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ilkleyram

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  1. Haha
    ilkleyram reacted to 86 Schmokes & a Pancake in Krystian Bielik bad knee injury   
    That's what he told you anyway¬†ūü§£
  2. Haha
    ilkleyram got a reaction from I Bought the Tee Shirt in Harry and Meghan   
    I thought he was a Villa fan, not one of us. How wrong can you be.
  3. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from King Kevin in Harry and Meghan   
    I thought he was a Villa fan, not one of us. How wrong can you be.
  4. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from RoyMac5 in Sky changes   
    I'm not sure it ever will implode, unfortunately, if by that you mean that the TV money and influence will suddenly disappear completely. If Sky were to drop out - and there are signs that they are getting close to the maximum they will pay - then there are any number of competitors home and abroad who would step in to fill in the gap. We're already seeing the signs of that happening. 
    And then it might just be a case of 'being careful what you wish for' - a TV company from, say, Asia or China, might have very different views on kick off times and accessibility than Sky do. And don't forget that the owners of our top 6 PL clubs (who are the only clubs that TV companies really want to cover) are all foreign and all heavily invested. They'll be chasing the bucks and have little to no commitment to the idea of the 'football family', we're all in this together routine. 
  5. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from rsmini in Mackay - Rooney   
    I can clearly remember Dave Mackay joining us, and the impact he had on the club and the team and the town.
    Forget any nonsense about the value of Scottish caps or the numbers thereof, Dave was a legend of the game before he came to us, not just Hearts or Spurs or Scotland. His contribution to Derby just added to his legendary status. He and Igor at different stages of our development had similar impacts on our club. My suspicion is that Rooney will become the third such player in our recent history and that's not for a single moment minimising the contributions of other individual players.
    We would not have won either of our championships without Dave Mackay's influence as a player nor our second division title - the other players he taught to play were instrumental in our second championship when he happened to be manager; the first was down to his direct influence.
    Rooney could yet have a similar impact, could be the catalyst that inspires a club and the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Whittaker et al. It's early days still - Igor's first match was a 5-1 loss - but the signs are promising. But the wider astonishment and attention attached to Rooney signing for and playing for us is very similar to that the city and football generally felt when Dave agreed to Join our club. 
    These are different times and the opportunity for things to go wrong are nowadays much greater. Dave was no angel by today's  standards. If Wayne can let his football do all the talking then there is no doubt that his influence can match that of Dave Mackay.
  6. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from nogbad van 50 in Mackay - Rooney   
    I can clearly remember Dave Mackay joining us, and the impact he had on the club and the team and the town.
    Forget any nonsense about the value of Scottish caps or the numbers thereof, Dave was a legend of the game before he came to us, not just Hearts or Spurs or Scotland. His contribution to Derby just added to his legendary status. He and Igor at different stages of our development had similar impacts on our club. My suspicion is that Rooney will become the third such player in our recent history and that's not for a single moment minimising the contributions of other individual players.
    We would not have won either of our championships without Dave Mackay's influence as a player nor our second division title - the other players he taught to play were instrumental in our second championship when he happened to be manager; the first was down to his direct influence.
    Rooney could yet have a similar impact, could be the catalyst that inspires a club and the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Whittaker et al. It's early days still - Igor's first match was a 5-1 loss - but the signs are promising. But the wider astonishment and attention attached to Rooney signing for and playing for us is very similar to that the city and football generally felt when Dave agreed to Join our club. 
    These are different times and the opportunity for things to go wrong are nowadays much greater. Dave was no angel by today's  standards. If Wayne can let his football do all the talking then there is no doubt that his influence can match that of Dave Mackay.
  7. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Finch in Mackay - Rooney   
    I can clearly remember Dave Mackay joining us, and the impact he had on the club and the team and the town.
    Forget any nonsense about the value of Scottish caps or the numbers thereof, Dave was a legend of the game before he came to us, not just Hearts or Spurs or Scotland. His contribution to Derby just added to his legendary status. He and Igor at different stages of our development had similar impacts on our club. My suspicion is that Rooney will become the third such player in our recent history and that's not for a single moment minimising the contributions of other individual players.
