Mountain Ram

Having read the article I’m not sure how it does help us? 
I think everyone can echo the sentiment written: It’s difficult not to conclude that we’ve seen gross EFL incompetence throughout this saga. A worthy governance institution should enforce rules in a timely manner and offer clarity. The FFP regulations are specifically supposed to ensure that members cannot get into these situations. On those grounds, the EFL has failed. While Derby supporters know that ultimate blame lies with Mel Morris, Derby South MP Margaret Beckett spoke for many in saying: “If Derby are to be liquidated, none of those involved will be forgiven.”
But the crux of the article is about not thinking that a government-led regulatory body would have necessarily done any better.
At best, something to add to the list of information @David is pulling together?
If anyone else notices something more significant, feel free to shout it out. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/20/footballs-financial-lunacy-cannot-tackled-red-tape/
 

Having read the article I’m not sure how it does help us? 
I think everyone can echo the sentiment written: It’s difficult not to conclude that we’ve seen gross EFL incompetence throughout this saga. A worthy governance institution should enforce rules in a timely manner and offer clarity. The FFP regulations are specifically supposed to ensure that members cannot get into these situations. On those grounds, the EFL has failed. While Derby supporters know that ultimate blame lies with Mel Morris, Derby South MP Margaret Beckett spoke for many in saying: “If Derby are to be liquidated, none of those involved will be forgiven.”
But the crux of the article is about not thinking that a government-led regulatory body would have necessarily done any better.
At best, something to add to the list of information @David is pulling together?
If anyone else notices something more significant, feel free to shout it out. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/20/footballs-financial-lunacy-cannot-tackled-red-tape/
 

There was a really good suggestion on the Colin Murray 5 Live piece that if Mel put the stadium company into administration and agreed to underwrite any potential losses from the Boro and Wycombe claims he’d give the Administrators a load more negotiating room (assuming they were also appointed for the stadium co) and hopefully we’d be allowed to name a preferred bidder. 
 
appreciate it has a minuscule change of happening, but should at least be lobbied for.

There was a really good suggestion on the Colin Murray 5 Live piece that if Mel put the stadium company into administration and agreed to underwrite any potential losses from the Boro and Wycombe claims he’d give the Administrators a load more negotiating room (assuming they were also appointed for the stadium co) and hopefully we’d be allowed to name a preferred bidder. 
 
appreciate it has a minuscule change of happening, but should at least be lobbied for.

Three parties have made offers, any one of which would allow the club to exit administration with a substantial payment to creditors.
These offers need clarity, that the claim by Boro and the potential claim by Wycombe do not qualify as Football Creditors.
The football creditor rule is not defined in the EFL regulations, it is part of the Articles of Association of the Football League Limited, of which all clubs are minority shareholders (the golden share).
The football creditor rule is in Article 48, which clearly defines what constitutes a football creditor, copied below from Companies House.
The rule clearly states that it is to cover payments of "debts due". How possibly, can an unproven, unquantified claim such as Boro's be consider a debt due?
If the EFL is suggesting that any claim by a football club or employee, which is unproven, should be classified as a football creditor it would create mayhem. And, bona fide football creditors with debts due, and other preferential and unsecured creditors would lose out as a result.
The EFL can't have this both ways. If they choose to say Article 48 does not qualify Boro's claim as a football creditor the EFL are suggesting they might be sued by Boro.
However, if they choose to say that Article 48 should be interpreted (which is a wild stretch) in a way that Boro should be classed as a football creditor then it is almost certain that the EFL would be sued by the Administrators and the creditors including genuine football creditors, and HMRC for their easily quantified losses. 
The EFL also risk being sued under section 994 of the companies act for acting prejudicially against the interests of a minority shareholder of the football league ie. DCFC.
We need to apply pressure on the EFL to get off the fence, see that their actions alone are preventing the Administrators from getting a deal agreed. 
Article 48 says that Boro's claim cannot be a football creditor and the EFL must state that and stop this nonesense.
"48         FOOTBALL CREDITORS
48.1      Where a Member Club defaults in making any payment due to any of the following persons, 
the Member  Club ('Defaulting  Club')  shall be subject to such penalty  as the Board may decide 
and subject also to Article 48.2:
48.1.1        The League, The FA Premier League and the Football Association;
48.1.2        any of the Pension Schemes;
48.1.3        any Member Club and any Club of The FA Premier League;
48.1.4        any holding company  of The League and any subsidiary  company  of that holding 
company;
48.1.5        any sums due to any full-time employee or former full-time employee of the Member 
Club by  way  of arrears  of remuneration  up to the date on which that contract  of employment is 
terminated. This excludes for these purposes all and any claims for redundancy,   unfair   or  
wrongful   dismissal   or  other   claims   arising   out   of  the termination  of  the  contract  
or  in  respect  of  any  period  after  the  actual  date  of termination;
48.1.6        any  sums  due  to  the  Professional  Footballers  Association  in  repayment  of  
an interest  free loan together with such reasonable  administration and legal costs as have been 
approved by the Board;
48.1.7        The Football Foundation;
48.1.8        The Football Conference Limited trading as "the National League";
48.1.9        The Northern Premier League Limited;
48.1.1O      The Isthmian League Limited;
48.1.11      The Southern League Limited;
48.1.12      Any member club of the League or organisations listed in Articles 48.1.8 to 48.1.11 
inclusive;
48.1.13      Any County Football Association affiliated to The Football Association; and
48.1.14      Any Leagues  affiliated to The Football Association  and any clubs affiliated to any 
County Football Association recognised by The Football Association.
48.2      Subject to the provisions of Articles 48.3 and 48.4, the Board shall apply any sums 
standing to the  credit  of  the  Pool  Account  which  would  otherwise  be  payable  to  a  
Defaulting  Club,  in discharging  the  creditors  in Article  48.1.  As  between  the Football  
Creditors,  the  priority  for payment shall be in accordance with the order in which those 
Football Creditors are listed in Article 48.1.
48.3      If,  having  discharged  all Football  Creditors  in  any  preceding  class  of  Football 
 Creditor  (as
· required by Article 48.2) the sum then available is not suffident to discharge in full the 
Football Creditors listed in Articles 48.1.1, 48.1.2 or 48.1.4 the Board will decide the 
allocation.
48.4      If,  having  discharged  all Football  Creditors  in  any  preceding  class  of  Football 
 Creditor  (as required by Article 48.2) the sum then available is not sufficient to discharge in 
full the Football Creditors listed in Article 48.1.3, 48.1.5, 48.1.12, 48.1.13 or 48.1.14 the sum 
will be allocated pro rata amongst the creditors of the same class.
Note - Clubs are reminded that any assignment of future entitlements from the pool account are 
subject to Article 45 and this must be brought to the attention of the other party. Furthermore 
assignments must be in legal form and registered with the office. Assignments are given priority 
according to the date and time of registration."

