Sparkle

6 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I thought Shinnie stifled our play?

Our player of the year last season - that guy? 

This will be a strange game with them playing in their away kit it seems 

It’s sad that this has come about and disappointing that the ticket office is now shut for sales at that new price.

can anyone remember paying at a turnstile?

8 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

We were abysmal there last season…

Last season was abysmal 

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

I'm 99% sure I'm right on this. The only restriction is on registering new players - i.e. transferring their registration from another club (or from free agency) to ours.  It's nothing to do with the team-selection side of things.  We didn't "de-register" anyone, we got special dispensation to register a 24th and 25th player of professional standing over and above the 23 allowed by the embargo rules.  Bielik and CKR are both currently registered as our players, and are listed on the official playing squad that the EFL have for us (page 46 in here: https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c5d1297ad65c49c6bac4ae0e69c6b48e/squad-list-publication-report-2021-22---08.09.2021.pdf).  They can play as soon as they are fit.  Rooney is also clearly saying this when he talks about CKR potentially being available in the next few weeks (can't remember exactly what he said, but he clearly implies he can play before January).

We may well have trouble in January extending their contracts of Jagielka and Baldock, but that's because we are currently over the 23-player threshold under the embargo rules, and the EFL may not be willing to extend the special dispensation if Bielik and CKR are fit again.  We'll probably have to move a couple of the current players on, if we're still under an embargo.

We absolutely can play Cashin. We are choosing not to because he would then become a player of professional standing and count towards any potential embargo restrictions if we try to sign new players or extend contracts in January.

Hopefully the embargo can change its type by January then

1 minute ago, Oldben said:

History doesn't support reducing a points deduction to zero, its never happened.

Derby are not walking away from this situation with zero points deducted, the efl want to make a statement.

 

I am talking about the points deduction for going into administration 

11 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Their owners didn't reveal they were only putting enough money in to keep the club ticking over, i don't think the EFL have sought assurances that those clubs could fulfil this seasons fixtures,they must be in a healthier position than us

How do you know that? - the general public simply don’t know 

If when the appeal gets heard if I was sitting on an appeals panel I would be asking the EFL to give ten examples of how a club can win an appeal against administration from their viewpoint before the hearing took place, the answers would be very interesting. The EFL should be able to answer that question or their appeal system could easily be questioned in law as being unfair.

3 hours ago, Oldben said:

Under a scenario where derbys 12pts are reduced to 6pts on appeal.

Derby would still face a further 9 point deduction from the efl.

With the current squad and the transfer embargo plus not being allowed to offer high salaries for free transfers, how does Derby avoid the drop.

The administrators are attempting to reduce the 12pts so as to keep potential new buyers keen.

But if we end up on 15pts as summarised I think we still face the drop.

I read that the administrators believe that with clubs current debt and ground ownership situation, only staying in the championship offers the potential of new owners.

I think even if it was 15pts there's the further 3pts deduction for each potential breach of failing to pay players wages on time hanging over the club.

Then there's the January transfer window, players could be sold but due to transfer embargo, who could Derby bring in to strengthen the team.

Mens guilty of leaving the club without the talent to escape the drop, how can the club escape the drop without winning games instead of just drawing games.

I don’t see why a deduction would be reduced in this circumstance for me it’s 12pts or zero point deduction and personally I would say that for any club in the same situation it should be zero point reduction. Administration causes all kinds of problems for a football club whilst the 12 point deduction kills of the football aspect. These are not normal times with a worldwide global pandemic ? 

1 hour ago, DCFC27 said:

Surely if Wigan didn’t get theirs overturned, we have no chance. They were put in admin in the middle of the start of the pandemic and still given a 12 point deduction. Their owners did leave them very soon and without trying to keep them a float.

Maybe our argument will lie on trying to persuade the commission Mel tried everything to keep the club  afloat throughout covid but eventually failed as he could not sustain the losses. 

Interestingly, the administrators seem as confident in the EFLs procedures as Mel was. I am no fan of Mel but some of the points he raised about the EFL weren’t without merit. Still a Bamford though. 
 

Totally different scenarios in my opinion - wigan had a very new owner who didn’t fancy paying all the bills at all and covid only hit for about a few months unlike Derby where it had hit for a year and a quarter with no ticket sales on match days and less than half the amount of season tickets purchased which all needed refunding into this season. If an appeal against administration 12 point deduction isn’t appropriate in this case it never would be in any case so why have an appeal system?