    We would not have won either of our championships without Dave Mackay's influence as a player nor our second division title - the other players he taught to play were instrumental in our second championship when he happened to be manager; the first was down to his direct influence.
    Rooney could yet have a similar impact, could be the catalyst that inspires a club and the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Whittaker et al. It's early days still - Igor's first match was a 5-1 loss - but the signs are promising. But the wider astonishment and attention attached to Rooney signing for and playing for us is very similar to that the city and football generally felt when Dave agreed to Join our club. 
    These are different times and the opportunity for things to go wrong are nowadays much greater. Dave was no angel by today's  standards. If Wayne can let his football do all the talking then there is no doubt that his influence can match that of Dave Mackay.
  8. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from IslandExile in Mackay - Rooney   
    I can clearly remember Dave Mackay joining us, and the impact he had on the club and the team and the town.
    Forget any nonsense about the value of Scottish caps or the numbers thereof, Dave was a legend of the game before he came to us, not just Hearts or Spurs or Scotland. His contribution to Derby just added to his legendary status. He and Igor at different stages of our development had similar impacts on our club. My suspicion is that Rooney will become the third such player in our recent history and that's not for a single moment minimising the contributions of other individual players.
    We would not have won either of our championships without Dave Mackay's influence as a player nor our second division title - the other players he taught to play were instrumental in our second championship when he happened to be manager; the first was down to his direct influence.
    Rooney could yet have a similar impact, could be the catalyst that inspires a club and the likes of Knight, Bird, Sibley, Whittaker et al. It's early days still - Igor's first match was a 5-1 loss - but the signs are promising. But the wider astonishment and attention attached to Rooney signing for and playing for us is very similar to that the city and football generally felt when Dave agreed to Join our club. 
    These are different times and the opportunity for things to go wrong are nowadays much greater. Dave was no angel by today's  standards. If Wayne can let his football do all the talking then there is no doubt that his influence can match that of Dave Mackay.
  9. Clap
    ilkleyram reacted to BaaLocks in Which is more annoying?   
    Or the adverts of all the production companies, screenwriters, directors groups and cinema technology that come up at the beginning of the film - you end up ten minutes into the darned thing before anything's even started.
  10. Haha
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Ghost of Clough in Hamer   
    Restbites - snacks eaten in bed
    OED
  11. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Nookiebear1 in Hamer   
    Restbites - snacks eaten in bed
    OED
  12. Like
    ilkleyram reacted to David in Jamie Paterson - loan cancelled   
    Of course, but player A could have zero known issues previously, enters new club and for whatever reason clashes with player B who’s popular at the club which leaves them alienated. 
    Wives can get pregnant, want to return home near friends and family. I could sit here for hours writing possible scenarios of why a signing might not work, we’re dealing with humans, people, not robots.
    I can understand those that blame the manager as ultimately they are in charge, it’s their head on the block. 
    But the recruitment team? Just lazy scapegoating when like you say you have no idea who was on the rejected list that would have possibly had us all drooling at the prospect. 
  13. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from i-Ram in If your reading this Mel.........   
    @RamNut. Thank you. I agree with much of what you write, particularly with your comment that we need to recruit a couple of signings to address holes in the squad. And to give the squad a boost. We need a bit of luck with injuries too. 
    Good governance means that there should be, unlike in Brian's day, an organisational separation in every club between the process of identifying possible signings  ( the responsibility of the recruitment team) and actually negotiating contracts. I suspect that with Sam Rush that separation might have closed somewhat, but that's a guess only.
    Either way, my point is that 'the recruitment team' have become too easy and too distracting a target for Ramage and others. Especially when there are so many other aspects to a player actually arriving at any club, most of which we, as fans, will have no idea about. For all we know 'the recruitment team' said sign Barry Bannan, only to be overruled by Sam Rush. It's too easy to say that it's all the recruitment team's fault, when it may not be.
