WestKentRam

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Yeah, I was wrong.... Not just an update. You do have to uninstall the existing app then install afresh. Bit pants.

It's not you but the club website info doesn't tally with what is actually the case ie manual uninstall/reinstall needed.

"If you have automatic updates enabled you’ll be able to access the new app immediately, otherwise head to the Apple App Store or Google Play to update or download the official Derby County app today."

5 hours ago, eddielewis said:

That happened to me as well. I just uninstall/reinstalled it and it worked. It crashed a few times trying to log in as well but got there in the end. 

Thanks, that has worked.

Not quite as seamless as the app auto updating, or going to Google Play to get the latest version. Perhaps the club website needs to add a line about the need to uninstall the previous version first.

Strange as Google Play seems to indicate I have the latest version, but it looks no different to before and not like that shown in the DCFC website blurb.

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

I'm not sure about your original post about non-payment of football creditors leading to a -15 point deduction, because I'm pretty sure that in that case the likely outcome would be having the club's Golden Share, which ensures entry to the EFL, withdrawn - I think the -15 points is for failure to pay 25% of money due to non-football creditors?

I'm only repeating what I heard on the podcast, about a further 15 point deduction would have been due if football creditors weren't paid in full. 

The question the listener sent in was... they thought for a club to exit administration that all football debt had to be settled in full, and according to the Derby Telegraph, that despite Derby leaving administration in 2022, the club still owed Arsenal for Krystian Bielik.

Maguire said, after looking at the most recent administrator's report, the payment would have been in the £8.8M settled in full by David Clowes, and if he hadn't done this then a further 15 point deduction would have occurred.

Could well be he is wrong and you are right. I'm glad I'm not an accountant.

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

This really isn't the ground breaking information that he has dressed it up as and, anyone that paid attention to our situation, knew this was the case.

To be fair to Kieran Maguire, he didn't dress it up as ground breaking information. The Monday episode of the podcast is when he responds to listeners' questions, and as there are so many there is often quite a time lag between the question and if it gets on the podcast with a reply.

I just posted what he said on here as I found it interesting, in particular that there were other buyers who would have taken another large points hit, as I wasn't aware of this.

I'm sure many fans would have been pleased with a new song as a result. 'They docked us 15 points...'.

I was interested to hear Kieran Maguire on his Price of Football podcast that came out yesterday talk about David Clowes paying off £8.8M in full to all the unsecured football creditors when he bought the club, a significant portion of which was related to the Krystian Bielik deal. If he hadn't, then Derby would have had a further penalty of minus 15 points on exiting administration.

Maguire mentions he knows of at least one other interested party to buy the club who was willing to put in a lower bid, and was also willing for Derby take the 15 point penalty as they weren't bothered about paying back these creditors.

Again, fair play to David Clowes for doing the decent but expensive thing with the football creditors. We would have been mid table last season with a 15 point deduction, but it also would surely had a longer term impact to the feel around the club that would have made our promotion this season much less likely to have occurred. 

Ian Evatt doesn't come across great in the pre match interviews. Looks like a condemned man already. Not great vibes.

Just watched the Collins section of the pod on YouTube and thought it and he were great.

Funny how just watching someone play on the pitch I had preconceived ideas of what sort of a person he is, but he came across completely differently to how I imagined. Relaxed, friendly, funny, discussed doing his coaching qualifications and pondering media work, that he'd be very good at based on the evidence of this.

Wow, what an amazing day, and season to get promoted.

I've never willed Derby not to score but hoped for that at the end as it would have been carnage, and a retrospective EFL points deduction to put us in 7th place would finish me off!

My mate I met on the forum here 9 years ago and travel from deepest Kent to the games with is getting married tomorrow, so the weekend of celebrations continue.

UTR ! 🐏

14 minutes ago, ap04 said:

Are you referring to this maybe? If so it was way behind him.

Thank you - that's the one.

It just demonstrates my perspective, or lack thereof, in many ways. I take it all back and retract my previous post as complete cobblers.

FWIW (not a lot), my abiding memory of yesterday is our players seemed too eager to score, and too often thrashed shots over rather than taking a bit more care trying to keep them low and on target in the anxiety of being in on goal. It felt like the pressure of ideally winning each game now got to them and how they played in general. It's not surprising that the emotions of where we are feeds onto them and affects their play.

Watching back the highlights I didn't see the clip of a great chance that Collins had in the second half from a low cross when he was central near the six yard box. It looked like he chose to dummy it rather than shoot himself in a very good position, but alas there was no Derby player the other side of him so it went direct to a Wycombe defender. It seemed an odd decision as why dummy the ball unless you know you have a team mate the other side of you in a better position to score, so I assume my memory is playing tricks and he had no chance of a shot...

