nottingram

Ultimately though, hindsight is 20:20. If Henderson had taken one and missed I am sure questions would be asked as to why he was on the list, when he missed in the shootout v Colombia in 2018 and missed one in the warm up game pre this tournament. On the flip side, who would have had Maguire pegged to take the best pen from both teams in the shootout?
The only change I would have made, and I’m not even sure the order can be changed on the fly, would have been to give Pickford number 5 once he had saved from Jorginho. He was in a no lose situation having kept us in it anyway. Even then he was down to take 6th so it just kicks the can down the road. But I believe the best takers were those who took them, just didn’t quite fall right. Anyone can miss on the day, Jorginho is one of the best takers around and he did.
Ultimately though, I just don’t think Southgate should be defined by decisions made in a shootout. Taking second immediately puts you at a disadvantage, no problem with that as someone has to do it, but it shows how fine the margins are that it can come down to a coin toss.
We did play conservatively on the day but ultimately were a few unlucky ricochets from a set piece away from a perfectly managed final. That’s fine, tournaments can so often be defined by luck, in such a small sample of games. If we had continued to attack maybe Italy score more / sooner. We have an excellent set of players, but so did Italy, and so do most teams in international tournaments these days.

Fair comments. 

Of course they have the right to do it. I don’t think booing the knee in and of itself means they are racist but I think it is pretty clear that some who do boo, are doing so because they are racist. Priti Patel obviously does not need to condemn this but she had the chance to and instead condemned the knee as “gesture politics.”
The question then is whether not condemning it, and therefore not condemning the racist element of that, leads to a situation where the racists in our society feel empowered to abuse the England players, which is the very reason they are kneeling. Tyrone Mings clearly feels this is the case. 
Personally, I feel Priti Patel did not need to condemn the boos but perhaps could have used the opportunity to plead with those who do so to please listen to the players as to why they are doing it. She instead said it was gesture politics and “stoked” the situation, as Mings says. The players were then racially abused. Did she directly cause that? No, clearly not. Could she have taken steps to help reduce or prevent it? Yes, I think she could.
I imagine she has faced racism in her life, and that is a disgrace. In an ideal world, it would have been good for that to allow her to empathise with why England players feel taking the knee is important to them. 

Of course they have the right to do it. I don’t think booing the knee in and of itself means they are racist but I think it is pretty clear that some who do boo, are doing so because they are racist. Priti Patel obviously does not need to condemn this but she had the chance to and instead condemned the knee as “gesture politics.”
The question then is whether not condemning it, and therefore not condemning the racist element of that, leads to a situation where the racists in our society feel empowered to abuse the England players, which is the very reason they are kneeling. Tyrone Mings clearly feels this is the case. 
Personally, I feel Priti Patel did not need to condemn the boos but perhaps could have used the opportunity to plead with those who do so to please listen to the players as to why they are doing it. She instead said it was gesture politics and “stoked” the situation, as Mings says. The players were then racially abused. Did she directly cause that? No, clearly not. Could she have taken steps to help reduce or prevent it? Yes, I think she could.
I imagine she has faced racism in her life, and that is a disgrace. In an ideal world, it would have been good for that to allow her to empathise with why England players feel taking the knee is important to them. 

Tyrone Mings has made me feel proud to be English today.
Haven't felt I could say that in quite some time.
 

Another thing is that international sides generally do not play like club sides do. It’s easy to say we should give it to someone like Graham Potter but he will be working day in day out with his players and coaching them in his image. International managers do not get that luxury and so it is a completely different skill set. 
Southgate has assembled a largely very good unit from a bunch of squads who play different styles. Not many international teams are going to be playing really cohesive football unless they all come from the same club team, like the great Spain team largely did. 
As others have said I think we are a controlling midfielder away from being a really really good team. Who that is or where they are coming from I don’t know, until we have it we will struggle in games like yesterday against Italy who have a Jorginho, who is there purely to control. Rice and Phillips had good tournaments but are ball winners, not tempo setters. Even then we only conceded from a set piece where there were about 3 unlucky ricochets. Ideally we would manage the whole game better but people seem to forget there are two teams trying to win a game playing cat and mouse with each other.
Honestly utter stupidity that there are discussions about replacing a manager who has achieved more than ALL of his predecessors bar one, and was a couple of penalties away from leading us to a tournament win. 