    Say that 'our player recruitment' or 'our contract negotiation' should be better on the basis of what we have seen and I wouldn't disagree, though I would argue that not everyone has been a failure and that every player we have signed has shown, at the very least, some glimpses of good reasons to have brought them to Derby. That's very different from arguing that they have subsequently proved to be good value for money.
    Identifying where the 'gaps in the squad' are is, I think, the manager's job. Hopefully the manager has a significant role in who fills those gaps. We have suffered from a series of managerial changes (some self inflicted) that have impacted our overall strategy. Our current manager has suffered from bad luck with injuries (and events) to compound the effects of the managerial changes and, unlike Brian, can only operate within transfer windows. All of that, and much else, is outside the control of the recruitment team. Let us hope for a period of stability.
    You will know that Brian's first full season ended with us flirting with relegation. Only in his second full season did we run away with the league, and even that season took some time to take off. Similar comments were being made then as now about the competence of the manager. How well he and Sam Longson would have dealt with social media I don't know. I hope that Mel has the same confidence in Phillip as Sam had then in Brian. At which point all the external noises about the recruitment team will be silenced.
     
     
  14. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from LeedsCityRam in If your reading this Mel.........   
    @RamNut. Thank you. I agree with much of what you write, particularly with your comment that we need to recruit a couple of signings to address holes in the squad. And to give the squad a boost. We need a bit of luck with injuries too. 
    Good governance means that there should be, unlike in Brian's day, an organisational separation in every club between the process of identifying possible signings  ( the responsibility of the recruitment team) and actually negotiating contracts. I suspect that with Sam Rush that separation might have closed somewhat, but that's a guess only.
    Either way, my point is that 'the recruitment team' have become too easy and too distracting a target for Ramage and others. Especially when there are so many other aspects to a player actually arriving at any club, most of which we, as fans, will have no idea about. For all we know 'the recruitment team' said sign Barry Bannan, only to be overruled by Sam Rush. It's too easy to say that it's all the recruitment team's fault, when it may not be.
    Say that 'our player recruitment' or 'our contract negotiation' should be better on the basis of what we have seen and I wouldn't disagree, though I would argue that not everyone has been a failure and that every player we have signed has shown, at the very least, some glimpses of good reasons to have brought them to Derby. That's very different from arguing that they have subsequently proved to be good value for money.
    Identifying where the 'gaps in the squad' are is, I think, the manager's job. Hopefully the manager has a significant role in who fills those gaps. We have suffered from a series of managerial changes (some self inflicted) that have impacted our overall strategy. Our current manager has suffered from bad luck with injuries (and events) to compound the effects of the managerial changes and, unlike Brian, can only operate within transfer windows. All of that, and much else, is outside the control of the recruitment team. Let us hope for a period of stability.
    You will know that Brian's first full season ended with us flirting with relegation. Only in his second full season did we run away with the league, and even that season took some time to take off. Similar comments were being made then as now about the competence of the manager. How well he and Sam Longson would have dealt with social media I don't know. I hope that Mel has the same confidence in Phillip as Sam had then in Brian. At which point all the external noises about the recruitment team will be silenced.
     
     
  15. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Carnero in If your reading this Mel.........   
    @RamNut. Thank you. I agree with much of what you write, particularly with your comment that we need to recruit a couple of signings to address holes in the squad. And to give the squad a boost. We need a bit of luck with injuries too. 
    Good governance means that there should be, unlike in Brian's day, an organisational separation in every club between the process of identifying possible signings  ( the responsibility of the recruitment team) and actually negotiating contracts. I suspect that with Sam Rush that separation might have closed somewhat, but that's a guess only.
    Either way, my point is that 'the recruitment team' have become too easy and too distracting a target for Ramage and others. Especially when there are so many other aspects to a player actually arriving at any club, most of which we, as fans, will have no idea about. For all we know 'the recruitment team' said sign Barry Bannan, only to be overruled by Sam Rush. It's too easy to say that it's all the recruitment team's fault, when it may not be.
