LeedsCityRam

Varsity 1 Derby 1

FRGS Collins

Good result, good performance & great to see us on the front foot from first minute. Got into them early & unsettled them, 2 early goals & never let them get back in...such a contrast to Wednesday's insipid effort. Credit to Warne for picking Thompson & having a 3 man midfield..it made a massive difference. Credit also to Sonny Bradley, I'd have happily never seen him in a Derby shirt every again but also do love a good comeback & today was exactly that. Unchanged for Cambridge please.

Had to shoot off for a gig in Manchester straight after the match & was quickly sat in a pub with a few Pompey & Bolton...thanked as many Pompey as I could find & enjoyed the Bolton reaction 🤣

Feels like we're on the cusp. Its the hope that hurts the most 😁

36 minutes ago, Rich84 said:

So, it's easy to make selective stats suit an argument, as others have pointed out in previous posts, but also, 9 games in and lost only 1, the same as Sheff Utd and Burnley who both got promoted at the end of the season, only 4 points above relegation - but had a game in hand, and the fact there were 13 other teams between them and the bottom 3 should be ignored? 

Reality is, Warne leaving Rotherham probably instigated a loss of form, and if it is OK to speculate Rosenior would have done equally as well as Warne at Derby then it's also reasonable to speculate that Warne would have had a decent season woth Rotherham if he'd not left for us.

A league table is not a selective stat & the irony of your post is you are perfectly happy to rely on those exact stats to come to an extrapolated conclusion on Warne maintaining those level of results based on nothing more than a hunch whilst ignoring his previous record at that level, which suggests that would've been highly unlikely.

I didn't mention Rosenior at any point in my initial post - this is nothing to do with him. I also didn't say anything about ignoring the position in the table, how many defeats they had or places between them & the bottom 3 - its all there to look at. I've said the sample size is too small - you've completely missed my point.

23 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Apologies if I've misunderstood your point, but surely a league table encompassing 46 games is THE most accurate measure of success. What other metric is less misleading? it frustrates me that when teams finish above us it's always because they deserved to over the course of the season, but somehow this same rationale does not apply to us. IMO, if we do secure an autos slot, it's absolutely because we deserved it and by the same token, if we don't, then we clearly won't have. 

Totally agree, if we finish 2nd this season then we will have deserved to. My posts weren't aimed at his performance in charge of Derby this season, just the 9 game stint Warne had at Rotherham at the start of the 22/23 season & how a couple of posters were using that small sample to evidence him being successful in the Championship in preference to the two full 46 game seasons where he was in charge & they were relegated.

10 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

It’s a relatively valid point but if you’re going to highlight how close they were to the relegation zone, in the interests of balance, you can’t ignore the fact that they were only one point off the play off places with a game in hand. 
 

As you say the reality is, same with LR, it was way too early in the season to form an opinion as to whether he/they were doing well or not.

 

As I replied to Foreveram, it is undeniably true they were also close to the top 6 but the point I was making was that the sample size is too small to be considered success/that Warne had definitively shown he could be successful in the Championship. As you quite rightly say, exactly the same applies to Liam Rosenior - you can't say that Derby being in 7th upon his departure meant he was successful here or indeed, likely to continue in that vein. Both were decent starts, nothing more & with particular respect to Warne, his previous 120 games at Championship level have to be the barometer by which his ability to manage at that level must be judged.

34 minutes ago, Crewton said:

You can only judge him on where he left them - 1 point outside the play-offs with a game in hand - which is fairer than counting his first relegation with Rotherham as entirely his fault.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I only really do this stuff because some of the criticisms of Warne are so obtuse, like the one I'm responding to. 

I'm not sure anyone has said his first relegation was entirely his fault. What responsibility do you apportion to Paul Jewell for 2007/08 out of interest?

I've said it was a decent start - what I object to is people using it as evidence that he was or was likely to be a success in the Championship that season as a result of that 9 game sample & using that as a counterweight to the other 120 games he managed at that level.

