Jason Shackell

[Shuff264]

Hes a calm centre back, who has an excellent left foot. Was always a good passer of the ball and a threat from corners. For the short time that him and Barker played together, they looked excellent. 

I'd make him the best player we've sold in the last three seasons, maybe last five but my memory aint that great

[Mostyn6]

I did try to edit that to make it clear I wasn't being entirely serious, especially considering we know that Mostyn doesn't even rate Keogh!

Keogh suits our passing game better than Shackell, but there is surely no question who the better defender is, and has been for the past 3 seasons. As people have said above maybe a combination of the two would be perfect (Sean Dyche appeared to agree?). If only the powers that be back in 2011 could have afforded us that financial luxury in the way they have done recently. 

It seems strange Mostyn pointing to Shackell's Premier League relegations though, has he ever been relegated from The Championship?

Wembley, wembley, wembley... yet again it's only the people defending Keogh who bring Wembley up!  My opinion of Keogh vs Shackell certainly isn't based on Wembley! I do wish people would stop bringing that up!

​First point I was making was people saying 'No' to Barton for this reason, and emphasis that Barton has spent 2 seasons out of the Premier League in his career, whilst Shackell only 2 IN the Premier League.

Simply, people here are over-rating him cos of how he stood out in a poor Derby team, and I'm not doubting his potential. But at 32 and still be a "potentially" good player, having never pulled it all together, doesn't bode well.

We could and should be aiming more positively (higher) for someone much younger (to improve) or much better, or both.

I predict that if we don't sign Shackell, he will fizzle out to be another mid-table level defender, which is his level.

[North_Stand_Ram]

Remember he's got a promotion under his belt now. Burnley have had a fairly successful season, but have struggled to score, but their defensive record has been good. 

[Mostyn6]

Why has no one taken a point on Ryan Shawcross or James Tomkins? Two brilliant defenders this year? There could be any number of reasons. He's bottom half/ top of the championship standard, any day of the week for me.

Oh yea and Terry supposedly entered his "twilight" of his career 4 seasons ago.

​odd examples. Both are currently mid-table in the Premier league and been at their current clubs a long time.

Shackell was nomadic until Burnley, and in all that time, nobody was interested.

[Day]

​odd examples. Both are currently mid-table in the Premier league and been at their current clubs a long time.

Shackell was nomadic until Burnley, and in all that time, nobody was interested.

​Come on Mostyn, it's a poor argument really to prove your point which isn't really a point, how many Premier League or promotion chasing teams showed any interest in Martin? 

It's ok to admit you are wrong, we have all been there, we won't hold it against you. 

[Shaftesbury Street]

​odd examples. Both are currently mid-table in the Premier league and been at their current clubs a long time.

Shackell was nomadic until Burnley, and in all that time, nobody was interested.

So no ones has taken a punt on these players because they have been at their clubs a long time?

Out of curiosity, would you take Robert Huth over Shackell?

[Mostyn6]

​Come on Mostyn, it's a poor argument really to prove your point which isn't really a point, how many Premier League or promotion chasing teams showed any interest in Martin? 

It's ok to admit you are wrong, we have all been there, we won't hold it against you. 

​

So no ones has taken a punt on these players because they have been at their clubs a long time?

Out of curiosity, would you take Robert Huth over Shackell?

​okay, I admit, i'm struggling to make the relevant point. I admit whilst he was here, he was one of the better players, but he's in the past, isn't brilliant, and won't take us forwards/upwards (all in my opinion). Gareth Roberts looked good in that season too!

I probably would take Huth over Shackell, he's more committed in my opinion.

I may stand alone on this, quality is NOT enough for me. The flip side, effort alone is not enough for me. If you could take Shackell's class and Keogh's attitude, you could merge them into an awesome player, but my opinion is, for the bits Shackell did well, he lacked the desire (which O'Brien showed in abundance at the same time) which we will need to progress.

Leave him in the past.

[May Contain Nuts]

​First point I was making was people saying 'No' to Barton for this reason, and emphasis that Barton has spent 2 seasons out of the Premier League in his career, whilst Shackell only 2 IN the Premier League.

Simply, people here are over-rating him cos of how he stood out in a poor Derby team, and I'm not doubting his potential. But at 32 and still be a "potentially" good player, having never pulled it all together, doesn't bode well.

We could and should be aiming more positively (higher) for someone much younger (to improve) or much better, or both.

I predict that if we don't sign Shackell, he will fizzle out to be another mid-table level defender, which is his level.

Fine re: Barton, I've not seen that argument so excuse my ignorance of it.

Shackell only potentially good? I'm not judging him on how he played for us 4 years ago, I'm judging him on the fact that he's captained a side (who conceded only 37 goals) to automatic promotion from this league and in doing so has shown a capability beyond any of the players currently in our squad!