    Say that 'our player recruitment' or 'our contract negotiation' should be better on the basis of what we have seen and I wouldn't disagree, though I would argue that not everyone has been a failure and that every player we have signed has shown, at the very least, some glimpses of good reasons to have brought them to Derby. That's very different from arguing that they have subsequently proved to be good value for money.
    Identifying where the 'gaps in the squad' are is, I think, the manager's job. Hopefully the manager has a significant role in who fills those gaps. We have suffered from a series of managerial changes (some self inflicted) that have impacted our overall strategy. Our current manager has suffered from bad luck with injuries (and events) to compound the effects of the managerial changes and, unlike Brian, can only operate within transfer windows. All of that, and much else, is outside the control of the recruitment team. Let us hope for a period of stability.
    You will know that Brian's first full season ended with us flirting with relegation. Only in his second full season did we run away with the league, and even that season took some time to take off. Similar comments were being made then as now about the competence of the manager. How well he and Sam Longson would have dealt with social media I don't know. I hope that Mel has the same confidence in Phillip as Sam had then in Brian. At which point all the external noises about the recruitment team will be silenced.
     
     
  16. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from IslandExile in If your reading this Mel.........   
    @RamNut. Thank you. I agree with much of what you write, particularly with your comment that we need to recruit a couple of signings to address holes in the squad. And to give the squad a boost. We need a bit of luck with injuries too. 
    Good governance means that there should be, unlike in Brian's day, an organisational separation in every club between the process of identifying possible signings  ( the responsibility of the recruitment team) and actually negotiating contracts. I suspect that with Sam Rush that separation might have closed somewhat, but that's a guess only.
    Either way, my point is that 'the recruitment team' have become too easy and too distracting a target for Ramage and others. Especially when there are so many other aspects to a player actually arriving at any club, most of which we, as fans, will have no idea about. For all we know 'the recruitment team' said sign Barry Bannan, only to be overruled by Sam Rush. It's too easy to say that it's all the recruitment team's fault, when it may not be.
    Say that 'our player recruitment' or 'our contract negotiation' should be better on the basis of what we have seen and I wouldn't disagree, though I would argue that not everyone has been a failure and that every player we have signed has shown, at the very least, some glimpses of good reasons to have brought them to Derby. That's very different from arguing that they have subsequently proved to be good value for money.
    Identifying where the 'gaps in the squad' are is, I think, the manager's job. Hopefully the manager has a significant role in who fills those gaps. We have suffered from a series of managerial changes (some self inflicted) that have impacted our overall strategy. Our current manager has suffered from bad luck with injuries (and events) to compound the effects of the managerial changes and, unlike Brian, can only operate within transfer windows. All of that, and much else, is outside the control of the recruitment team. Let us hope for a period of stability.
    You will know that Brian's first full season ended with us flirting with relegation. Only in his second full season did we run away with the league, and even that season took some time to take off. Similar comments were being made then as now about the competence of the manager. How well he and Sam Longson would have dealt with social media I don't know. I hope that Mel has the same confidence in Phillip as Sam had then in Brian. At which point all the external noises about the recruitment team will be silenced.
     
     
  17. Cheers
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Ramslad1992 in If your reading this Mel.........   
    This is not aimed (only) at you Millennium but at those from Ramage upwards who make similar comments about our recruitment team. Clueless is one of the politer descriptions being thrown about.
    Let me say at the outset that I have no inside connection with our club. A fan simple if not pure. But this constant barrage of criticism aimed at a recruitment team, most of whom we don't know and mostly by people outside the game, seems to me to be unfair. They are a bunch of people unable to reply, and who will never be able to do so in any detail, for all kinds of reasons but prime amongst them confidentiality owed to clubs, players and others. We fans have no idea what they do, who they identify and the restrictions under which they operate. We have no idea whether we, or indeed anyone else, could actually do any better.
