it something I raised in Feb when Wassall was installed, time, you've got to give him time  is what was muttered by the happy clappers back then, well he has had enough time and finished with a worse record than Clement

Why does success have to be more than once?

Success is success, what's more important is if that success was recent and not donkeys years ago.

Two novice coach's this season both failed, perhaps experience is what is now required?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, toddy said:

I have not reverted we need more experience, it something I raised in Feb when Wassall was installed, time, you've got to give him time  is what was muttered by the happy clappers back then, well he has had enough time and finished with a worse record than Clement

Why does success have to be more than once?

Success is success, what's more important is if that success was recent and not donkeys years ago.

Two novice coach's this season both failed, perhaps experience is what is now required?

Yet he finished in a higher position than a former England manager who had also taken Middlesbrough to a European final...did he have experience?

As I have said, there are plenty of experienced managers that have failed in this division this year.

Mick McCarthy

Kenny Jackett

Paul Lambert

Dougie Freeman

Brian McDermott

I imagine all of their teams finished below where the fans expected yet they are all managers that are experienced in this division.

Yet to see anything that makes me think that there is any correlation between experience and guaranteed success.

 

[toddy]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yet he finished in a higher position than a former England manager who had also taken Middlesbrough to a European final...did he have experience?

As I have said, there are plenty of experienced managers that have failed in this division this year.

Mick McCarthy

Kenny Jackett

Paul Lambert

Dougie Freeman

Brian McDermott

I imagine all of their teams finished below where the fans expected yet they are all managers that are experienced in this division.

Yet to see anything that makes me think that there is any correlation between experience and guaranteed success.

 

None of the managers you have mentioned have had the financial backing as we had.

Yep you are quite right experience does guarantee  success, but experience  brings the knowledge of what is required to get out of this division, if you have the financial backing of an owner like Mel then an experience coach has all the tools at his disposal.

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, toddy said:

None of the managers you have mentioned have had the financial backing as we had.

Yep you are quite right experience does guarantee  success, but experience  brings the knowledge of what is required to get out of this division, if you have the financial backing of an owner like Mel then an experience coach has all the tools at his disposal.

So experience is not the key then, more knowing how to handle a big budget?

[toddy]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

So experience is not the key then, more knowing how to handle a big budget?

Ideally you need a budget, the bigger the better.

I wonder how Mac would have done if the money Clement had was available to him back in March 14. We had all those injuries, Martin out and Bent out at the same time, defenders out injured. If the board had said to Mac,  not to worry about loosing half the first team, we'll bring in some experienced loan players pay big salaries,  till May. But gain promotion and build in the summer.

Remember bulk of Mac's side was Cloughs .....on a budget. 

 

[toddy]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So experience is not the key then, more knowing how to handle a big budget?

Experience  with a budget is the golden nugget and that's why you named all those coach's  earlier they all had one thing in common, very limited budgets.

[GboroRam]

Experience plus money equals success? 

Cough Paul Jewell cough.

[Inglorius]

1 minute ago, GboroRam said:

Experience plus money equals success? 

Cough Paul Jewell cough.

You're being deliberately contentious now we would have been better going to round up the local Sunday pub league offerings than the players we bought for those sums of monies. Looking at the capital outlay on transfers over the last year it doesn't seem like we've learnt a lot from Jewells era 

[archied]

56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yet he finished in a higher position than a former England manager who had also taken Middlesbrough to a European final...did he have experience?

As I have said, there are plenty of experienced managers that have failed in this division this year.

Mick McCarthy

Kenny Jackett

Paul Lambert

Dougie Freeman

Brian McDermott

I imagine all of their teams finished below where the fans expected yet they are all managers that are experienced in this division.

Yet to see anything that makes me think that there is any correlation between experience and guaranteed success.

 

You are part right,,, there are and never can be any garuntees , but to be fair you are using that undeniable statement to hide behind ,,, it is also an undeniable fact that choosing a candidate with experience and a proven track record increases the chances of success? In all fields there are people who are better at their chosen job than others and choosing the best you can afford and can get then giving them the best tools you can give them to do that job increases your chances of being sucessfull , you are right ,, this is sport and even more so a team sport so no there is no 100 percent garuantee but come on fairs fair you know why people want an experienced manager with a decent track record and rightly so ,, otherwise lets just pick a fan from the stands ? There's no garuantee wass will be any better than them?