This season Burnley have conceded less goals in the Premier League than we did in The Championship.

Honestly, I don't consider very much beyond 2 seasons ago in football as a valid reference point, sometimes not even that.

[Albert]

​odd examples. Both are currently mid-table in the Premier league and been at their current clubs a long time.

Shackell was nomadic until Burnley, and in all that time, nobody was interested.

​Nomadic?

Jason Shackell

[1] Norwich, Trainee to 2009: 119 apperances

[2] Wolves, 2008-10: 12 appearances

Norwich (Loan 2008-09): 14 appearances

Doncaster (Loan, 2009-10): 21 appearances

[3] Barnsley, 2010-11: 44 appearances

[4] Derby, 2011-12: 46 apperances

[5] Burnley, 2012-*: 126 appearances

He's played at 6 clubs in his career, and has only been contracted permanently at 5. Not exactly that nomadic for a player rapidly approaching 32. Keogh's played for 10 different clubs if I recall right, yet I don't here people calling him nomadic. 

I get that you have a tendency to not like players, and like to be a contrary hipster about such things, but the simple point is that people didn't want rid of Shackell at the time, and thought he was a decent player. I doubt we're actually in for him, and I doubt we'll see him back, but he certainly wouldn't be a bad signing, at the right price, and could potentially solve a lot of the defensive woes from this season and give some much needed steel and consistency. We'll see what happens. 

Anyhow, to confirm, you had previously said you think that Keogh was mistake prone. You did however, in the same breath compliment Shackell quite a lot:

Shackell for me is a footballer, he reads the game and has good technical ability. His size,shape and speed have determined that he ended up a defender, but I think if he was smaller, lighter, faster etc, could've played any position.

 

Keogh is a warrior. He has no real technical quality or ability, but never hides. There is a lot to be admired about Keogh and if he's beaten, it won't be for lack of trying. Sadly though, he's prone to mistakes and hoofball.

 

As a spectator, I would have Keogh. Shackell may be the best footballer in his back-garden, but it's no good if you ain't committed out on the pitch. I don't agree that Keogh is better on the strength of goals-scored, that's like buying a car because it floats on water better than another car!

 

If I was a manager, I would pick Shackell and hope to inspire him to be as committed as Keogh. If he was as committed as Keogh, he wouldn't be playing at mid-table Championship level.

​Of course, 12 months later he was dominating in defence on his way into the Premier League, but that's another story. 

[ramsbottom]

I can't belive many people, well mostly Mostyn, wouldn't have Shackell over Keogh.  IMHO Shackell is twice the defender Keogh is.  I don't care that Keogh is a warrior and shows his commitment to the cause, every member of this forum would run through brick walls on a football pitch if it meant playing for Derby, doesn't make up for our lack of skill.

Could it be that Shackell doesn't look to be as commited because he doesn't lunge about the place, making blood & thunder last minute blocks, or death-defying last gasp headers at knee height like Keogh does???  That's not a question of commitment, that's spotting a danger from the opposition's attack and neutralising it before it comes to having to make a last second block on the six yard line.  Work smarter, not harder...

[StringerBell]

​This, this and this again.

This what? This what? This what?

[Mostyn6]

​Nomadic?

Jason Shackell

[1] Norwich, Trainee to 2009: 119 apperances

[2] Wolves, 2008-10: 12 appearances

Norwich (Loan 2008-09): 14 appearances

Doncaster (Loan, 2009-10): 21 appearances

[3] Barnsley, 2010-11: 44 appearances

[4] Derby, 2011-12: 46 apperances

[5] Burnley, 2012-*: 126 appearances

He's played at 6 clubs in his career, and has only been contracted permanently at 5. Not exactly that nomadic for a player rapidly approaching 32. Keogh's played for 10 different clubs if I recall right, yet I don't here people calling him nomadic. 

I get that you have a tendency to not like players, and like to be a contrary hipster about such things, but the simple point is that people didn't want rid of Shackell at the time, and thought he was a decent player. I doubt we're actually in for him, and I doubt we'll see him back, but he certainly wouldn't be a bad signing, at the right price, and could potentially solve a lot of the defensive woes from this season and give some much needed steel and consistency. We'll see what happens. 

Anyhow, to confirm, you had previously said you think that Keogh was mistake prone. You did however, in the same breath compliment Shackell quite a lot:

​Of course, 12 months later he was dominating in defence on his way into the Premier League, but that's another story. 

​so 6 different clubs in 5 years is not nomadic?

I wasn't talking about Keogh, so I wouldn't mention his lack of ability to settle. My feelings on Keogh though are well known. 

I'm impressed you found that old post, I read it and couldn't remember writing it, but at least my opinion on both players remains the same.

