YorkshireRam

11 minutes ago, sage said:

So people who disagree are insane?

10 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I think there’s some elements he’s getting right, they’ve looked fitter this season in matches (notwithstanding the current injuries), we do score plenty (3rd highest in the league?), away form is good, home form has been better than earlier in the season, defence has been solid at times, we’ve picked up more points than at the same stage last year….

And he’s also getting bits wrong, no control in midfield (which does seem by design, for whatever reason), not using the youth, still drives me nuts with his delays in making changes to tactics or personnel in games (BUT is marginally better with it than last season I think), think there have been missteps with recruitment (alongside a couple of rough gems in Nelson, Nyambe and Wilson).

I guess I’m just accepting of the fact he’s the manager for now and happy to go along for the ride until such time as it changes. I said the other day, I’m a simple enough bloke, we win more than we lose, we score more than we concede and whilst it ain’t always pretty I’ll celebrate a late James Collins winner more than I’ll bemoan a lack of control in midfield. 

Sanest take I've read this season. Spot on 👏

27 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

This was pre-FGR at home last season. It set alarm bells off for me at the time and it's just stuck with me ever since, and I'm reminded of it whenever I watch an opposition stroll through us, or we leave a player exposed as the last line of defence.

"I understand that the way we play sometimes we're vulnerable on the counter attack, but that's the way I want to play. I want to play and watch a team that attacks, are relentless, and tries to create enough chances to score. My one criticisim is that I don't think in the final third we've been as concise as we should be"

While it's not explicitly "I'm not bothered" or "I don't care" it is, I believe (and evidence of how we play would back this up) pretty much tantamount to that.

 

I'm not sure I agree, any direct team utilising fast build play play is susceptible to counter attacks. Warne being aware of the drawbacks of the tactical system he uses isn't the same as being okay with being overrun in midfield. I think he's commenting on simply being aware that the system isn't infallible. The way to not be vulnerable to counter attacks is to sit deep- i'd much rather play the way we do than park the bus.

When Warne signed Barlaser at Rotherham he made a huge difference to their midfield as he was the technicality in a team of runners. I think we're the flip reverse right now, where we've got bags of technical ability, but not the mobile battler who offers more off the ball than he necessarily does on it. Bird and Hourihane aren't incredibly useful off the ball, a Shinnie-esque grafter would help massively in not getting overrun I suspect. 

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's quite confusing when you see people calling for us to play one-touch football and then the same people complaining about Warne asking players to take no more than two touches.......

...and implying technical footballers are limited by fewer touches. The most technical players only need a maximum of 2: 1 to control, 1 to pass. The added irony being Bird especially has been dribbling far more this season, and probably having more touches per passage of play than he ever has thanks to his more advanced role as an #8. So it's confused me a bit too- the problem with Bird and Hourihane is physicality, not the amount of touches they need.

8 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

You’ve described the midfield issues well, but the problem is that Warne is happy with the deficiencies! He doesn’t mind the whole opposition team charging through our midfield, so long as the next time we get the ball we hoof it out to the wings. His other plan is to not care much about midfield so long as we get the ball out to the wings. 🙄

Has he actually said this? I saw the ''2 touch'' quote but didn't see anything about this?

8 minutes ago, angieram said:

Dom Dietrich says he isn't injured, a Namibian journo says he is. 

Me trying to work out who to trust:

51 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

The entitlement comes from being Derby County with probably the biggest playing budget in the league but all that said to be trying to play a entertaining brand of football is a preference of mine personally- clearly the manager wasn’t to interested in the three cups we went out of so weakly at home in front of hardly anyone wanting to watch what was served up because they knew the opponents would be trying harder?

What positive does that entitlement bring?

1 minute ago, CapeTownRams said:

Not when the first choice was Clarke-Harris !

Collins has double the amount of goals JCH does this season, there's even an argument to say he doesn't improve the first XI?

13 hours ago, Sparkle said:

As fans in this league we expect to win but we also expect to be entertained with good progressive football being played 

this season and last season we have won games but I see no progression and no real football being played and no intent to play any either - so entertainment is very restricted 

This is the kind of entitlement that needs to be extinguished. We're still rebuilding a squad that was decimated by administration, where's this expectation coming from, and isn't it just setting you up for disappointment? 