35 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Also 4 points from third, with a game in hand.

Also true but the point was that the league table is misleading to qualify as a success. 

12 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

Personally wouldn't have Hourihane or Waghorn in the line up if I could help it. Hourihane runs like he's pulled both his hamstrings and offers absolutely nothing. Waghorn is just poor.

Surprising people wanting CBT on the bench cos he's had one bad game. Id start him.

Also find it bizarre anyone could possibly want NML up front. 

Id go with a 433. Hopefully Bird is fit. If he is I'd go:-

                 Wildsmith

Wilson, Nelson, Cashin, Sibley,

                    Adams,

              Bird, Thompson.             

Mendez-Laing, Collins, CBT

Smith for Bird if Bird isn't fit. We need energy in midfield.

Exactly how I'd go even if its a bit harsh on Korey Smith, who played well on Wednesday. We need to be on the front foot from minute 1 & Bird and Thompson would give us the platform to win the ball further up the pitch, play through the middle as well as out wide & offer a threat centrally to stretch their defence rather than the predictable doubling up on CBT and NML to neuter us.

Also agree CBT needs to start albeit with a arm round the shoulder - he looked affected by his miss at Wycombe & came off the pitch looking pretty disconsolate. This is where Warne earns his corn as a good man-manager - build him back up & tell him to run at their full backs & shoot early and often.

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

How come they weren't in his final part season at Rotherham?

There seems to be an increasing narrative on here that Warne's last stint in the Championship was a success & somehow negates the 3 relegations he'd previously suffered at that level.

Below is the Championship table as at 17th September 2022 - 5 days before he left Rotherham for Derby. Rotherham were in 8th place & had won 3 out of 9 games - all at home. A decent start sure but reality is they were still only 4 points above the bottom 3 & very far from demonstrating they would have been able to survive that full season under Warne.

To show just how this table is misleading in predicting performance over a full season, Wigan were only one point behind Rotherham at that stage but were ultimately comfortably relegated (even if they hadn't been deducted 6 points). Same situation with Reading who sit in 3rd at this stage with 18 points but only accrued another 32 points on the pitch from the last 36 games. On the flip side, Coventry sit bottom here but ended up in the playoff final.

I would also ponder the question that if Rotherham had looked so strong at that point, why would he have considered dropping a division & not wait for an offer from a bigger fellow Championship club? That's what Steven Schumacher did this year swapping another small yo/yo club in Plymouth for a better resourced gig at Stoke.

Derby 1 East End Massive 1

FRGS Collins

55 minutes ago, S8TY said:

FWIW I thought Wycombe actually tried to play and were not as industrial as we've seen them under Ainsworth, played some neat football at times and could've won.

That miss from CBT was really quite poor, we now move on to the O's who whenever I've seen them this season have played some nice football so won't be easy, we need PP rocking on Saturday I still think 3 wins will get us over the line 

Yes, Wycombe played much better stuff than I'd expected...some of their passges of plays were quite neat & opened us up easily. Also didnt think they resorted much to dark arts, it was a fair contest throughout. Their lad up top (Kone) looked a handful, add a bit of end product & he'll be playing at a much higher level.

It would have been difficult for a neutral to work out who was the team in 2nd & who was the team in 15th. Particularly galling given the difference in rest since last game & what was on the line for us. Was very disappointed with our approach, the ball seemed to be a hot potato at times, sensed a lack of urgency (Wildsmith taking ages over restarts) & the decision making was poor. Corners for instance...I get their keeper had a howler on Sunday but did every corner taker have to try & score directly!? Washington also seemed very ponderous on the break, the only exception being his ball to CBT who could have taken a touch & should have scored.

The side looked disjointed with Washingtoj & Collins up top..the latter was anonymous throughout and think we'd have been better served putting in Thompson as an extra midfielder to dominate territory & inject some creativity. Credit to Adams & Korey Smith who played well all night & stopped us being overrun.