    We know about players in the vast majority of cases after the event. When they've come, or not and we get to hear gossip about it; when they've played well, or not.  The recruitment team have to operate ahead of time, ahead of transfer windows and, in Derby's case, sometimes ahead of the appointment of the manager that they're going to be playing for. And they have to work with external forces way beyond their control - including, out of a long, long list, FFP, agents, player wages, player desire to play for a particular club/manager, kids schools, wags views about living in the East Midlands or apart from their partner, Mel or Steven Pearce's or the manager's ability and willingness to spend, age, the willingness of their current club to sell.  For all we know they have identified 20 of the country's top young prospects and been turned down because of one or all of the above reasons.  What if a striker playing for Exeter City was identified and approached by the recruitment team but turned us down because his girlfriend didn't want to move to Derby.  Does that count as a failure? What if said striker wanted £20k a week but Steven Pearce said no and he went elsewhere. Is that a failure by our recruitment team?
    Our recruitment team have identified Shinnie - not bad for a free - Bielik, brought in Bogle and Marriott and others and in time gone by Keogh and others. They've also had players who haven't played so well for us but perhaps the limiting factors have been outside their control.
    I have no idea whether our recruitment is or isn't the problem and I would suggest nor does anyone outside the club. All of our current players - every single one of them - have had periods in their Rams career when they've played well (some periods shorter than others), when most of us have thought 'they're doing OK'.  Collectively they haven't been able to put a consistent spell of playing well over 90 minutes over several weeks for several managers and several years now.  Maybe that's not only the recruitment team's fault.
    Happy Christmas, and peace to all men (and women)
  18. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from RamontheMoor in If your reading this Mel.........   
    This is not aimed (only) at you Millennium but at those from Ramage upwards who make similar comments about our recruitment team. Clueless is one of the politer descriptions being thrown about.
    Let me say at the outset that I have no inside connection with our club. A fan simple if not pure. But this constant barrage of criticism aimed at a recruitment team, most of whom we don't know and mostly by people outside the game, seems to me to be unfair. They are a bunch of people unable to reply, and who will never be able to do so in any detail, for all kinds of reasons but prime amongst them confidentiality owed to clubs, players and others. We fans have no idea what they do, who they identify and the restrictions under which they operate. We have no idea whether we, or indeed anyone else, could actually do any better.
    We know about players in the vast majority of cases after the event. When they've come, or not and we get to hear gossip about it; when they've played well, or not.  The recruitment team have to operate ahead of time, ahead of transfer windows and, in Derby's case, sometimes ahead of the appointment of the manager that they're going to be playing for. And they have to work with external forces way beyond their control - including, out of a long, long list, FFP, agents, player wages, player desire to play for a particular club/manager, kids schools, wags views about living in the East Midlands or apart from their partner, Mel or Steven Pearce's or the manager's ability and willingness to spend, age, the willingness of their current club to sell.  For all we know they have identified 20 of the country's top young prospects and been turned down because of one or all of the above reasons.  What if a striker playing for Exeter City was identified and approached by the recruitment team but turned us down because his girlfriend didn't want to move to Derby.  Does that count as a failure? What if said striker wanted £20k a week but Steven Pearce said no and he went elsewhere. Is that a failure by our recruitment team?
    Our recruitment team have identified Shinnie - not bad for a free - Bielik, brought in Bogle and Marriott and others and in time gone by Keogh and others. They've also had players who haven't played so well for us but perhaps the limiting factors have been outside their control.
    I have no idea whether our recruitment is or isn't the problem and I would suggest nor does anyone outside the club. All of our current players - every single one of them - have had periods in their Rams career when they've played well (some periods shorter than others), when most of us have thought 'they're doing OK'.  Collectively they haven't been able to put a consistent spell of playing well over 90 minutes over several weeks for several managers and several years now.  Maybe that's not only the recruitment team's fault.
    Happy Christmas, and peace to all men (and women)
  19. Cheers
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Tyler Durden in If your reading this Mel.........   
