Carnero reacted to Leicester Ram in Keogh Sacked
I'm not reading through 51 pages of this so I know what I'm going to say has hopefully already been said.
People who see Richard Keogh as the victim here are wrong, Derby County are the victim.
I'll preface this by saying I think all three should have been sacked. I would rather that have happened but I think Keogh is fully deserving of the sack.
Keogh's 33 years old, I've worked with/been responsible for young people in a professional capacity who have the same age gap between me and them as Keogh did to Bennett/Lawrence. He should have known better.
He got into Lawrence's car inebriated, knowing full well Lawrence was well over the limit and then didn't even put his ducking seatbelt on. The club captain. "Mr Derby County".
By doing that he's pretty much ended his career, he can't perform his job and he should consider himself lucky to be alive.
Derby are right to sack him. I just don't have any sympathy for him. I think they were generous to offer him a chance to stay on a reduced contract.
Just because he wasn't driving doesn't mean he's the victim in any way. He's dug his own grave by getting in that car let alone not putting on a seatbelt. It's not a situation where you can say 'well if Lawrence wasn't driving drunk Keogh would never have got injured!'. Keogh could have still got himself a taxi, the bloke can't drive, I'm sure he knows the number for a taxi company.
He's damaged the club in a way the other two simply haven't. He's completely eradicated himself as an asset to his employers through his own irresponsible actions.
I'd rather we'd have let Lawrence and Bennett go as well but if you see it from the clubs perspective, while their actions were equally as irresponsible they didn't go as far as to injure themselves. I don't know if they were wearing seatbelts or not but they can still do their job. The fact they were driving doesn't make them more responsible than Keogh.
It's upsetting because Keogh was easily my favourite Derby player of all time. Shame he's been such an absolute clown.
Carnero reacted to angieram in Keogh Sacked
I have felt too emotional about the whole situation to offer my view up to now.
My heart is broken for a good captain and warrior for DCFC. To be sacked from the club you have given 100% to on the pitch over seven gruelling seasons must be humiliating and make you feel dreadful.
However, my head now questions how much of Keogh's passion for Derby is real. The least favourable offer he turned down from the club, if accurate, of £3,000 per week, is more than the prime minister's salary and only slightly less than the chief police constable of Derbyshire who has responsibility for a huge budget and staff team who do a tremendously difficult job every day at work.
He was also being offered free state of the art rehabilitation facilities, could start to work on his coaching badges if he wished and presumably would also be free to supplement his income with appearances on Sky ("like you say") or other options if that is his choice. Most importantly in all this he was being offered an opportunity to retain his status as a good servant of the club and the adoration and support of the fans.
He has chosen to reject all this for what? More money. Not much of a swap in my opinion.
His action will now by actively costing the club too as they will have been taking expensive legal advice and will have to continue to do so over the appeal and possible tribunal.
People are wondering why no official statement from Derby. I wonder whether the 'statement' we are reading is actually the dismissal letter to Keogh as the wording in it, including the 14 days' appeal time, reads like a letter from HR.
I don't know if I am being overly supportive of my club, but the whole way this story has broken makes me think it has come from Keogh's side. He clearly feels very aggrieved about the way he is being treated.
I also think this will have been going back and forward for some time, that this is just the latest play from the club and that they might have been hoping for a response from Keogh that would have allowed him a successful appeal, rather than a messy, public and prolonged visit to an industrial tribunal.
All this is huge speculation on my part, for which I hold my hands up. It is coloured by my huge love for our club, rather than for any individual player, no matter how good a servant he has been to DCFC.
What I do know is that while Keogh still has my sympathy, he's lost my respect.
Carnero reacted to reverendo de duivel in Keogh Sacked
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Carnero reacted to John Doe in Keogh Sacked
I’m not a solicitor, but I have had some experience with contracts of employment – although, I’m far from being an expert in employment law.
In the vast majority of contracts, for jobs that rely on some level of physical “activity”, there will be stipulations around what would constitute dismissal based on injuring oneself. It may/may not specifically be listed as “gross misconduct” and could, for example, fall under “gross negligence leading to an inability to perform the role assigned”. This could, essentially, read as the same thing, but it is less ambiguous, as gross misconduct could cover a wide range of things outside of the ability to perform a role.
Roles this would apply to would range from builders, to highway maintenance, to where driving is an essential part of the role, etc.
Now, there would be degrees of circumstance to what would constitute gross misconduct/negligence. If you are a builder and were, for example, to break a leg playing football, whilst you would be unable to perform your role for a period of time, unless specifically listed in your contract, it would be unlikely to be judged as gross misconduct/negligence – although your contract terms may/may not see you receive a lower level of sick-pay. However, if you were to break a leg (or worse) as a result of a drink driving incident (seems relevant!), then the likelihood is that this would fall under gross misconduct/negligence and there would be grounds for dismissal under the terms of your contract.
