Transfer rumours

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I’m really disappointed that we are down to only looking at loans already, even if they are all successful, it doesn’t change the fact we are looking at another rebuild in 10 months time.

We have six players contracted beyond the next two years. Built on sand. 

We can only operate to a certain budget though which of course is frustrating and Warne doesn’t seem to want to throw in our produced youngsters at this point and will go for the streetwise experienced professionals come a league match. What does surprise me is that a decent championship or lower standard premiership non playing centre forward can’t be attracted to our club because we have a gaping vacancy even for a loan. Probably a tall centre forward might help our faster guys because so far Vickers is aiming for the halfway line left back to maybe win a header if vickers hasn’t put it into touch which I have seen him do on at least 4 occasions so far. We can’t pass out from the back because our opponents so far have all been aware that we have no one at centre forward winning the ball so they force to kick it long.

[maxjam]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Didn't Warne in League 1 say he wanted to sign players to play in the Championship? 

"...Explaining the type of player he needs, Warne told Rams TV: "I could have signed eight players who could have potentially improved the squad, but it's about getting the very best ones you can.

But we are trying to sign players that don't want to be in this league if that makes sense. We need ones who can play in the league above, ones with experience and a bit of hair on their back ideally."

And we have got players that can play in the Championship.  Nelson, Bradley, Nyambe, Elder, Wilson etc.  All did well yesterday (expect for Wilson who went off injured).  Doesn't mean many of them are top end Championship players though - and lets face it, top end Championship players wouldn't have come to a Lg1 team anyway.  

PW now states that he wants first team players.  The players I listed would make for good (or very good) squad players but we should be looking for better now.

I personally think we're in a marathon and are setting the pace accordingly.  I think some fans think its a sprint and have set off too fast.

[IlsonDerby]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

It is simple economics though, you can't create wealth out of thin air unless you rob a bank.

I've not even mentioned the fees involved yet you seen to have slammed shut this avenue without any consideration as if I'm advocating shelling out millions on one player. 

The analolgy is rubbish though. You ‘need’ a place to live, you don’t need a new third choice CB. 
 

The other pitfall to your analogy is that by loaning from prem you are usually guaranteeing higher quality for ‘now’ and unfortunately football is played in the now. 
 

Take for example Ozoh vs Fornah. One could be developed to make a profit on or save us money. One is better quality right now and gives us a better chance of staying up which is crucial to any future success. 
 

Id love us to go full football manager and sign 10 players in the 18-25 age bracket for small fees in the hope 5/6 of them make it good but that has to be balanced with the right now. 

[IlsonDerby]

3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

So next season we need another 7 starters and 5 squad players. We might extend some (such as Wilson and Nelson), but we would also be looking to move a couple on so no net difference.

There's no reason not to go in for a young CB (such as Wiredu) who will compete with our other options this season with the view to being an established starter next season. We could also gamble on a young and cheap CF from abroad, who will then be one of 4 CFs next season. It's poor long term planning IMO.

GK: Zetterstrom, Vickers

RCB: ???, Nyambe, Rooney

CB: ???, ???

LCB: Cashin, ???

RWB: ???, Ward

LWB: ???, Elder

RCM: Goudmijn, Adams, DRobinson

LCM: ???, Osborn, ???

RW: ???, Jackson

LW: Mendez-Laing, Blackett-Taylor

CF: ???  DBrown, ???, ???

So let’s say we stay up, with a second year of championship income perhaps the permanant signings can account for 3 or even 4 players? We’d be much more attractive option for out of contract players and prem loans. We also have January too if we look like we’ve got a good chance of staying up. 
 

 

[FlyBritishMidland]

I also think the transfer market has shifted dramatically this year.  Middlesbrough were able to bring on a 21 year old striker they’d just paid £4.5m for.  The top scorer in the Championship has just gone to Ipswich for a fee of £9m, rising to £11m - he’s 28 on a 4 year deal.  OK, it’s the to a PL club, but principle of how much you have to pay remains as Blackburn wanted £15m.  If we were paying £m’s for a 28 year old on a 4 year deal some would bemoan the potential resale value.  Even 2 players we had on loan 2 years ago who couldn’t get a regular starting place have been sold for a combined £20m - £25m.  Dobbin has been loaned but I suspect it’s a sizeable loan fee.

I think we’ve focused the permanent signings in the right areas - keeper and midfield.  We were sparse in those areas in the summer with 1 keeper and 2 midfielders, one of which we now know wanted to leave.  Loaning in the striker and defence positions makes sense.  It gives the likes of Brown to develop and the Sporting Intelligence and scouting teams to focus on finding the hidden gems in those areas for next Summer.  Over the next couple of years, and as we, hopefully, become more established in the Championship, we’ll be less reliant on the loan market.  These things take time.

