Tombo Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If we want to settle the debate around whether or not we need someone 'experienced' or not should McClaren leave, I have just received word from @TrueLou asking me to post this, cos she can't be arsed. Her research on the topic:Watford- Jokanovic8 years manager- 46 years old- 0 yrs Champ expBournemouth - Howe7 years manager- 37 years old- 5 yrs Champ expMiddlesbrough - Karanka1 year manager- 41 years old- 0 yr Champ expNorwich - Neil2 years manager- 33 years old- 0 yr Champ expIpswich - McCarthy23 years manager- 56 years old- shitloads of Champ exp (direct quote, she got lazy here I think?)Brentford - Warburton2 years manage- 52 years old- 2 yr Champ expWolves - Jackett19 years manager- 53 years old- 2 yr Champ expBlackburn - Bowyer2 years manager- 43 years old- 2 yr Champ expCharlton - Luzon14 years manager- 39 years old- 0 yr Champ expBirmingham - Rowett3 years manager- 41 years old- 0 yr Champ expForest - Freedman4 years manager- 40 years old- 4 years Champ expCardiff - Slade21 years manager - 54 years old - 0 yr Champ expWednesday - Gray12 years manager - 55 years old - 0 yr Champ expLeeds - Redfearn2 years manager - 49 years old - 0 yr Champ expHudderfield - Powell4 years manager - 45 years old - 2 yrs Champ expFulham - Symons6 months manager - 44 years old - 0 yr Champ expBolton - Lennon5 years manager - 43 years old - 0 yr Champ expReading - Clarke3 yrs manager - 51 years old - 0 yr Champ expBrighton - Hughton6 yrs manager - 56 years old - 1 yr Champ expRotherham - Evans21 years manager - 52 years old - 0 yr Champ expMillwall - no permanent managerWigan - Caldwell0 yrs manager - 33 years old - 0 yrs Champ expBlackpool - Clark7 yrs manager - 42 years old - 2 yrs Champ exp So experienced managers sorta don't get a look in here. Young and talented coaches are the ones doing well. Top 4 especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'm querying Truelou's data. Warburton has only managed this season. Jackett has managed at Swansea (?) and definitely Millwall in the Championship. Hughton managed Newcastle, Birmingham and maybe Norwich, Powell was at Charlton and Howe has about 2 or 3 years combined.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'm querying Truelou's data. Warburton has only managed this season. Jackett has managed at Swansea (?) and definitely Millwall in the Championship. Hughton managed Newcastle, Birmingham and maybe Norwich, Powell was at Charlton and Howe has about 2 or 3 years combined.lolI didn't bother checking it, that's the data I was given. The point remains roughly the same regardless.To be fair, it depends how you count it. Warburton has 2 years when he took the majority of the season last year and has been in charge for a full year this year. A year and a half maybe but I'd be inclined to say 2 years is fair.Double edit: I now realise what you mean, 2 years Champ experience. I should have checked before I posted it really. I can't imagine her research was extensive. Probably just a quick look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If the point is that you don't have to have experience to be coaching a team at the top then fair enough, but those stats also suggest that you don't have to have a lot of experience to be at the bottom either. Or in the middle come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If the point is that you don't have to have experience to be coaching a team at the top then fair enough, but those stats also suggest that you don't have to have a lot of experience to be at the bottom either. Or in the middle come to that.Her point is that you don't have to have experience in this league full stop. It's something of a cliche to get a manager that is "proven at this level" (as satirised in my member title) but this shows that it really makes no difference. What makes the difference is having a guy that is a good fit for your club. Hughton is the oldest manager in the league, and an experienced coach. But he isn't the right fit for Brighton's players at all. Russell Slade at Cardiff also. But in the same breath, the experience of Jackett works well because he's a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueLou Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I'm querying Truelou's data. Warburton has only managed this season. Jackett has managed at Swansea (?) and definitely Millwall in the Championship. Hughton managed Newcastle, Birmingham and maybe Norwich, Powell was at Charlton and Howe has about 2 or 3 years combined. lol You've made me look now Mostyn It was a quick anaysis, I was interested to know just how many 'established' managers we've had in the Championship this year, I was a bit astounded by the number of managers who had no experience of this league at all, I thought 3 or 4 at the most off the top of my head. I was looking at Championship experience only, Hughton has managed higher but not exactly had much success up there, same with Jackett, I woulnd't call either 'established' PL managers. I just wanted to know, where an appointment is made of a manager with little or no experience in this league, is that an oddity or becoming