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

There were confirmed bids for Buchanan and Lawrence 

Probably the payment schedule would be interesting - cash money up front or payment over 4 years for a negligent fee is not very entertaining 

I am very pleased that we are appealing this - we have suffered a £20 million loss directly and factually from ticket sales due to covid from loss of sales of tickets - we were never in danger of administration prior to that - the EFL have stopped us from spending money because they know we simply didn’t have it coming in and they were constantly looking for guarantees of who is going to pay our bills before Administration. Our losses are provable due to Covid and what other clubs do is of no relevance to our appeal.

if the administrators believe we should appeal then they clearly believe we have a case and they are the money men! 
if the the EFL believe no one should ever win an appeal against administration then why have one available ?

20 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

All valid points.

But these clubs with parachute payments have much much bigger wage bills than ours, the club's coming up would have increased their wage bill and spent money in transfers. 

Yes we could have been affected more based on our attendances being sold high and how heavily reliant on ticket sales we are. But so is everyone.

Why aren't Forest in administration because of Covid? Same length of time in this League, no parachute payments, big attendances. No sign of them going into administration. 

Isn’t an appeal about how covid affected us because the appeal is about us not other clubs 

On 10/10/2021 at 09:23, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Waste of 300k that could have been used to keep people in jobs.

No chance we win this appeal given the state of our finances. To say COVID is the sole reason we are where we are is just false.

I would suggest all the prospective new owners are saying that you simply have to appeal the 12 point deduction 

I have no problem with Ashley potentially taking over at Derby 

He pays the Bills - he doesn’t sell cheap - we currently have most of what we need as a club.

we tried the very rich local man in MM who has chosen to walk away - we nearly ended up with a fake Arab and a Spanish waiter 

we did end up with administration 

Give me a British based business man who wants to be appreciated 

I don’t care if PP is name after one of his company’s - just sponsor us.

after the last 20 years I would settle for being in a relegation scrap in the premiership 4 in 5 seasons and coming through it.

This also makes sense to Ashley - it’s a business in distress and it just needs initial money in all reality, that can build to a nice profit whilst keeping a nice profile and he has local presence in Shirebrook not to mention two new shops opening in the city soon. 
 

the Administrators should have the red carpet rolled out in his direction as we have no idea what we would get with someone else if there turns out to be anyone else!

2 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

They'll wait untill we've acumalated enough points to move up the Championship then hit us with a -9 point deduction

Without question because they don’t want us playing totally the youth players so they can say it hasn’t distorted the league 

7 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Yeah, he plays for them and we just keep taking the cash ?

Kaide Gordon and Liam Delap in our team, I wonder how we’d be doing?

Might be scoring goals 

24 minutes ago, Chris_D said:

they are to be repaid by 2024

Which we probably could have done without going into division three - minus 12 points administration means a straight forward drop of about £6 million per year when we are relegated on top of whatever the EFL are cooking up.

2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.

But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 

Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

The PFA appear to have been utterly pathetic at representing their players in this whole situation and if I was a member I would be raising Merry hell why they have been so pathetic 

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Morris actually said he wouldn't pursue QPR for compensation, so never did. It's now 7 years on from THAT season, so I don't know if an attempt to pursue it now would be allowed. 

I wouldn’t suggest we did but the threat is more reasonable then again a new owner might actually consider it worthwhile.

we used to talk about football ! 

I do think that this needs fully publishing for the whole football world to be aware of what is happening to show some Gibson types for what they are and to send a message to clubs like QPR that things may well come back to haunt you.

9 hours ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.

Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 

They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).

Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I would just like to add that sky sports have very little to actually show on TV without the EFL who should have a huge bargaining chip to sell rather than being grateful for some crumbs 

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Has Mike Ashley even said he’s interested in Derby !

It’s just a bit of chat, he been involved in football, has money and we are in distress - he fits the main things needed probably 

1 minute ago, Donnyram said:

Speculation I believe, although just googled Mike Ashley Derby County and found an article saying he’s likely to be interested in buying a Championship club……… mentions Sheff Wed so not sure how recent it is

Well we have them at an advantage then - we are in administration ???

One thing we do know - Derby county needs help - Mike Ashley has money and has made Newcastle United a stable club and could do so with Derby county as well - we do not know anything about any other potential buyers, they could be brilliant or utterly dreadful and if he ultimately threw his hat in the ring of potential buyers I wouldn’t be upset at the prospect because we are where we are.