[G STAR RAM]

42 minutes ago, toddy said:

Ideally you need a budget, the bigger the better.

I wonder how Mac would have done if the money Clement had was available to him back in March 14. We had all those injuries, Martin out and Bent out at the same time, defenders out injured. If the board had said to Mac,  not to worry about loosing half the first team, we'll bring in some experienced loan players pay big salaries,  till May. But gain promotion and build in the summer.

Remember bulk of Mac's side was Cloughs .....on a budget. 

 

One of our most successful managers, and one who had bags of experience, Arthur Cox was once given a massive budget for this division and he failed with it.

The point I am making, or at least I think I am trying to make, is that there is no set template for management.

Some managers fail where you think they would suceed and some thrive against all odds.

I think there are very few factors which can significantly swing the odds one way or the other.

[GboroRam]

30 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

You're being deliberately contentious now we would have been better going to round up the local Sunday pub league offerings than the players we bought for those sums of monies. Looking at the capital outlay on transfers over the last year it doesn't seem like we've learnt a lot from Jewells era 

Highlighting that experience doesn't protect you from getting it wrong. Look at McLaren and Newcastle. Successful here (to a limit) and backed financially. Not denying that experience isn't a good thing but I think DW has experience that nobody else could bring at the time - genuine knowledge and insight about the squad and the club. We've been desperately inconsistent since he took the reins - great performances mixed with terrible capitulation  (more of the former than the latter). He's not been the disaster he's been portrayed as - and there's no guarantee another manager couldn't be the same or far, far worse.

[TETRA]

3 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

What he said ^^^

im sick of seeing people say that Wassall is a clown. Dummy spitting. Mel is also most certainly deserving of a bit more respect. 

Wassall not a clown he's just unfortunately out of his depth. As for Mel of course he deserves respect it's his hard earn't money he's investing after all & it's clear he loves the Club. But as we all know a good Chairman sometimes needs more than just money & his love of a Club to make it successful both on & off the pitch.

[Rampage]

Wassall back to Academy but done with respect and good timing. thanks Darren for all your efforts, mate

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, TETRA said:

Wassall not a clown he's just unfortunately out of his depth.

Then maybe he's out of his depth elsewhere. Can't say his behaviour has convinced me he's right for the Academy tbh.

[Wolfie20]

Whether you think Wassall should or shouldn't have been appointed in the first instance or whether his record and management since he took over justifies giving him the job on a permanent basis, I feel that we may have reached the point where he's in a no-win situation and I'd be staggered if MM confirms him as our manager going into next season.

Rarely does a new manager come in when there's significant resistance to his appointment and then make a success of the job. Wassalls' position is even more difficult, with many seeing him as a failure since taking over. To make his role permanent will allienate many fans and massively increase the pressure on him - not sure this is something MM will risk.

[Day]

2 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said:

Rarely does a new manager come in when there's significant resistance to his appointment and then make a success of the job. Wassalls' position is even more difficult, with many seeing him as a failure since taking over. To make his role permanent will allienate many fans and massively increase the pressure on him - not sure this is something MM will risk.

Genuine question, is there a huge negative feeling towards Wassall in the pubs and at the ground during the game?

Social media is always fickle and I'd hate for any appointment to be decided on that and forums such as this which are make up for a small minority. 

[Rampage]

Wassall and Mel are friends so it should be done in respectful manner as we want that friendship to continue with Wassall as Academy boss and his head held high.

90% of Derby fans should have known that Derby County were not sustainable Premiership material before this game.

We all know it after the game.COYR

[i-Ram]

6 minutes ago, David said:

Genuine question, is there a huge negative feeling towards Wassall in the pubs and at the ground during the game?

I can tell you that he is not to popular in my lounge.

[Wolfie20]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Genuine question, is there a huge negative feeling towards Wassall in the pubs and at the ground during the game?

Social media is always fickle and I'd hate for any appointment to be decided on that and forums such as this which are make up for a small minority. 

Not living in Derby, i can't answer on the pub opinions and I tend to pay no attention to views expressed via the likes of Twitter where comments are cheap (even more so than forums!).

I'm not sure there's a "huge" negative feeling towards Wassall but I get the feeling it's sizeable and growing.

[G STAR RAM]

49 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Then maybe he's out of his depth elsewhere. Can't say his behaviour has convinced me he's right for the Academy tbh.

Wow.