Onto Orient & now needing favours from others. If I see Sonny Bradley in that starting line up, Im going to go spare. Dont even think about it Warne.

20 hours ago, Charlie George said:

I go and watch Cleethorpes Town and Grimsby Borough regularly when Derby are away. Who is your nephew?

19 hours ago, Foreveram said:

Jack Richardson, he doesn’t play for them now.

I went to a few games to support him, the Clee ultras are a small but dedicated bunch 😂

His dad Mark played for Eastwood town and Derby reserves under Roy Mac and his uncle Paul played 1 game for Derby but had to retire and go part time when Derby took the insurance money because of illness.

Small world. One of my good pals is one of the Clee Ultras you describe - 350 mile round trip on a Tuesday night away at Ashington? He's there

Went with him to watch them couple of weeks back v Winterton (they won 2-0) & been to Linden Club a couple of times too - nice little ground. My pal can't stand Grimsby Borough so was obviously outraged on Easter Monday when they got clattered 3-0

Weasel parasites 1 Super Derby 2

FRGS Blackett-Taylor

Very hard to call potential to play in the Prem given we're still a 3rd tier club & the absolute chasm in class. That said, players can surprise with making the step up - Bournemouth's first promotion team & Swansea both contained players from their League One (and League Two) promotion teams. Believe Pelly Mpanzu for Luton has played for them from Conference all the way to the Prem too.

I'd be confident that Cashin & Blackett-Taylor could make the grade as regulars in a top half Championship side. I suspect Ward & Sibley would also be effective but only in certain positions - Ward as a wide midfielder/right wing back given the quality of his delivery & Sibley as a left wing back with his direct style & game changing ability. I'm struggling thereafter although Mendez-Laing would still cause problems in the division above as would Gayle.

Of the remainder, I'm sure players like Nelson, Forsyth, Korey Smith, Elder, Barkhuizen, Thompson & Wilson could do a job as bottom half Championship players but feel unlikely to develop beyond that due to age or lack of physique/technical class to offset that. Both Wildsmith & Vickers would also be competent at the level above but again nothing more. The biggest holes in potential we have are in central midfield & up front - losing Max Bird was a massive blow as he would definitely fit into a top 10 Championship side & we desperately need a similar type conductor of play. Can't quite make my mind up about Ebou Adams - obviously not our player anyway but whilst he looks a million dollars in League One, I suspect the technical demands of the top half of Championship would blunt his effectiveness. I also think we have a batch of forwards who would barely reach bottom half Championship standard (with exception of Gayle)

In short, a lot of work needed in the summer to inject some youthful potential to the squad & a bit of class in midfield/forward areas. The club also need to be strong in buying promising players from lower divisions/foreign leagues with potential to improve & resale value rather than older players with 'Championship experience' and no resale potential. My instinct is Warne would prefer the latter but the former would equip us better to develop into a top half Championship team in a couple of seasons & achieve sustainability as a club.

Just landed back in Leeds thoughts - overall, really pleased with that point & an enjoyable away day even if it absolutely hammered it down throughout. Obviously would've liked us to have held onto the lead but that was a big dog contest in front of one of the most vociferous home crowds in the country in atrocious conditions. It was vital we didn't get beat - mission accomplished & our destiny is in our own hands which with only 4 games to go, is a fantastic place to be.

Was impressed with how we handled the conditions & after a ropey first 10 mins, we definitely adapted better than Pompey - shifting the ball with purpose & seemed to relish the physical nature of the contest. It felt like a breakthrough game for Blackett-Taylor - he was electric at times & Pompey struggled to keep him under control. Obviously his run led to the first goal but he made a couple of breaks second half which nearly yielded a breakthrough, one of which needed excellent speed & control to retrieve an overhit ball from Wilson(?). Liked him rousing the away fans too & he deservedly got a rapturous ovation as he walked past the away end after being subbed. Same could said of Joe Ward too, another lad with serious potential & last night he stepped up with one great finish & one great hit that got the luck it deserved. The conditions screamed out for potshots at goal & Ward was intelligent & gifted enough to capitalise.

