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May Contain Nuts

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  1. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from angieram in EFL Verdict   
    No, that's your continued insistence on interpreting the sentence "at best confusing at worst seriously misleading"  and re-stating it ipso facto as "Derby were found to have mislead the EFL",
    You're stating the 'at worst' scenario as the absolute truth and disregarding the 'best' scenario (whilst still not good) or anything and everything in between.
    I'm not even saying that your interpretation is incorrect, but even so, regardless of the panel's personal feelings or what "the evidence indicates" (so... indicates, in your opinion, doesn't confirm), we haven't actually been found guilty of misleading anyone - we've been found guilty of using, on closer inspection, a non-compliant amortisation method.
    ...in the opinion of an 'expert witness', although duck knows how or whether his ruling that our method is non-compliant is actually any more accurate that the original panel's ruling, it seems that him simply having an opinion makes him automatically correct because we didn't have our own expert witness to contest it.
    Anything else is by the by, conjecture, not fact.
     
  2. Clap
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from GB SPORTS in EFL Verdict   
    No, that's your continued insistence on interpreting the sentence "at best confusing at worst seriously misleading"  and re-stating it ipso facto as "Derby were found to have mislead the EFL",
    You're stating the 'at worst' scenario as the absolute truth and disregarding the 'best' scenario (whilst still not good) or anything and everything in between.
    I'm not even saying that your interpretation is incorrect, but even so, regardless of the panel's personal feelings or what "the evidence indicates" (so... indicates, in your opinion, doesn't confirm), we haven't actually been found guilty of misleading anyone - we've been found guilty of using, on closer inspection, a non-compliant amortisation method.
    ...in the opinion of an 'expert witness', although duck knows how or whether his ruling that our method is non-compliant is actually any more accurate that the original panel's ruling, it seems that him simply having an opinion makes him automatically correct because we didn't have our own expert witness to contest it.
    Anything else is by the by, conjecture, not fact.
     
  3. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Carnero in EFL Verdict   
    No, that's your continued insistence on interpreting the sentence "at best confusing at worst seriously misleading"  and re-stating it ipso facto as "Derby were found to have mislead the EFL",
    You're stating the 'at worst' scenario as the absolute truth and disregarding the 'best' scenario (whilst still not good) or anything and everything in between.
    I'm not even saying that your interpretation is incorrect, but even so, regardless of the panel's personal feelings or what "the evidence indicates" (so... indicates, in your opinion, doesn't confirm), we haven't actually been found guilty of misleading anyone - we've been found guilty of using, on closer inspection, a non-compliant amortisation method.
    ...in the opinion of an 'expert witness', although duck knows how or whether his ruling that our method is non-compliant is actually any more accurate that the original panel's ruling, it seems that him simply having an opinion makes him automatically correct because we didn't have our own expert witness to contest it.
    Anything else is by the by, conjecture, not fact.
     
  4. Sad
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from jimtastic56 in Starting line up for the first game of the season.   
    Would Davies even be fit for the first game?
  5. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to angieram in EFL Verdict   
    They haven't even changed the rules, Roy. They have just found a second set of experts who agree with their interpretation of the rules as they didn't like the fact that the first set of experts didn't agree with them.
    To be fair to the EFL, I think they explained their objections rather better the second time around. However, that does not excuse them from the fact that the regulations as they stand do not specifically state the method of amortisation that a club should use. This means there is no definitive right or wrong, just "qualified" opinion. 
    Add to that the fact they didn't spot this for themselves for three whole years, and only seem to think it has been worth spending time and money on after they lost the main aspects of the original case ("well we can't get them for that so we'll try and push this!") then I think there is good reason for Derby County FC, our lawyers,  auditors, the IDC and most supporters to feel aggreived. 
    I say most supporters because I am well aware that there are one or two who persistently want to believe the EFL version rather than the club's,  although why any right minded supporter would want to do this when there is no actual regulation to back this up is totally beyond me! 
  6. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from LeedsCityRam in Wycombe threaten to sue and send us into admin. if we stay up!   
    Not even one rule, because there were no set rules.
  7. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to JfR in EFL Verdict   
    You're correct. I was looking at the original DC decision and not the LAP decision, so that's my bad. 
  8. Cheers
    May Contain Nuts reacted to kevinhectoring in EFL appeal   
    Coconut  
    others have pointed these things out or agreed with my comments but I accept I am more outspoken than most. We should all have strong feelings about it because our club’s conduct has been lamentable and foolish. Heads should roll (but they won’t) 
     
    I’ve set out a few extracts below from the judgement.  I attached these to an earlier post. Against these, the club statement is a disgraceful, disingenuous whitewash. 
     