the norm? I think it's becoming more accepted to put a less established manager in at this level. And I like this trend, I hope it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Clement_(football_coach)Hope this helps Dimmu, I remember his dad, he wasn't a bad player but I'm afraid I had to wiki Paul, didn't know much about him apart from he's Ancelotti's assistant. It let to this, which was good to read.http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/mar/08/paul-clement-englishman-psg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 You've made me look now Mostyn It was a quick anaysis, I was interested to know just how many 'established' managers we've had in the Championship this year, I was a bit astounded by the number of managers who had no experience of this league at all, I thought 3 or 4 at the most off the top of my head. I was looking at Championship experience only, Hughton has managed higher but not exactly had much success up there, same with Jackett, I woulnd't call either 'established' PL managers. I just wanted to know, where an appointment is made of a manager with little or no experience in this league, is that an oddity or becoming the norm? I think it's becoming more accepted to put a less established manager in at this level. And I like this trend, I hope it continues. you're right, it is interesting that so many are at this level for the first time at the same time. Logic would say that all managers at some point have to become the new guy at whatever level, but it does show that nowadays there are no hard and fast rules. The old guard / establishment, if it existed once, is no longer. There were times when the same old managers would get job after job. But by the same token, there appear to be managers losing their jobs and dropping out of the game completely. It'd be an interesting read to see how many of the managers that have been in this league over the last 5 seasons are actually now unemployed. I'd guess it'd be an astonishing number. As for recruiting, I'm not sure what it highlights. Is it chairmen/CEOs trying something different to get success? Is it financially driven? (ie recruiting/promoting from within cheaper?) Or, is football moving on? I've always thought lots of football decisions are based on myth. One team has success with something, then everyone else tries to follow. Years ago it was Makelele and the DM role, in management it's copying the Swansea method etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueLou Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 you're right, it is interesting that so many are at this level for the first time at the same time. Logic would say that all managers at some point have to become the new guy at whatever level, but it does show that nowadays there are no hard and fast rules. The old guard / establishment, if it existed once, is no longer. There were times when the same old managers would get job after job. But by the same token, there appear to be managers losing their jobs and dropping out of the game completely. It'd be an interesting read to see how many of the managers that have been in this league over the last 5 seasons are actually now unemployed. I'd guess it'd be an astonishing number.As for recruiting, I'm not sure what it highlights. Is it chairmen/CEOs trying something different to get success? Is it financially driven? (ie recruiting/promoting from within cheaper?) Or, is football moving on?I've always thought lots of football decisions are based on myth. One team has success with something, then everyone else tries to follow. Years ago it was Makelele and the DM role, in management it's copying the Swansea method etc.Agreed on the desicions based on myth Mostyn. Some clubs try to emulate without thinking through whether that idea/model will fit within their own club. It appears to be deemed that if it works there it'll work here. Silliness. I would like to think that we're moving on, the managerial merry go round gets ridiculous at times. It takes a few brave souls to break the mould before attitudes begin to shift. I do have a lot of respect for clubs that have tried out an unproven manager and gained success with that, as it must be a huge decision to take the plunge. Out of interest how would you feel if Derby did that? I hope I would exercise the benefit of the doubt, I'd like to think I would, bit scary though.And you've given me a new project, I love a project. So I did a bit of research on the Championship 10/11. A kind of 'where are they now' to see how many are on the dole. Shocked me to see only two out of the lot are managing at PL level this season, the rest lower, out of work or still in Champ, Boothroyd and Keane the exception to this. Proves how crazily difficult and fickle football management is:10/11Warnock - QPR - unemployedLambert - Norwich - unemployedRodgers - Swansea - now LiverpoolJones - Cardiff - unemployedMcDermott - Leeds - unemployedDavies - Forest - unemployedGrayson - Leeds - now PNELaws/Howe - Laws unemployed/Howe now BournemouthJackett - Millwall - now WolvesEriksson - Leicester - ShanghaiPearson - Hull - LeicesterMowbray - Boro - CoventryKeane - Ipswich - IrelandMcKay - Watford - unemployedMillen - Bristol City - assistant at PalaceCotterill/Appleton - Portsmouth - Cotterill now Bristol City/Appleton now Oxford CityRobins - Barnsley - SsausagehorpeBoothroyd - Coventry - England U20sClough - Derby - Sheff UtdBurley/Freedman - Palace - Burley now Apollon Limassol/Freedman at the dogsSaunders - Doncaster - CrawleyFerguson/Brown - PNE - Ferguson unemployed/Brown now SouthendSpeed/Adams - Sheff Utd - Speed deceased/Adams unemployedBaraclough/Knill - Ssausagehorpe - Baraclough now Motherwell/Knill unemployed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammeister Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Agreed on the desicions based on myth Mostyn. Some clubs try to emulate without thinking through whether that idea/model will fit within their own club. It appears to be deemed that if it works there it'll work here. Silliness. I would like to think that we're moving on, the managerial merry go round gets ridiculous at times. It takes a few brave souls to break the mould before attitudes begin to shift. I do have a lot of respect for clubs that have tried out an unproven manager and gained success with that, as it must be a huge decision to take the plunge. Out of interest how would you feel if Derby did that? I hope I would exercise the benefit of the doubt, I'd like to think I would, bit scary though.And you've given me a new project, I love a project. So I did a bit of research on the Championship 10/11. A kind of 'where are they now' to see how many are on the dole. Shocked me to see only two out of the lot are managing at PL level this season, the rest lower, out of work or still in Champ, Boothroyd and Keane the exception to this. Proves how crazily difficult and fickle football management is:10/11Warnock - QPR - unemployedLambert - Norwich - unemployedRodgers - Swansea - now LiverpoolJones - Cardiff - unemployedMcDermott - Leeds - unemployedDavies - Forest - unemployedGrayson - Leeds - now PNELaws/Howe - Laws unemployed/Howe now BournemouthJackett - Millwall - now WolvesEriksson - Leicester - ShanghaiPearson - Hull - LeicesterMowbray - Boro - CoventryKeane - Ipswich - IrelandMcKay - Watford - unemployedMillen - Bristol City - assistant at PalaceCotterill/Appleton - Portsmouth - Cotterill now Bristol City/Appleton now Oxford CityRobins - Barnsley - SsausagehorpeBoothroyd - Coventry - England U20sClough - Derby - Sheff UtdBurley/Freedman - Palace - Burley now Apollon Limassol/Freedman at the dogsSaunders - Doncaster - CrawleyFerguson/Brown - PNE - Ferguson unemployed/Brown now SouthendSpeed/Adams - Sheff Utd - Speed deceased/Adams unemployedBaraclough/Knill - Ssausagehorpe - Baraclough now Motherwell/Knill unemployed Think you may have a typo there next to Davies- should it not read unemployABLE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Odds update: Paul Clement in pole position now - 7/4 Sean Dyche in second - 3/1Mark Warburton in third - 5/1A new name in Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink in fourth - 8/1Eddie Howe, , completes the top 5 at 16/1 Mean fk all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Is the fact that Ancellotti is likely to move from Madrid this summer the reason why Clement is being linked with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Off lou's list, Mcdermott is now Arsenal chief scout, Knill is assistant at Northampton, and Laws is Radio Nottinghams version of Craig Ramage, so still in football, just not managing.On a positive note, there has been an 200% increase in the amount of BME managers compared with before, so that's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Is the fact that Ancellotti is likely to move from Madrid this summer the reason why Clement is being linked with us?Or people guess anything. Odds mean fk all though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty1 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 So out of nowhere master tactician Mr Paul Ince is now evens @ Betvictor.As the kids on the street would say.............WTF!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 So out of nowhere master tactician Mr Paul Ince is now evens @ Betvictor. As the kids on the street would say.............WTF!!! more chance of wee jimmy cranky coming back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Ince was favourite for the job when we was in the Premier League, according to reports it was all agreed with him as manager and Roy Hodgson as number two.Paul Jewell then got the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelBlimp Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Nice to see Alan Kerb-Crawlishly still making the odds lists. Still hanging out for that plum job is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Show how much faith we should put in these odds, £20 is enough to change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walsall_Ram Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Paul Ince favourite now 5/4 - Dyche 6/1 - Stimac and JFH 16/1 (On BetVictor anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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