If I'm being ultra-critical, I thought Collins was on the field maybe 10 mins longer than he should've been - the lad had run himself into the ground but overall a pleasing pragmatic performance by management & team. Also bit confused by criticism of Mendez-Laing - he's coming off a recent injury, has had a long season & was always going to find it difficult on a pitch like that. I really like him & CBT as twin options - Pompey struggled with our counter attacking threat & I'm confident our remaining 4 opponents will do too.

Thought our away support was excellent - certainly made plenty of racket throughout & traded well with an excellent home support. Am pleased for Pompey finally going up after so many years in the bottom 2 divisions & whilst Fratton Park has its limitations, its a true football theatre with all the magic of a big game under the lights that you'd want.

A much needed 8 day break before we face the Waitrose parasites. Come on Derby 💪🐏

1 hour ago, Sam_Brown said:

Probably the best away support I’ve seen at Fratton park this season. Draw was probably a fair result and I’d have taken that if you offered it to me before the game.
 

Safe journey back gents if you’re heading back tonight. I have a four hour plus drive to Norfolk now 🤣🙊. 

Thanks pal. Thought your support was tremendous also, stayed with them even when trailing for a lot of the game. 

Agree point was fair & suits both teams. Hopefully see you in Championship next season, that atmosphere was wasted on the 3rd tier.

Pompey 2 Derby 0

Great podcast that lads - Kane Wilson is a top man, very engaging to listen to & love his positive outlook on life. He does mention it a bit but he very much comes across as a street footballer who just loves playing & loves the tricks/individual duels that a lot of his peers from the big cities (thinking particularly South London here) specialise in. If he can add consistent final 3rd quality to the rest of his game, he's going to be a frightening talent.

After the debacle last Saturday, I also feel a little better listening to him talking about how the squad have reacted since. Roll on Friday.

Derby 0 Tangerines 2

18 hours ago, Srg said:

Wildsmith

Nelson, Foz, Cash

Ward, Smith, Adams, Sibley

NML, Waghorn, CBT

 

 

It's Blackett-Taylor time

Exactly what I'd go with. My concern is Warne will opt for Kane Wilson to replace Barkhuizen rather than Blackett-Taylor. Whilst I really like Wilson, I only see him as a starter at RWB (and would put Ward ahead of him currently based on the quality of their respective delivery). Wilson just doesn't have the consistent final 3rd quality to worry defenders in the same way that a pacey, goal scoring winger like CBT would do & I hope this is what Warne bases his selection on, rather than CBT struggling to match the physical demands of the training regime. CBT's threat would I believe likely create more space for Waggy & Mendez-Laing also.

I'd echo other posters nervousness about this fixture following on from the superb result against Bolton - whilst Northampton have little to play for & seemingly some absences, I'm wary they'll see this as a free hit against the biggest side in the division in front of probably their biggest crowd of the season. Our midfield plus the two wingbacks are going to have to work hard as a unit to stop them playing their attractive passing style or its going to be a long afternoon. There is maybe a case for including Thompson in the centre from the start & replacing one of the wingers to make us more solid there but would be equally happy with two wingers to spread the play.

The opportunity to go 7 points clear of Bolton & just as importantly, move beyond the 80 point mark is tantalising. Time to ram home that advantage Derby 💪🐏

Cobblers 1 Derby 2

FRGS Mendez-Laing

Derby 1 Trotters 1

FRGS Gayle

Funny how situations can develop for the greater good. Losing Collins away at Exeter felt like a real body blow to our promotion chances at the time but picking up Dwight Gayle could well be the catalyst this side needs to secure promotion.