Yes and we had to beat Croatia and Germany to get to the final and would have also had to beat Italy to win it. What’s your point?

Yes I can see that side of it too. We did have them on the ropes early on but they adjusted and reacted well. They’re a wily and experienced team and it isn’t just as easy as saying we should attack more or keep the ball better. I don’t think the plan was to cede possession as we did but Jorginho and Verratti are two quality players on the ball. Rice and Phillips, for all their undoubted strengths defensively, are not. I would have liked to have seen us attack Jorginho a bit more perhaps with Mount and Grealish playing advanced central roles, as I think he has a big weakness with people running at and off him, but this could easily have seen us picked off elsewhere.
Southgate is conservative, it’s both a strength and a weakness as it is something that saw us get to the final but it is also something that saw us struggle once we were there. But we were also unlucky last night and if we’d won, which we were very close to doing, he’d be being hailed today. To take the next step I think we need a midfielder who can dictate and control a game - I don’t know of the last English player who could do that and my knowledge of youth teams around the country isn’t strong enough to know if we have one coming through.

Ultimately though, hindsight is 20:20. If Henderson had taken one and missed I am sure questions would be asked as to why he was on the list, when he missed in the shootout v Colombia in 2018 and missed one in the warm up game pre this tournament. On the flip side, who would have had Maguire pegged to take the best pen from both teams in the shootout?
The only change I would have made, and I’m not even sure the order can be changed on the fly, would have been to give Pickford number 5 once he had saved from Jorginho. He was in a no lose situation having kept us in it anyway. Even then he was down to take 6th so it just kicks the can down the road. But I believe the best takers were those who took them, just didn’t quite fall right. Anyone can miss on the day, Jorginho is one of the best takers around and he did.
Ultimately though, I just don’t think Southgate should be defined by decisions made in a shootout. Taking second immediately puts you at a disadvantage, no problem with that as someone has to do it, but it shows how fine the margins are that it can come down to a coin toss.
We did play conservatively on the day but ultimately were a few unlucky ricochets from a set piece away from a perfectly managed final. That’s fine, tournaments can so often be defined by luck, in such a small sample of games. If we had continued to attack maybe Italy score more / sooner. We have an excellent set of players, but so did Italy, and so do most teams in international tournaments these days.

Yes and we had to beat Croatia and Germany to get to the final and would have also had to beat Italy to win it. What’s your point?

Ultimately though, hindsight is 20:20. If Henderson had taken one and missed I am sure questions would be asked as to why he was on the list, when he missed in the shootout v Colombia in 2018 and missed one in the warm up game pre this tournament. On the flip side, who would have had Maguire pegged to take the best pen from both teams in the shootout?
The only change I would have made, and I’m not even sure the order can be changed on the fly, would have been to give Pickford number 5 once he had saved from Jorginho. He was in a no lose situation having kept us in it anyway. Even then he was down to take 6th so it just kicks the can down the road. But I believe the best takers were those who took them, just didn’t quite fall right. Anyone can miss on the day, Jorginho is one of the best takers around and he did.
Ultimately though, I just don’t think Southgate should be defined by decisions made in a shootout. Taking second immediately puts you at a disadvantage, no problem with that as someone has to do it, but it shows how fine the margins are that it can come down to a coin toss.
We did play conservatively on the day but ultimately were a few unlucky ricochets from a set piece away from a perfectly managed final. That’s fine, tournaments can so often be defined by luck, in such a small sample of games. If we had continued to attack maybe Italy score more / sooner. We have an excellent set of players, but so did Italy, and so do most teams in international tournaments these days.

Yes and we had to beat Croatia and Germany to get to the final and would have also had to beat Italy to win it. What’s your point?