    Before you read the extracts below:
     appeals tribunals of this sort do not like to comment on behaviour,  they just apply the rules. That’s their job. The last thing they want to do is accuse parties of dishonesty, though sometimes they have to. And when they do they typically use the precious understatement which lawyers go in for. Against this, the comments below are really damning.  The final one, 28 (which has gone viral on Twitter) is a shocker because the tribunal is basically saying: you’re liars. It’s no good our fans pretending it says something else. And it’s deeply worrying the club will not take its medicine. I’ve been a pretty staunch supporter of MM for many years but on this he needs to be called out 
    .......................................................
    24 These explanations by the Club were at best confusing and at worst seriously misleading. As appears below, they misstated the principles relating to ‘residual values’ (which were always nil at the end of the period of the player contract) (see DC decision [52][58][223b] and [228a]) and wrongly stated that they assumed an ‘active market’, which they did not do.
    26 ...the note of the meeting records that the policy was said by the Club to be “in line with that disclosed in the Club’s accounts” (which was quite wrong) and records the explanation that “the Club used residual values when assessing each Player’s amortisation charge” (which was also quite wrong). Given the confusion, which was at least largely the fault of the Club, the criticism of EFL by DC seems remarkably harsh,
    28. The DC made disclosure orders in relation to documents in the Club’s control relevant to the accounting treatment. However, the Club did not produce a single document evidencing or relating to the accounting treatment adopted and confirmed that none existed.    
  9. Clap
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Spanish in Starting line up for the first game of the season.   
    Would Davies even be fit for the first game?
  10. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Indy in Wycombe threaten to sue and send us into admin. if we stay up!   
    Not even one rule, because there were no set rules.
  11. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from r_wilcockson in Wycombe threaten to sue and send us into admin. if we stay up!   
    Not even one rule, because there were no set rules.
  12. Haha
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from MickD in Rooney to Consider Quitting   
    Don't look directly at the sun
  13. Like
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Rev in Wycombe threaten to sue and send us into admin. if we stay up!   
    Not even one rule, because there were no set rules.
  14. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to mwram1973 in Rooney to Consider Quitting   
    My Ignore list is growing by the minute. ?
    The lack of respect to certain players, staff & the manager is embarrassing imo.
    Rooney took the team over when we were rock bottom we then went on to achieve a good run, playing well and he pulled us up the table.
    Then we got bad injuries to key players, this would dent any team, especially a team that's thread bare anyway. We couldn't bring in anyone till late on in the jan window due to embargos.
    Of those loans, most got injured and were of no use. 
    Funny how some of those who are calling for his head were the ones defending Mac when we failed to get promoted with the excuse of losing our main players that season due to injury!!, you can't have it both ways. Mac didn't take on a team that was rock bottom of the league with a thread bare squad.
    Do i think Rooney has done well?, No, but I take into account the hand he's been dealt. No funds, rock bottom team, embargos & injuries to his key players.
    Anyone who thinks we deserve to be pushing for top six with this squad needs to give their heads a wobble. Lampard only just made the top 6 with players like Mount, Wilson & Tomori. Without those players and the 23 goals mount & wilson contributed we would have not even made the top 6.
    Rooney deserves at least 7-10 games this season, with funding, his own players and a pre season to work on the way he want's to play.
    If after those games were struggling and he's had all of those things above, then I think it'll not be unreasonable to look elsewhere.
     