There's so much I like about Gayle - he is still very quick & mobile, he's always competing for balls with centre halves & as others have mentioned, seems happy to play with his back to goal and bring others into play. I didn't really expect the latter but it's enabling him to be a complete number 9. His finishing is still top drawer - 3 very different goals so far & shows his variety - one fantastic leap & header, a scruffy scramble inside the 6 yard box & last night's sublime touch & finish from a whipped in ball 25 yards away.

His mentality looks to be spot on too. He looks furious when he scores, like a man with a lot to prove & celebrates wildly when others score & when we won the penalty last night. Have also seen him berating team mates (Mendez-Laing against Port Vale I recall) which highlights his winning mentality.

Just goes to show the fallacy of quality players only being those who cost massive fees or wages. As Rooney's ragbag bunch of free transfers in 21-22 proved, there are a lot of quality pros out there who can be extremely effective as part of a unit. The way Gayle has already combined with Barkhuizen & Mendez-Laing is fantastic & bodes really well for a strong end to the season. Brilliant bit of business by the club & love that he's enjoying being here.

1 hour ago, QuestionBWFC8 said:

Think I came here the last time we played! This is a mad run in, we play each other, we both play Pompey, Pompey have a really tough run in. Imagine they bottle it and us two finish 1st and 2nd?

This should be a tight game i assume both teams scared to lose, with our 5-0 last night we have to be confident, I'm going 1-1 as a Bolton fan but ill be praying for a win.

You all confident? 

I'm certainly not confident - Bolton are a good side & our record in big, defining games is not good. By contrast your recent point away at Barnsley suggests a team that are capable of getting those crucial results at the business end. From our perspective, its imperative we don't lose but the prize of a 4 point gap if we do win is massive & would I believe set us up for a top 2 finish.  We've improved recently since we've finally put suitable players for a 3-4-3 on the park and new signings Gayle & Adams have given us an added dimension - my hope is that improvement continues with a signature performance against your boys.

I do hope you go up at the end of the season, just not at our expense. Like Bolton as a club, good support/history & you've been through the mill in recent years - got a lot of time for your manager too.

Very happy with result & pretty happy with performance. Tore into them early on & were by far the better side throughout...thought tempo was good & caused them problems both wide & through the middle. Main gripes were a) conceding from their first effort on target & b) continued inability to keep the ball/slow the tempo late on which gave them ascendancy they didnt deserve. Thought Adams was excellent & another strong display from Barkhuizen. He absolutely rinsed their left back with about 15 mins left for a chance that Waggy missed & unusually for TB, stayed on for full 90+ mins. Coming into form at just the right time.

Had to laugh at the plastic away fans for whingeing the ref was biased against them. They got exactly what they deserved for their anti-football & penalty was beyond dispute. And singing 'f*** the EFL'  after the constant soft treatment they've had from that repulsive organisation compared to us is proper spoilt brat behaviour. They are an odious little club who hopefully will disappear to League Two to keep fellow plastics MK Franchise company.

Best atmosphere for a midweek game I can remember for a long time. It does make a difference. Bring on Bolton 💪

Would be disappointed if it wasn't an unchanged side - lots of positivity about the line up so makes no sense to change it unless we're forced into it by injury. Warne is also the least likely Derby manager in recent times to change a winning team so strongly suspect we will be unchanged.

Reading are not to be taken lightly given the quality they have (and that the EFL continually wave through for them to 'buy' despite their ongoing financial incontinence) - they're also not clear of relegation yet & probably fear another points deduction before the season is out, so will be highly motivated.

It will be a tightly fought contest & I would like to see us dominate the ball throughout like we did first half on Saturday but with a better final ball. Getting them chasing the ball will tire them out & also conserve our energy after Saturday's effort - definitely don't want to see us camped in our own half looking to hit them on the break. Lots of quality options off the bench if the game is finely poised after 60/70 mins - any sign of fatigue from Saturday's exertions & we have to be proactive with getting subs on the park.

Derby 2 Blandest club in Britain 1

FRGS Gayle