Ultimately though, hindsight is 20:20. If Henderson had taken one and missed I am sure questions would be asked as to why he was on the list, when he missed in the shootout v Colombia in 2018 and missed one in the warm up game pre this tournament. On the flip side, who would have had Maguire pegged to take the best pen from both teams in the shootout?
The only change I would have made, and I’m not even sure the order can be changed on the fly, would have been to give Pickford number 5 once he had saved from Jorginho. He was in a no lose situation having kept us in it anyway. Even then he was down to take 6th so it just kicks the can down the road. But I believe the best takers were those who took them, just didn’t quite fall right. Anyone can miss on the day, Jorginho is one of the best takers around and he did.
Ultimately though, I just don’t think Southgate should be defined by decisions made in a shootout. Taking second immediately puts you at a disadvantage, no problem with that as someone has to do it, but it shows how fine the margins are that it can come down to a coin toss.
We did play conservatively on the day but ultimately were a few unlucky ricochets from a set piece away from a perfectly managed final. That’s fine, tournaments can so often be defined by luck, in such a small sample of games. If we had continued to attack maybe Italy score more / sooner. We have an excellent set of players, but so did Italy, and so do most teams in international tournaments these days.

Another thing is that international sides generally do not play like club sides do. It’s easy to say we should give it to someone like Graham Potter but he will be working day in day out with his players and coaching them in his image. International managers do not get that luxury and so it is a completely different skill set. 
Southgate has assembled a largely very good unit from a bunch of squads who play different styles. Not many international teams are going to be playing really cohesive football unless they all come from the same club team, like the great Spain team largely did. 
As others have said I think we are a controlling midfielder away from being a really really good team. Who that is or where they are coming from I don’t know, until we have it we will struggle in games like yesterday against Italy who have a Jorginho, who is there purely to control. Rice and Phillips had good tournaments but are ball winners, not tempo setters. Even then we only conceded from a set piece where there were about 3 unlucky ricochets. Ideally we would manage the whole game better but people seem to forget there are two teams trying to win a game playing cat and mouse with each other.
Honestly utter stupidity that there are discussions about replacing a manager who has achieved more than ALL of his predecessors bar one, and was a couple of penalties away from leading us to a tournament win. 

Yes and we had to beat Croatia and Germany to get to the final and would have also had to beat Italy to win it. What’s your point?

Are people scoffing at this aware we have zero centre backs contracted to the football club?

Are people scoffing at this aware we have zero centre backs contracted to the football club?

Are people scoffing at this aware we have zero centre backs contracted to the football club?

Are people scoffing at this aware we have zero centre backs contracted to the football club?

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.

Unless that advantage was being one of the top 3 spenders on wages in each of the seasons being looked at we haven’t pished it anywhere.
We’ve ran an (unsustainable) wage bill that has probably ranged from top 4 to top 10 in the division and have more often than not been a top 6 team in that time period. Few unlucky defeats in play off games to teams that have spent more than us / have gamed the system to a greater extent than we have (delete as appropriate) has meant we haven’t gone up, so be it. When football comes down to one off games it can at times be luck based and that’s why we all love it. We’ve now tightened that wage bill, understandably, but I get the feeling that won’t or indeed hasn’t stopped you moaning that we will be less competitive in the league now.
Don’t think we are “victims” as such but it is curious that just winning one of those set of play offs would see our strategy highlighted as a great success story and have fans of other clubs saying “wow look how well Derby are run” like you see from some on here re. Leeds, Villa, Wolves, Bournemouth and so on.
Unfortunately by not going up due to these fine margins we have found ourselves in the cross hairs of the EFL who’s rules are so clear that they are now seeking to change or clarify the rules that supposedly found us guilty. We are not victims of other teams cheating, in my opinion, but we have been victim of the EFL going on a crusade after the football club and creating a narrative that we are the villains of football with their vindictive, unclear statements and obvious leaks to the press.
Yesterday’s news should have been celebrated across football, that no precedent was set to retrospectively relegate a team for off field matters that were signed off for three years by an organisation that didn’t understand their own rules. I get the feeling it wasn’t though, because a narrative has been created that if you push spending limits and do not get promoted, you are worse than those who push limits and do.