I know we scored recently from a similar situation involving Wilson (can't for the life of me remember which game or who scored/dummied the ball!), but my latest gripe is the number of low percentage blind flicks and dummies like this in good attacking areas that don't come off, whereas from my highly educated position of never having played the game, it looks like a more measured pass to or in front of someone actually in the line of vision is the better option.

I've decided to go for the reverse psychology tactic. If I repeat the following in my head often enough then I might actually believe it...

I'd rather we didn't go up automatically, thank you very much. The season finishes far too early for my liking, so two, or possibly three (although ideally not, as Wembley is a bit of a faff to get to) more games in May will be great.

That way, if we go up automatically then I'll begrudgingly accept it as my lot as a Derby supporter. If it's to be the play-off lottery, well that's what I wanted all along so no need to mope around.

I have this dream that automatic promotion is secured with CBT playing a major role, and great looking striker but sadly forgotten man Tony Weston slotting home the decisive goal to cause Pride Park to erupt in the final game of the season.

38 minutes ago, angieram said:

It's not nit-picking, it's those fine margins for improvement. 

That's how the England cycling team suddenly started winning all those gold medals. (Although illicit substances allegedly may have played a part! 🙈😂) 

Yep, it made me think of Dave Brailsford instituting things like Team Sky (booooo) taking the cyclists own mattresses with them so they didn't have a bad night's sleep on stage races due to a dodgy hotel bed. 

I/we as fans often concentrate on the actual football, but it seemed to me after frankly spending too much time pondering this, that a lot of non-footballing factors that we can control and adapt to are involved in whether a successful outcome occurs or not. The Groundhog Day experience of some games makes me wonder if we aren't being savvy enough related to these.

20 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I still say a good football side have different ways of winning but most of the gripes seem to come when we resort to non football just get it forward and or cross it into the box....we had a collective off day on Saturday but I still think when we try and zip the ball about quicker we look a much more dangerous side and on Saturday some of the passing was woeful (and not just because of the pitch

I agree, and thought this once again during the game on Saturday that it does my head in playing overly optimistic blind balls in the air down the wings to a wide man who has three or four defenders on him. They are 'passes' with a low % probability that they will come off. It often makes me think of John Beck at Cambridge in the 90s and somehow I am watching this instead of Derby.

38 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

Overcome a “Blowy Stadium” and a dry pitch ? What are they under 8’s .

Nope, but if they are mainly used to play in particular conditions, then it helps to have been exposed to what they will face in a game to be able to adapt to what is in front of them.

I'm sure that they are used to different conditions in training, but they don't seem to be able to cope when the weather and pitch dictate that a different approach might need to be taken.

Yes, I'm nit picking here that is my forte, but in L1 were going to face such environments repeatedly and need to do better.

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Good post, and if I may say it’s the type of content I’m here for and we don’t see enough on here!

What id say is that I think over the course of a season you are somewhat expected to drop points away from home where teams fancy their chances of an upset. Also you can expect a bit of leggyness/mental exhaustion after a big win like the Bolton one, it’s a really difficult league to find consistency in and I’d say all teams have suffered from that and hence it’s so close at the top. 
 

What’s becoming more of an issue I think is the points dropped at home. There’s been atleast 6-9 points, and that’s being kind, that we dropped. A better home record and you can excuse a trip like Saturday as one of those days and move on.

Cheers, 

I agree that our home record, until recently, has not been great for a variety of possible reasons.

Of course we can't win every match, especially away from home, but I've been pondering what happened after Saturday as it isn't an isolated occurrence.

It feels like we need tactics to overcome the so called 'dark arts', as at present it we just seem to play the same way the next time the opposition play like that and the game is very much stop-start.

Another thing that came to me was someone close by on Saturday commented that rain would be welcome as the pitch was dry as a bone. I can't recall seeing sprinklers so they must have deliberately not watered the pitch to stop us playing passing football, if we felt so inclined. Perfectly legitimate, but do we prepare for such eventualities?

It was a windy day, the stadium was very blowy due to the open corners and low stands, something their players must be used to. A bit like Barnsley away when they made us play into the sun in the second half, making it very hard for our players to see the ball. They used home advantage to the fullest extent. Can we prepare for this to minimize it?

It appears we can't just expect Derby to turn up, hopefully play the better football, then win more times than not.

We have to overcome a possible dry pitch, players going down injured to waste time and break up play, not being given the advantage of quickly taken free kicks, the opposition working to rile the players then congratulating each other when you get sent off, a mascot time wasting and winding up the players, a scoreboard that stops showing how long is left in the match etc etc.