  15. Clap
    May Contain Nuts reacted to Indy in EFL Verdict   
    But the problem is that we are competing with clubs with ludicrous parachute payments giving them an unfair advantage. Clubs have no choice but to gamble in some way in order to compete.
  16. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to RoyMac5 in EFL Verdict   
    Too late now innit.
    If we'd gone up - and we were close - then we'd have said yes. The rules didn't say we couldn't so we did. The poo from the EFL over it after they signed three years of it off is intensely infuriating to say the least!
  17. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to Day in Changing the narrative…   
    I wouldn’t take the punishment out of principle, but then I can understand why the club would just to settle it and be allowed to move on.
    Whilst you have the likes of Gibson and Wycombe threatening to take legal action, the EFL will continue to appeal to show they have done everything in their power. 
    My concern now is there is genuine tension between the club and the EFL, this might calm once Mel has completed the sale of the club, just fear that we will be scrutinised for any minor infraction now and on their radar.
    With the club statements made, we have embarrassed them, shown the EFL up as the incompetent organisation it is, and that will have ruffled some big feathers.
    Some would argue, we should have kept quiet, rolled over, but let’s not forget how this tension really all started, way back when Mel was the one actively fighting for better TV deals to benefit the entire Football League gaining support along the way.
    I agree with @Dan_Ram, as fans of this club we should be doing our bit to change the narrative to the real issue here which should be a huge story.
    Unfortunately though, the vocal fans we do have are using their voices to continue with their anger towards the club from top to bottom.
    We have no chance of this happening and I find that kinda sad in all honesty, doesn’t feel like we have any togetherness at all right now. Some will argue that’s Mel’s fault for the way he’s run the club, but that’s missing the point here which Dan has made in this thread.
    When you see other clubs like Leeds for example, blatantly cheating with spying on training sessions they were out in force over Derby forums and social media defending their club.
    Us? We even had fans saying so what, they spied on our training sessions preparing to play them and that’s the difference.
    Keogh, rather than look at what he did to this club, we have fans out there going through employment laws section 2b on page 456 that says we did wrong. 
    Forget the fact that the club captain refused a taxi home and stayed out with young lads, one of which had been drinking to get over the loss of his mum, get in a car with them. 
    No no, 2b in the employment law, page 456 ffs says we should have sacked them all, wanting us to write off one of our most valuable assets that could still perform for the club and actually needed an arm round him, some support as the young man tries to get over the loss of his mum. 
    I really dislike Leeds, REALLY dislike Leeds but I can’t help but respect the togetherness through right or wrong, that is there club and nobody shall attack it.
    I’m sure you could link this to the atmosphere between the 2 grounds as well, feels like we’re waiting to boo rather than get behind the team.
    As a disclaimer to this I do feel there are times when you cannot support, a player that has been racist for example, found guilty, but in fairness I don’t think he’s been that popular since with them.
  18. Clap
    May Contain Nuts reacted to Comrade 86 in Mental health of the most vulnerable fans ... if Derby are relegated   
    With respect, I think it's you that is missing the point, or the point @angieram is making at least. There are some on here who simply revel in melodrama and misery and relentlessly post what are effectively the same doom and gloom missives, multiple times across every day. The bulk of these folk were here long before Covid and they'll probably be here after it too, should it ever end. I concede that a smaller number might not take pleasure from pissing on everyone's chips but are simply annoyed and unsettled by the mess we're in. That's entirely reasonable to my way of thinking, but those who do so relentlessly are a different kettle of fish. 
    As such, I don't think @angieram is saying that people can't have a moan, but rather that they should be mindful of the effect a wall of misery has on others and also perhaps resist the urge to post the same sleights all over every thread. Let's be honest here, you'd have to be pretty dim to believe that anyone is in the best place they could be right now but this kind of behaviour merely serves to compound the problem.
    Rightly or wrongly, I'm more concerned about the regular posters who seem to have drifted away. Are they ok, and why have they stopped interacting? Is it perhaps because of the cacophony of misery on the forum right now or is it that they are the ones suffering most as a result of other influences or a more delicate mental health balance? When the black dog comes calling for me, withdrawal from day to day life and activities is typically the very first symptom I notice. It's insidious, one day you're just feeling off kilter, a couple of weeks later you can't see the point of getting out of bed, calling fiends, tidying you home and the like. Depression for instance, for most folk, does not typically engender increased daily activity and interactions, but rather fewer.
     
  19. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to Eatonram in Changing the narrative…   
    You could always vote with your feet. You do not have to support DCFC other clubs are available. As long as you close the door on your way out. 
  20. Haha
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Mick Brolly in Rooney to Consider Quitting   
    Don't look directly at the sun
  21. Haha
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from jimtastic56 in Papa John’s trophy   
    It's a bit silly entering them into this tournament when relegating us would probably see us go out of business, so unable to even compete in the competition in the first place.
  22. Haha
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from Sheikh n Bake in Papa John’s trophy   
    It's a bit silly entering them into this tournament when relegating us would probably see us go out of business, so unable to even compete in the competition in the first place.
  23. Haha
    May Contain Nuts got a reaction from jimtastic56 in Rooney to Consider Quitting   
    Don't look directly at the sun
  24. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to Rammy03 in Curtis Davies Manager - League 1 ?   
    I find it bizarre that people who don't want Wayne as manager now want Davies as manager. What's the difference? Yes I get he's an intelligent bloke who speaks well but it would be another young manager with no experience. If it went wrong, we'd all be saying the same crap as we have about Rooney.
  25. Like
    May Contain Nuts reacted to DarkFruitsRam7 in Curtis Davies Manager - League 1 ?   
    Never a big fan of the 'speaks well, good leader so must be a good manager' argument.
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