    Hope you had a good Christmas Tyler and happy new year when it comes.
    I wouldn't argue that the recruitment team shouldn't be scrutinised but I would argue that we fans (and Ramage) are the last people who can properly do so because we have no knowledge about who they might identify as possible players or the practical restrictions under which they might operate. All we see are those that actually join us. That's why the constant criticism about what they do is unfair. The scrutiny they receive can only be done from within the club by those who know what they actually do and the restrictions on them. And I do hope that scrutiny is happening because those who run the club should know if mistakes are made, that people learn from them and that they are not repeated. 
    You mention three players. I suspect that the wages and length of contract of each of them were nothing to do with the recruitment team whose job it is to identify possible signings only. Negotiations would be done by someone else - probably Sam Rush in each of those cases. As a fan you can argue with hindsight that none of the players were worth signing. Fine. I disagree. All of them played well at different times and for different periods. I would like Bradley back in the current team, but that's a personal view. I agree that you can make a good case that none of them were good value for money with the benefit of hindsight. But that's not necessarily the recruitment team's fault.
    The point I was making is that we fans judge the recruitment team's success on pretty limited knowledge - is the first team doing well; do we enjoy watching the players we are paying to see. We have no idea about the practical limitations under which the recruitment team are working, no idea what their aims and objectives are other than to help the manager(s) create a successful team, no idea about the goals they are being set and no idea about who they may have identified (who might have been successful) but who turned us down and went somewhere else or got vetoed by more senior people in the club. That's why I think the criticism they are getting is unfair.
  20. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from 1967Ram in If your reading this Mel.........   
    This is not aimed (only) at you Millennium but at those from Ramage upwards who make similar comments about our recruitment team. Clueless is one of the politer descriptions being thrown about.
    Let me say at the outset that I have no inside connection with our club. A fan simple if not pure. But this constant barrage of criticism aimed at a recruitment team, most of whom we don't know and mostly by people outside the game, seems to me to be unfair. They are a bunch of people unable to reply, and who will never be able to do so in any detail, for all kinds of reasons but prime amongst them confidentiality owed to clubs, players and others. We fans have no idea what they do, who they identify and the restrictions under which they operate. We have no idea whether we, or indeed anyone else, could actually do any better.
    We know about players in the vast majority of cases after the event. When they've come, or not and we get to hear gossip about it; when they've played well, or not.  The recruitment team have to operate ahead of time, ahead of transfer windows and, in Derby's case, sometimes ahead of the appointment of the manager that they're going to be playing for. And they have to work with external forces way beyond their control - including, out of a long, long list, FFP, agents, player wages, player desire to play for a particular club/manager, kids schools, wags views about living in the East Midlands or apart from their partner, Mel or Steven Pearce's or the manager's ability and willingness to spend, age, the willingness of their current club to sell.  For all we know they have identified 20 of the country's top young prospects and been turned down because of one or all of the above reasons.  What if a striker playing for Exeter City was identified and approached by the recruitment team but turned us down because his girlfriend didn't want to move to Derby.  Does that count as a failure? What if said striker wanted £20k a week but Steven Pearce said no and he went elsewhere. Is that a failure by our recruitment team?
    Our recruitment team have identified Shinnie - not bad for a free - Bielik, brought in Bogle and Marriott and others and in time gone by Keogh and others. They've also had players who haven't played so well for us but perhaps the limiting factors have been outside their control.
    I have no idea whether our recruitment is or isn't the problem and I would suggest nor does anyone outside the club. All of our current players - every single one of them - have had periods in their Rams career when they've played well (some periods shorter than others), when most of us have thought 'they're doing OK'.  Collectively they haven't been able to put a consistent spell of playing well over 90 minutes over several weeks for several managers and several years now.  Maybe that's not only the recruitment team's fault.
    Happy Christmas, and peace to all men (and women)
  21. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from richinspain in If your reading this Mel.........   