These are things that I think we have to consciously work on psychologically and tactically overcoming, as otherwise we will repeatedly come unstuck in such games.

2 hours ago, angieram said:

I also thought we'd signed Sonny Bradley to be our own league one shithouser,  but he's not very good at it, is he? 

He gets riled himself rather than being the one doing the riling.

True, but in a way I have some sympathy with Bradley.

He has shades of the soldier, in the type of films I watch too often, who has to repeatedly put himself in harms way in the service of his country and his unit. However he is pushed over the edge and goes rogue, as everyone has their limits. 

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

As you were at the game, did you notice the number of times we tried to "keep the momentum going" by taking a quick freekick only to have the referee call us back so he could have a friendly chat with a Northampton player or some other spurious reason? I think I can recall 3 occasions at least.

When that happened, it gave Northampton time to get back into shape, by which time on occasion waiting for Wildsmith to take the freekick made no difference.

Far from curtailing Northampton's antics, the referee all too often validated them, thus increasing the team's frustrations further.

I noticed exactly this. On one occasion the ref stopped our quick free kick to give their player a yellow card, on another the usual thing of the free kick not being taken in exactly the right place. All advantage to us was lost. It certainly pays to make the foul.

Looking at the last few games, the opposition has fouled more than us, with the exception of the Port Vale match that was our most comfortable win: 10 v 8 Northampton, 12 v 9 Bolton, 17-11 Reading, 12 v 9 Bristol Rovers. The game that the successful dirty opposition tactics were clearest to me on the night, Reading away back in January, was quite a remarkable 14 v 2. 

Another aspect that I cynically consider is, it would be natural for the ref (usually part time in L1) to prefer a break in play, to give an opportunity for them catch their breath and have a nice little rest.

I agree we didn't play well but I wonder whether part of this is we don't cope when the opposition deploys anti-football tactics.

You are right that breaking up momentum is key. It's another aspect we need to deal with, as if we need to practise plays as in American football, rather than rely on a building up a head of steam for a period of time as the opposition can deal with this by going down with an 'injury' and then the moment has passed.

Another thing is I wonder who actually times stoppages to calculate added time. I assumed it was the 4th official, but online sources tend to indicate it is the referee who then tells the 4th official who puts the board up with it. I haven't noticed the ref or 4th official stop-starting a watch with every break in play, so can only think it is a guestimate.

On Saturday with the subs and injuries it felt like between 82 and 90 minutes there was no actual football played. It wasn't clear how much added time was to be put on, and the scoreboard mysteriously seemed to stop showing the time of play towards the end of the match. Again, dark arts from Northampton or more conspiracy theory sour grapes from me?!

4 minutes ago, TheTinMan said:

On point 2) about desensitising the players. Literally the only positive I can find in us signing Dads Army players is they are experienced and some of them experienced at a far higher level than this, point 2 shouldn't apply. We cannot be blaming the opposition with limited resources compared to us, they'll do whatever they need to do and we need to adapt or stay in this league for the foreseeable. Only got ourselves to blame for missing a golden opportunity on Saturday to extend the gap and put the pressure on others. We were bloody awful in what should have been one of our lesser remaining games. 

I'm not blaming the opposition for whatever tactics they use to win games, it's just we don't seem to be able to counter them or learn as the same thing is happening repeatedly.

I fear if we end up stuck in this league it's going to be more Groundhog day of being beaten in such ways, and there must be a way forward to get results in these scenarios and not to fall for the same playbook each time.

6 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No. If it was in either league above, the t*** would be sacked.  We should lodge a complaint.

During the game the mascot seemed to walk away from the pitch and I heard someone ask has he been sent off. Have seen no report of this but he should have been told to calm down even before the game, as using a mascot to wind up opposition fans probably isn't the most sensible way forward, but perhaps he was just warming up to get started on the players.

It’s taken me almost two seasons of us being in League One, and ruminating over the last couple of days on what happened in the Northampton game and others we have lost, to finally twig what being in L1 means. Before this I was baffled when people spoke of different types of football being played in different leagues, thinking it shouldn’t matter what style of football you play, whatever league you’re in, as the ‘better’ team will mostly win. Just play your own game and good will conquer evil, as such, but this doesn't seem to always be the case.

In ‘The Numbers Game’ book by Anderson and Sally, a passage about Tony Pullis stuck with me, concerning his tactics as manager of Stoke. In the PL in 10/11 the ball was in play an average of 62.39 minutes. For Stoke, this figure was 58.52 minutes. For Man U, it was 66.58 minutes. So, Stoke had the ball in play for 8 fewer minutes per match than Man U.