Edited August 18 by FlyBritishMidland

[rammieib]

2 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I also think the transfer market has shifted dramatically this year.  Middlesbrough were able to bring on a 21 year old striker they’d just paid £4.5m for.  The top scorer in the Championship has just gone to Ipswich for a fee of £9m, rising to £11m - he’s 28 on a 4 year deal.  OK, it’s the to a PL club, but principle of how much you have to pay remains as Blackburn wanted £15m.  If we were paying £m’s for a 28 year old on a 4 year deal some would bemoan the potential resale value.  Even 2 players we had on loan 2 years ago who couldn’t get a regular starting place have been sold for a combined £20m - £25m.  Dobbin has been loaned but I suspect it’s a sizeable loan fee.

I think we’ve focused the permanent signings in the right areas - keeper and midfield.  We were sparse in those areas in the summer with 1 keeper and 2 midfielders, one of which we now know wanted to leave.  Loaning in the striker and defence positions makes sense.  It gives the likes of Brown to develop and the Sporting Intelligence and scouting teams to focus on finding the hidden gems in those areas for next Summer.  Over the next couple of years, and as we, hopefully, become more established in the Championship, we’ll be less reliant on the loan market.  These things take time.

It also shows the value of attracting players whose contracts have expired.

Getting in a £1m to 3m player on a free transfer is a huge coup.

Ive got every trust in our off field team to find these players (sarcasm).

[Loughborough Ram]

In response to no post in particular.

We shouldn't be surprised that if we can't moan about yesterday's result, we'll find something else we can moan about.

Our recruitment is the best it can be at this moment in time. There are so many invariables when signing players that it's impossible to justifiably have a go the club when we don't get the players that fans would like. Wages, location, game time, ambition, personality, timing of availability are just some of the things in the process that can derail a transfer, so to get all of that in line isn't as straight forward as we pretend it to be.

In fairness Warne is possibly a little too accommodating when it comes to commenting on transfers, occasionally saying nothing is the better option. I remember Arthur Cox saying absolutely nothing about anything, week after week and so to me, Warnes approach is refreshing in comparison.

We have 2 weeks to go in the window, and the club expect us to add to our squad so surely the best time to start moaning about our recruitment is once the window is shut, and the business we've done, can be judged fairly.

[Tyler Durden]

30 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The analolgy is rubbish though. You ‘need’ a place to live, you don’t need a new third choice CB. 
 

The other pitfall to your analogy is that by loaning from prem you are usually guaranteeing higher quality for ‘now’ and unfortunately football is played in the now. 
 

Take for example Ozoh vs Fornah. One could be developed to make a profit on or save us money. One is better quality right now and gives us a better chance of staying up which is crucial to any future success. 
 

Id love us to go full football manager and sign 10 players in the 18-25 age bracket for small fees in the hope 5/6 of them make it good but that has to be balanced with the right now. 

You're getting into the realms of Maslows Hierarchy now.

The analogy is valid if you agree that the short term need is provided by renting a place but the long term requirement of owning your own place isn't.

I was after all replying to the post which said our transfer strategy is akin to building a house on quicksand as there's no foundations as we will never own the assets we are paying for to paraphrase the OP. 

I have to say that your quote of football is played in the now is exactly the reason why we got into the financial mess we did so was hoping that DC would want to avoid that at all costs. 

[dcfcjj]

@SECornerRAM you got anything for us? 

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

We can only operate to a certain budget though which of course is frustrating and Warne doesn’t seem to want to throw in our produced youngsters at this point and will go for the streetwise experienced professionals come a league match. What does surprise me is that a decent championship or lower standard premiership non playing centre forward can’t be attracted to our club because we have a gaping vacancy even for a loan. Probably a tall centre forward might help our faster guys because so far Vickers is aiming for the halfway line left back to maybe win a header if vickers hasn’t put it into touch which I have seen him do on at least 4 occasions so far. We can’t pass out from the back because our opponents so far have all been aware that we have no one at centre forward winning the ball so they force to kick it long.

Loan players aren’t cheap, they’re monetised assets for premier league clubs to help with PSR. If you spend good money on loan players, you will in turn open the door to a higher class of player than you perhaps could’ve signed permanently. Nevertheless, it’s obviously a short-term strategy - it does benefit the manager/coaching staff who are really only a bad month from the sack so perhaps there isn’t much thought or care that goes into the long-term. I can’t say I blame them. 

[Tyler Durden]

17 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

In response to no post in particular.

We shouldn't be surprised that if we can't moan about yesterday's result, we'll find something else we can moan about.

Our recruitment is the best it can be at this moment in time. There are so many invariables when signing players that it's impossible to justifiably have a go the club when we don't get the players that fans would like. Wages, location, game time, ambition, personality, timing of availability are just some of the things in the process that can derail a transfer, so to get all of that in line isn't as straight forward as we pretend it to be.