    Hope you had a good Christmas Tyler and happy new year when it comes.
    I wouldn't argue that the recruitment team shouldn't be scrutinised but I would argue that we fans (and Ramage) are the last people who can properly do so because we have no knowledge about who they might identify as possible players or the practical restrictions under which they might operate. All we see are those that actually join us. That's why the constant criticism about what they do is unfair. The scrutiny they receive can only be done from within the club by those who know what they actually do and the restrictions on them. And I do hope that scrutiny is happening because those who run the club should know if mistakes are made, that people learn from them and that they are not repeated. 
    You mention three players. I suspect that the wages and length of contract of each of them were nothing to do with the recruitment team whose job it is to identify possible signings only. Negotiations would be done by someone else - probably Sam Rush in each of those cases. As a fan you can argue with hindsight that none of the players were worth signing. Fine. I disagree. All of them played well at different times and for different periods. I would like Bradley back in the current team, but that's a personal view. I agree that you can make a good case that none of them were good value for money with the benefit of hindsight. But that's not necessarily the recruitment team's fault.
    The point I was making is that we fans judge the recruitment team's success on pretty limited knowledge - is the first team doing well; do we enjoy watching the players we are paying to see. We have no idea about the practical limitations under which the recruitment team are working, no idea what their aims and objectives are other than to help the manager(s) create a successful team, no idea about the goals they are being set and no idea about who they may have identified (who might have been successful) but who turned us down and went somewhere else or got vetoed by more senior people in the club. That's why I think the criticism they are getting is unfair.
  22. Clap
    ilkleyram got a reaction from LeedsCityRam in If your reading this Mel.........   
    Hope you had a good Christmas Tyler and happy new year when it comes.
    I wouldn't argue that the recruitment team shouldn't be scrutinised but I would argue that we fans (and Ramage) are the last people who can properly do so because we have no knowledge about who they might identify as possible players or the practical restrictions under which they might operate. All we see are those that actually join us. That's why the constant criticism about what they do is unfair. The scrutiny they receive can only be done from within the club by those who know what they actually do and the restrictions on them. And I do hope that scrutiny is happening because those who run the club should know if mistakes are made, that people learn from them and that they are not repeated. 
    You mention three players. I suspect that the wages and length of contract of each of them were nothing to do with the recruitment team whose job it is to identify possible signings only. Negotiations would be done by someone else - probably Sam Rush in each of those cases. As a fan you can argue with hindsight that none of the players were worth signing. Fine. I disagree. All of them played well at different times and for different periods. I would like Bradley back in the current team, but that's a personal view. I agree that you can make a good case that none of them were good value for money with the benefit of hindsight. But that's not necessarily the recruitment team's fault.
    The point I was making is that we fans judge the recruitment team's success on pretty limited knowledge - is the first team doing well; do we enjoy watching the players we are paying to see. We have no idea about the practical limitations under which the recruitment team are working, no idea what their aims and objectives are other than to help the manager(s) create a successful team, no idea about the goals they are being set and no idea about who they may have identified (who might have been successful) but who turned us down and went somewhere else or got vetoed by more senior people in the club. That's why I think the criticism they are getting is unfair.
  23. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Sasha in If your reading this Mel.........   
    This is not aimed (only) at you Millennium but at those from Ramage upwards who make similar comments about our recruitment team. Clueless is one of the politer descriptions being thrown about.
    Let me say at the outset that I have no inside connection with our club. A fan simple if not pure. But this constant barrage of criticism aimed at a recruitment team, most of whom we don't know and mostly by people outside the game, seems to me to be unfair. They are a bunch of people unable to reply, and who will never be able to do so in any detail, for all kinds of reasons but prime amongst them confidentiality owed to clubs, players and others. We fans have no idea what they do, who they identify and the restrictions under which they operate. We have no idea whether we, or indeed anyone else, could actually do any better.