Without having access to the full detail of the relevant investigations, I can only base my thoughts on the topic at hand, from the information that is in the public domain.
Lawrence and Bennett, we are told, were fined the maximum allowable under the terms of their contract. To me (and I may be wide of the mark!), that would suggest that they were not deemed to be guilty of gross misconduct, but simply a high level of misconduct under the rules of the club, and thus were fined and allowed to continue with their employment. The fact that they were not injured in the incident probably (but not certainly) played a role in this, given they are still able to fulfill the primary role of their contract – i.e. available to play football as and when required.
Keogh, on the other hand, is clearly unable to fulfill the primary role of his contract. The fact that this has occurred due to rank stupidity, is certainly acceptable as a means for gross misconduct. Without having any knowledge of Keogh’s contract, or club rules/statutes on what constitutes gross misconduct, it is impossible to say if his inability to play is the primary reason? I would be surprised, however, if it was not deemed to be a significant factor in any decision the club has made, alongside the fact that due to the nature of how the injuries occurred, it is highly unlikely that any insurance the club would have would cover any wages/cost.
It would, in my opinion, go some way to explaining the difference in the outcomes of the 3 players disciplinary processes.
Carnero reacted to Poynton ram in Will Rooney still join?
With recent off field events not in the script and a sluggish start to the season could Wazza decide against joining us?
He may be in breach of contract and have to cough up but he can clearly afford it.
Or will he relish the challenge even more?
Carnero reacted to SillyBilly in Keogh Sacked
Fully agree. Life is not fair and the fact is the other 2 were not injured as a result of the incident and he was. They all took a risk and he came out worse for it. The way it goes sometimes. Having heard he turned down a very generous revised offer my sympathy is non-existent. Yes, things may appear awful for him at the moment but 99% of his countrymen wouldn't consider £12,500 a week for sitting on the sidelines for 18 months as too much of a hardship. Contextual ofc but the point stands. He could have quiety took the offer, felt aggrieved by it but got on with it. The fact he hasn't indicates he expects the punters at pride park to, at least in part, also contribute to him maintaining a wage when he cannot play due to his own stupidity.
Carnero reacted to ramit in UEFA Youth League - U19s v Akranes
Thank you @angieram
i am looking very much forward to the match, it will be the first time i see Derby County in action. The u19 squad is a strong one, lots of exciting players, my favorite being Connor Dixon, who i believe is a star in the making.
ÍA are taking part in this competition for the first time and they are excited at the prospect of playing Derby County, this being their biggest game to date. Am expecting many local supporters on the day, depending a bit on the weather of course. Hope some Derby County supporters will be able to make the trip, that would be the icing on the cake for me.
Carnero reacted to Ghost of Clough in Keogh Sacked
I heard Keogh told Bennett to rush home and return with a wheelbarrow (so they could wheel Keogh away) and Lawrence to run to the nearby petrol station to pick up a few bottles of beer. When Bennett arrived back at his house he realized he didn't own a wheelbarrow, so gave Lawrence a call to see if he had one. The petrol station shop was also closed so Lawrence couldn't buy the beers either. They both returned to the crash site empty handed much to the frustration of Keogh.
Carnero reacted to Smyth_18 in Keogh Sacked
I am absolutely astounded that Keogh feels let down by Derby County.
The man was in a privileged position to Captain a professional football club. A job dreams are made of. There's a small matter of £25,000 a WEEK to add to that.
He should have been leading that night whether he's on the pitch or not. Yet somehow he got into the car with a drunk team mate, who is also mentally unstable.
He then got injured when that car crashed. Leaving him unable to play for over a year.
Somehow, this man feels he deserves to be payed the same amount as usual, as well as having thousands pumped into his rehabilitation.
A Bamford of the highest order. Good riddance.
Carnero reacted to Rammy03 in Keogh Sacked
For everyone slating the club about morals, this keogh decision was not about that. The incident was a police matter and so it has been dealt with by the police. Nothing the club can really do. The decision to sack Keogh was purely a business decision that makes perfect sense. Why should the club continue to pay a ridiculous amounts of money to a person who won't be playing for another year. Now there must be more to this than meets the eye but they offered him a contract on reduced wages and he declined. The club has been put in a difficult situation here, I don't see what they could have done differently.
Carnero reacted to cheron85 in Keogh Sacked
I'll lead this in by stating again that I've always been a Keogh fan, love the guy and the thing I'm MOST gutted about over the whole incident is that we don't have him in our side
Anyone posted this link yet?
You can dismiss an employee if:
they’re incapable of doing their job to the required standard they’re capable, but unwilling to do their job properly they’ve committed some form of misconduct I'd say that top one is pretty clear cut? Never mind whether you think he's a 'good' player the very minimum standard for a footballer is that they are available for selection