For reference, my opinion is usually given before anyone else's. I doubt you can fairly say my opinions are influenced by ambitions to be 'hipster' and contrary on those grounds.

It's not that I don't 'like' players, I just don't rate them the same as others. But on the flipside, I like Mascarell, Albentosa and Dawkins! Does that make me hipster contrary? lol

My opinion on Shackell hasn't changed by what I've seen of him in claret and blue either. He's rightly been part of a very well balanced side where the sum of parts is greater than the means. For me, he still lacks as much steel as he should be showing and whenever a goal is conceded, he's somewhere in the middle of it not doing something due to lack of bravery!

Hendrick will probably be judged similarly if he doesn't learn to be physical very soon!

[Mostyn6]

I can't belive many people, well mostly Mostyn, wouldn't have Shackell over Keogh.  IMHO Shackell is twice the defender Keogh is.  I don't care that Keogh is a warrior and shows his commitment to the cause, every member of this forum would run through brick walls on a football pitch if it meant playing for Derby, doesn't make up for our lack of skill.

Could it be that Shackell doesn't look to be as commited because he doesn't lunge about the place, making blood & thunder last minute blocks, or death-defying last gasp headers at knee height like Keogh does???  That's not a question of commitment, that's spotting a danger from the opposition's attack and neutralising it before it comes to having to make a last second block on the six yard line.  Work smarter, not harder...

​I think you've come into halfway and not read why I wouldn't want Shackell so I cannot be arsed to entertain you with a response! 

[cheron85]

I always thought Shackell was an incredibly selfish player... Played his position well and solidly... great on the ball (anyone remember the game he played LB... bloody stormed it!)...

BUT he never had ANY intention of trying to provide cover for anyone else's weaknesses... There were so many times when Bucko had been beaten for pace and Shackell was just jogging along with a "he's your man mate" attitude...

If I could have a player of his quality but with Bucko's mentality then you're on to a winner... as it is I'm totally neutral to the idea of him coming back (not for OR against.. just 'meh')

[Albert]

​so 6 different clubs in 5 years is not nomadic?

I wasn't talking about Keogh, so I wouldn't mention his lack of ability to settle. My feelings on Keogh though are well known. 

I'm impressed you found that old post, I read it and couldn't remember writing it, but at least my opinion on both players remains the same.

For reference, my opinion is usually given before anyone else's. I doubt you can fairly say my opinions are influenced by ambitions to be 'hipster' and contrary on those grounds.

It's not that I don't 'like' players, I just don't rate them the same as others. But on the flipside, I like Mascarell, Albentosa and Dawkins! Does that make me hipster contrary? lol

My opinion on Shackell hasn't changed by what I've seen of him in claret and blue either. He's rightly been part of a very well balanced side where the sum of parts is greater than the means. For me, he still lacks as much steel as he should be showing and whenever a goal is conceded, he's somewhere in the middle of it not doing something due to lack of bravery!

Hendrick will probably be judged similarly if he doesn't learn to be physical very soon!

​It seems I hit on a nerve on the hipster part. Sorry about that. 

Anyhow, fair enough. I wouldn't call 6 clubs over a career "nomadic". Players sometimes get in an unsettled part of their career and move around for a bit, but he was at Norwich for a long time, and at Burnley for a long time now as well. Nomadic players are the type that simply can't settle anywhere, he certainly isn't one of them. 

I find it a bit odd that people have written Albentosa off so quickly as well, but we'll see how it all looks with a preseason. 

[Tombo]

"Although I am sad to see Jason leave, we have Jake Buxton, Tom Naylor and Mark O'Brien, who have all proved to be more than capable at performing in the Championship."

​Absolute corker.

[Rammed79]

I would prefer someone younger and hungrier for success would have been a good signing few years ago but not now he is winding down his career still a good player but not right for us we would have to buy again if promoted.

[Anon]

Why did Shackell actually leave in the first place?

As far as I understand it the official line is that he wanted a salary increase after one season before he would sign an extension, and the unofficial line is that he pissed off one or several members of the squad by behaving like a *****. Both scenarios raise question marks over his character.

[YouRams]

Why did Shackell actually leave in the first place?

As far as I understand it the official line is that he wanted a salary increase after one season before he would sign an extension, and the unofficial line is that he pissed off one or several members of the squad by behaving like a *****. Both scenarios raise question marks over his character.

​Knocking off someone's wife was one rumour

[neil62uk]

Why did Shackell actually leave in the first place?

As far as I understand it the official line is that he wanted a salary increase after one season before he would sign an extension, and the unofficial line is that he pissed off one or several members of the squad by behaving like a *****. Both scenarios raise question marks over his character.

​allegedly - ask Steve Davis at Sheff Utd