Pullis knew Stoke only really had possession when the opposition put the ball out of play, so he maximised this time and worked on set pieces.

Long throws by one Rory Delap were an extension of this, with the time taken to retrieve the ball, gather it in his hands, dry it with a towel, then throw it long, the clock ticking down the whole time.

Of course there are new laws of the game to try to limit such time wasting, with multiball use, the ban on towels, 30 secs off the pitch if a physio used for treatment, more added time used etc.

However, what we have seen in L1 is an attempt to circumnavigate this, with players going down as if seriously injured, the ref stops play, the clock ticks away. As the laws have changed, the feigning of injury seems to be the new time wasting tactic. I recall that in the first 3 minutes of the second half on Saturday, they had players down requiring a stoppage 3 times, and this set the tone for the half.

Then the mascot fiasco at Northampton. Using a mascot to delay giving the ball to our player, then to try and wind them up, just shows what their tactics were. They weren’t to play football, but to waste time and aggravate our players, that worked a treat and culminated with the sending off on Bradley. Job done.

The mascot activity was reported by the media as being hilarious, but I do wonder if in a key game for us at home Rammie kept the ball from being retrieved by the opposition whether the referee and EFL would find it so funny. Should L1 really be such a pantomime?

These things didn’t happen spontaneously or by accident, they were a concerted effort to stop us playing football and to use anti-football to win, and they worked.

Not that I necessarily consider us to be the Man City of L1, but it feels like the cliché of when teams try to play football against MC they come unstuck, however deploying other tactics rather than playing MC at their own game can work.

So… the point of all these ramblings… how can we beat teams who know they can’t beat us playing football, but can beat us by employing the ‘dark arts’?

My suggestions are:

1) There should be a DCFC member of staff specifically tasked during a game with timing how long during a half has been lost to time wasting tactics such as players going down either requiring treatment or not, that seems to be the de facto new method of running the clock down as is employed in particular in the second half of games. This info should be relayed to PW, who, if we are chasing a game, could then put pressure on the 4th official to liaise with the referee so at least a semblance of this decent amount of time is added on before the board is put up.

2) The players need desensitising to being aggravated by opposition wind up and time wasting activities, and leave it to the management staff to deal with this as above. The more they argue with the referee, the more the clock ticks down and they aren’t playing football.

Unless we learn how to deal with such tactics by the ‘lesser’ teams in L1, I feel we are always going to struggle against them as it causes our play to become disjointed and haphazard. It feels like the marginal gains scenario often quoted in sport, and is an aspect we don’t obviously seem to be addressing.

Hopefully this isn’t news to PW and some consideration is being given how to handle these games that aren’t necessarily being won on pure footballing terms.

The thing that got me with the Bradley incident was as he was walking off having received the red card, a few of their players were high fiving each other as if to say great job getting him sent off. If felt shades of Ronaldo winking having got Rooney sent off in the 2006 World Cup, apart from of course the game yesterday was more important...

Admittedly we didn't play well but I despised the total anti-football they played, apart from their great goal(!), especially in the second half with their players going down a ludicrous amount to break up the play with stoppages.

The mascot annoyed me as well, getting involved with the players, and trying to wind up our fans right from pre kick off.

The whole game was a shambles and it had the feel of Reading away as it was freezing and very windy, and we just didn't control the ball in the conditions or against such opposition.

13 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Really?  🤷‍♂️

I've been in immense pain (Kidney stones) and was most certainly writhing around, until the good guys with the gas & air turned up!  

Try whacking your finger with a hammer, and not shaking your hand!  

Ouch! That hurt, but I managed it and stayed very still and just whimpered.

May be one for a scientific study...

I have in mind serious injuries I've witnessed watching football, mainly ACLs and the odd ankle fracture-dislocation as perhaps the most common. My mental picture is a player laying motionless with their arm across their face.

Medical causes of pain like your v painful kidney stones, gallstones, heart attacks etc tend to have their own individual patterns of pain reaction.

It may be just a pre-conceived bias I have, but there seems to be an inverse reaction law in football, in that the more the player writhes around on the floor the less serious their injury tends to be. My cynical head says they often do this to get the game stopped because opponents are in a good position or to break up play if they have been under a sustained period of pressure.

Of course impossible for the referee, as if a player indicates they are seriously injured or have had a head injury then they have to get medical attention on ASAP. Hence why the 30 second rule was brought in to try and stop players doing this less as their team will be down by one player before they can return to the field of play, albeit for a very short period.