26 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

It begs the question, knowing Warne's admiration of Ladapo, who surely would have been the first choice loan incoming of our management, how come Charlton got him, considering he was a second thought after Clarke-Harris had turned them down? Something does not add up with this recruiting team of ours. 

Devil's advocate: If Ladapo was a backup choice for midtable Charlton, doesn't that imply he may not be good enough to improve our first XI? Just to add to this, he was never first choice for Ipswich last season either, though did very well off the bench.

1 minute ago, Crewton said:

Ipswich played successful football, but I wouldn't call it aesthetically "good" in the way that Warne's critics think we should be playing. Nearly half of their assists came from their wingbacks (get it out wide and cross it - sound familiar?)

Agreed, I don't remember Ipswich playing pretty football at all either. I do remember them being very physical and that Lee Evans should have been sent off when they beat us 1-0 though. That physicality in the middle of the park is what we're lacking right now, and is likely the reason they looked more effective while employing similar tactics. 

14 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'm deeply saddened that you can't take my comments seriously. I've read your comments to other posters you don't make snidey personal comments to them on reply, so just ignore mine then. 

If I wanted to say things I like about Warne's time at Derby it would only be that the end of it must be getting nearer. 😄

 

You've sort of justified any perceived snideness with that facetious remark there though... You seem to come into most conversations with a negative bias towards Warne which seemingly stops you debating anything with any nuance because your remarks have zero balance. The ironic thing here was that I was trying to get you to engage in a more balanced conversation, your inability to do so confirms why people don't bother engaging with you properly. 

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

It was clear to Warne when he took the job. Indeed it was stated by Pearce(?) that Warne was happy with that squad and was adaptable.

Was he ever going to say anything else?

I can't really take your comments seriously at the minute, because I know you're going to try and spin everything back on Warne, which is quite tiring really as it makes any discussion feel pointless.

What are some things you like about Warne's time as Derby manager, just for the sake of parity?

56 minutes ago, nottingram said:

How many clubs at this level are in a position to spend fees on players under contract? 3 or 4? Including us as however you want to paint the CBT deal, we have paid a fee for him. Which I’ve no issue with by the way, I think it’ll be a good signing. But don’t think we need to pretend he’s working with two hands behind his back. 

I bet it’s even less than 3 or 4 who are in a position to resist 7 figure bids for players.

If finances are tight then recruitment has to be bob on. The summer window was terrible. 

I see your point. I've wondered (completely speculatively) whether Warne agrees with the decision not to sell Bird and Cashin, or whether he'd prefer to have the funds to strengthen the squad? Not that we'll ever know, but I have wondered that recently. 

5 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The resources available to Warne are greater than a majority of clubs in this division, even if they are limited by the standards we are used to. The idea that Warne is operating on a shoestring in L1 simply doesn't stack up.

Our wage bill is one of the highest in the league, if the club hasn't been able to assemble a balanced squad with it then that's on Warne, Pearce and Clowes. The mitigating factor for Warne there is that he's not the only person in control of transfers, so I'll concede that, but he's certainly a big part of that process and not some impoverished manager bereft of options.

Using wages in this way I think is a bit of a misnomer. When rebuilding a squad, ideally you want to cherry-pick the important players that enable your style of play- very rarely are these players out of contract, they often require transfer fees. For whatever reason, restrictions, finances etc. we haven't been able to do this headhunting that we probably needed to, hence often having to play square pegs in round holes? 

It's not about money, but specifically being able to recruit players under contract. 

2 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

I'd hoped that too considering it's the job he was doing at Reading in the league above.

..but in his interview he said his favourite thing to do is to carry the ball forward, and it's almost like Warne heard that and decided to disregard what he'd been doing at Reading in favour of having him do doggies and chase the ball down in the opposition's half as an advanced midfielder.

It's almost like he was more interested in pleasing the player by letting him do what he wants rather than what would be good for the team. Similar to how he said wanted Korey Smith getting forward more and getting on the scoresheet because of something his son said to him about being the worst player on the pitch if he doesn't score a goal.

Subsequently Fornah's looked pretty pap and seems to have gone backwards, can't be trusted even when not ill, and looks like a signing we've made for the sake of it without any real plan as to how he's going to contribute. Where and how does he get back in the team in any meaningful capacity?

To be fair, that assist Fornah made was class, but aside from that I agree. But it is a very interesting point you raise about keeping players happy. We know Warne is very big on sports psychology and raising players' individual games, so it'd be very interesting to know whether he took those comments into account.