Talking about us now on parliament channel.
Basically EFL rules...tracy crouch review

Just time out to thank the Mods at this time. Cant imagine how difficult it must be to keep on top of the volume of posts also at a time when feelings are running high. Think we'd all be lost without this forum so thank you

As per the above post please can someone  start the petition https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check  I would do it myself but living in Oxfordshire I don't have the email addresses for 5 supporters to get a petition started

Rams Trust gets criticised for not engaging with dcfcfans forum as to what they are doing.
Rams Trust begins to engage with dcfcfans forums as to what they are doing. 
Rams Trust gets criticised for engaging with dcfcfans as to what they are doing. 
Funny old world. 
 

The more I think about this 12 point deduction for administration the more unfair I think it is; it’s not actually punishing the owner that got us in this mess in the first place, it’s punishing the club and fans, by potentially condemning a team to relegation, reducing the chance of a buyer coming in (albeit in our case, it’s sounding promising on the buyer front) and then increasing the chances of liquidation. You’d think the EFL wants to protect it’s member clubs, rather than losing them?!
Surely it would be better for the EFL to instigate some form of bond scheme, where the owners lose their bond if they send the club into administration?
A points deduction for financial fair play seems a tad more sensible, or maybe the team is just banned from getting promoted for the next couple of seasons? It still needs a mechanism to penalise clubs that do a QPR and get promoted before they are scrutinised though. But the root cause still needs to be addressed and a system put in place so teams have to operate within their means.
rant / thoughts over - as this is the EFL nowt logical will happen!!

Agree with this - without service we’re going to struggle. We’re never going to be prolific at present, but we’re definitely not helping ourselves. 
For me, it’s time to swap Morrison out - David Batty would have made more forward passes than Ravel yesterday. Would be great to see someone like Watson given a chance. Can’t see it happening though!

I would have agreed until yesterday, when we had 2 strikers on in the second half but no one to provide service to them.
Its all about balance it seems. Couple of creators, couple of finishers. Bit less ball security and trying to find the perfect chance (Ravel guilty of this) and a bit more risk taking when it comes to that killer ball/dribble.

Good thing you didn’t attach a year to that!
I have zero faith the accounts / embargo / takeover will be sorted by next January to enable us to push on again…sad state of affairs to feel like that when it’s still months away, but there’s not much, based on previous record, to inspire confidence… 

Well you are right to suggest that all the time pressure is on us, and none on the EFl. Negotiating with them is pushing on a piece of string. 

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)

Don’t really get our obsession with Mengi. 
Look at what we’ve got in our own academy - Mengi may well turn out to be a better player than say Cashin, but at least Cashin is our player. Would much rather invest the time seeing what we can do with his potential than helping Utd. 
 
An exciting young forward / wide player on loan would be a different kettle of fish (as long as they’re not a no 10, not like we’re short of people who want to play down the middle!)