    We know about players in the vast majority of cases after the event. When they've come, or not and we get to hear gossip about it; when they've played well, or not.  The recruitment team have to operate ahead of time, ahead of transfer windows and, in Derby's case, sometimes ahead of the appointment of the manager that they're going to be playing for. And they have to work with external forces way beyond their control - including, out of a long, long list, FFP, agents, player wages, player desire to play for a particular club/manager, kids schools, wags views about living in the East Midlands or apart from their partner, Mel or Steven Pearce's or the manager's ability and willingness to spend, age, the willingness of their current club to sell.  For all we know they have identified 20 of the country's top young prospects and been turned down because of one or all of the above reasons.  What if a striker playing for Exeter City was identified and approached by the recruitment team but turned us down because his girlfriend didn't want to move to Derby.  Does that count as a failure? What if said striker wanted £20k a week but Steven Pearce said no and he went elsewhere. Is that a failure by our recruitment team?
    Our recruitment team have identified Shinnie - not bad for a free - Bielik, brought in Bogle and Marriott and others and in time gone by Keogh and others. They've also had players who haven't played so well for us but perhaps the limiting factors have been outside their control.
    I have no idea whether our recruitment is or isn't the problem and I would suggest nor does anyone outside the club. All of our current players - every single one of them - have had periods in their Rams career when they've played well (some periods shorter than others), when most of us have thought 'they're doing OK'.  Collectively they haven't been able to put a consistent spell of playing well over 90 minutes over several weeks for several managers and several years now.  Maybe that's not only the recruitment team's fault.
    Happy Christmas, and peace to all men (and women)
  24. Cheers
    ilkleyram reacted to David in If your reading this Mel.........   
    Excellent post. Thank you. 
  25. Like
    ilkleyram got a reaction from Steve How Hard? in If your reading this Mel.........   
    This is not aimed (only) at you Millennium but at those from Ramage upwards who make similar comments about our recruitment team. Clueless is one of the politer descriptions being thrown about.
    Let me say at the outset that I have no inside connection with our club. A fan simple if not pure. But this constant barrage of criticism aimed at a recruitment team, most of whom we don't know and mostly by people outside the game, seems to me to be unfair. They are a bunch of people unable to reply, and who will never be able to do so in any detail, for all kinds of reasons but prime amongst them confidentiality owed to clubs, players and others. We fans have no idea what they do, who they identify and the restrictions under which they operate. We have no idea whether we, or indeed anyone else, could actually do any better.
    We know about players in the vast majority of cases after the event. When they've come, or not and we get to hear gossip about it; when they've played well, or not.  The recruitment team have to operate ahead of time, ahead of transfer windows and, in Derby's case, sometimes ahead of the appointment of the manager that they're going to be playing for. And they have to work with external forces way beyond their control - including, out of a long, long list, FFP, agents, player wages, player desire to play for a particular club/manager, kids schools, wags views about living in the East Midlands or apart from their partner, Mel or Steven Pearce's or the manager's ability and willingness to spend, age, the willingness of their current club to sell.  For all we know they have identified 20 of the country's top young prospects and been turned down because of one or all of the above reasons.  What if a striker playing for Exeter City was identified and approached by the recruitment team but turned us down because his girlfriend didn't want to move to Derby.  Does that count as a failure? What if said striker wanted £20k a week but Steven Pearce said no and he went elsewhere. Is that a failure by our recruitment team?
    Our recruitment team have identified Shinnie - not bad for a free - Bielik, brought in Bogle and Marriott and others and in time gone by Keogh and others. They've also had players who haven't played so well for us but perhaps the limiting factors have been outside their control.
    I have no idea whether our recruitment is or isn't the problem and I would suggest nor does anyone outside the club. All of our current players - every single one of them - have had periods in their Rams career when they've played well (some periods shorter than others), when most of us have thought 'they're doing OK'.  Collectively they haven't been able to put a consistent spell of playing well over 90 minutes over several weeks for several managers and several years now.  Maybe that's not only the recruitment team's fault.
    Happy Christmas, and peace to all men (and women)
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