The fact Fornah played in the deepest of the 3 at Reading does give me hope we can still use him in that role this season though, especially as that's exactly what we seem to be missing right now- a mobile CDM to break up play and start us on the attack again.

2 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Plenty of people advocated for time, which is fair enough, but Warne has had over a year at this point and the same issues keep cropping up.

How many points are we better off this season than last? Doesn't that increase alone validate the calls of patience?

I'm tempted to respond to these ''same issues'' that keep cropping up by mentioning the mitigating circumstances he's faced- very tight finances and inability to buy the players he wants. He's rebuilding a club without being able to pay transfer fees (yet). So if we're lacking a body in midfield (which seems to be the issue of the day), then couldn't it be argued he's likely to be aware of that, but simply isn't in a position to rectify it with the resources currently at his disposal?

17 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

What exactly are people classing as vitriol (where's the line?), and how many people are actually giving it out?

I'd hate to think people take anything I've said about him as vitriol / abuse because it's never intended as such.

For me there's 2 strands to this: the vitriolic insults, which is far more prevalent on twitter than on here, and then generally being overly-critical, which is as common on here as anywhere. There does seem to be some that just wait for a loss, and then twist everything to somehow be Warne's fault- without giving him any credit for the wins/good form between.

Last night we witnessed some seriously abject individual performances from the players, yet some on here are only blaming Warne. I don't believe that's because they're incapable of viewing what's happening in front of them, but because they've got stuck in a confirmation bias loop where they only register facts if it suits their stance that Warne is the problem. 

8 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Think this is right and also why we often struggle against better teams, with better stocked midfields. I personally don't like it - I'd rather be one of those teams that pack midfield and win the battle rather than avoiding it. 

Either way this is hardly a new problem and Warne's had a lot time to come up with a workable plan b. 

Me too, even in the victories against Burton and Lincoln, I was sat looking at the 'front 4' and wondering if an extra body in midfield would be more useful to us. I think if we had a double pivot of 2 Bielik-types, we wouldn't need the additional body in there, but when it's Bird and Hourihane, neither are midfield destroyers so when the opposition deploys this tactic, they get overrun very easily.

I think the game where our midfield looked its best was actually Barnsley (H). Hourihane dropped deepest in the quarterback role and actually ran the game- something he's guilty of not doing often enough. Bird furthest forward, and Smith the extra man aiding transition between the 2. 

So I think midfield 3 is the answer, and a settled one personnel-wise for the rest of the season. Hourihane is always going to drift, and Bird is being instructed to push, we need someone to sit centrally and tie it all together- I hoped that'd be Fornah but we'll see...

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Why did you agree? Why did we need more 'wide' players? Why did our only striker on the pitch (TJJ) end up playing out wide too a lot of the time? Why did we bypass midfield in 'two passes'?

1. I thought they'd offer something different
2. To shift NML into the middle
3. '' ''
4. Because we favour 4 attackers and hitting quickly on the break. That's been exposed a tad over the last few games, and opposition have learned to pack out the midfield and catch us in possession. Warne needs to think up a solution to this. He's proved a certain level of adaptability in the past, so lets see what happens v Cheltenham 

15 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

 Surely a pointless comment - he has more experience than any of us so why bother reading this forum?    There is a difference between being able to  manage a professional football club and being able to recognise when someone isn't making a great job of it.   

Not sure I understand your point. I'm calling out the personal insults, not discussion in general? Also, I probably wouldn't trust anyone on this forum to judge if Warne's doing a good job overall- we, as fans, only see a fractional percentage of what a manager does, nowhere near enough to form a proper judgement. Except maybe @Owen87ITK as he's more privy to behind the scenes stuff. 

11 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said:

You’ve got it twisted. You’re the fan group that interferes with animals, my mutton molesting friend 

6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I probably didn't pick my words very well tbf, but I didn't necessarily mean abuse at home personally, but being attacked for results. 

What you've said is fine haha, I was being deliberately flippant because I think a fair few people massively overreact about Warne when we lose a game. 

I'm just sick of reading the 'PE Teacher' comments and similar, from people literally not even qualified to lace up his boots. I acknowledge he knows far more about football than I ever will, this self awareness seems to be severely lacking in some.

I don't need to read the post- no.

(But having read the thread, also no. Criticism yes, personal digs, no.)