In fairness Warne is possibly a little too accommodating when it comes to commenting on transfers, occasionally saying nothing is the better option. I remember Arthur Cox saying absolutely nothing about anything, week after week and so to me, Warnes approach is refreshing in comparison.

We have 2 weeks to go in the window, and the club expect us to add to our squad so surely the best time to start moaning about our recruitment is once the window is shut, and the business we've done, can be judged fairly.

I don't see any moaning on here per se, more observations really on our apparent relative sterility in the transfer market and frustrations about our inability to bring in players in positions it has been obvious to the world and his uncle we need strengthening in. 

Am not sure how you can say our recruitment is the best it can be because you do not have an insiders knowledge of what has been going on at the club in the same manner no one else on this forum is privy to equally say it hasn't. 

DC twice now has made, in my opinion, the faux pas of mentioning competitive transfers budgets which am sure in hindsight he won't make on a third occasion. 

[Thameram]

3 good loan signings please like mount, tomori and Wilson would do 

[Loughborough Ram]

26 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I don't see any moaning on here per se, more observations really on our apparent relative sterility in the transfer market and frustrations about our inability to bring in players in positions it has been obvious to the world and his uncle we need strengthening in. 

Am not sure how you can say our recruitment is the best it can be because you do not have an insiders knowledge of what has been going on at the club in the same manner no one else on this forum is privy to equally say it hasn't. 

DC twice now has made, in my opinion, the faux pas of mentioning competitive transfers budgets which am sure in hindsight he won't make on a third occasion. 

I say that it's the best it can be at the moment because I don't believe that anybody within the recruitment process at the club, is not doing their very best to get the highest level of quality to the club that they can.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, Loughborough Ram said:

I say that it's the best it can be at the moment because I don't believe that anybody within the recruitment process at the club, is not doing their very best to get the highest level of quality to the club that they can.

I don't doubt that for a minute, as I said previously the frustration simmering on here is our apparent inability to seal the deals. 

Best intentions are great, the output of the exercise is to get players in through the door which is what ultimately our recruitment this summer will be judged on. 

Still a fortnight or so left so let's see what happens. 

[S8TY]

42 minutes ago, Thameram said:

3 good loan signings please like mount, tomori and Wilson would do 

I don't think Mount would leave United for us personally 

[rams_1233]

Anything on incomings?@SECornerRAM

[Rich3478]

2 hours ago, Srg said:

He signed for West Brom from Salford for £300k. That’s the signing we need to be making. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Everyone wants a league two striker for £300k to be your main target man. Doesn’t happen often though.

However is easier to find the level of striker needed if you can spend the money to get one

[Caerphilly Ram]

It’s an interesting discussion, the recruitment strategy, the budget, the signings so far, the potential further recruitment this window. Looking to summarise what’s been done up to now…

Permanent signings (I’m including CBT as he technically joined permanently in summer);

Ben Osborn (free)

Kayden Jackson (free)

Ebou Adams (fee “undisclosed” but rumoured anywhere between £400k and an eventual £900k)

Corey Blackett-Taylor (free)

Kenzo Goudmijn (fee, “undisclosed” but rumoured somewhere between £600k and £800k)

Jacob Widell Zetterström (fee “undisclosed” but our loose lipped Swedish friends suggest around £1.4m)

Rohan Luthra (free)

Loan signings;

David Ozoh

Jerry Yates

Academy recruits;

Morten Spencer, Alex Stepien-Iwumene, Jerome Richards, Freddie Turley and Emmanuel Ilesanmi all joined the u21s.

So far that’s 9 “senior” additions and the 5 u21s. Some work has been done to identify and recruit those 14 players.
Fees somewhere between £2-3 million have been spent on the permanent deals along with whatever signing on fees for the free agents. The signings of Wilson and Washington (and Fornah?) last summer involved conditional fees in the event of promotion if I recall rightly? So potentially more money spent there, though that may be relatively small amounts 🤔 

Looking at that, I think there has been some good work and some money spent, and also that potentially it could have been better still. I’d like to see us sign a couple more permanently, in that core age bracket of 21-28 years old, maybe from abroad or the lower leagues if budget allows. It must be a strange balancing act for the decision makers at the club, the potential additional quality of the right prem loans could make all the difference so spending a fee of a few hundred grand may make sense, but also taking a chance on a Wiredu or someone to secure a footballer who might step up to the level comfortably and be part of the squad for a few years also makes sense.

Not really sure what I’m saying in my rambling post, just trying to gather my thoughts on it in one place. I don’t think we’re done yet, whether that is loans or permanent additions, there’s also that potential for free agents like the Nyambe deal last summer… Gotta wait and see what happens in the next two weeks I guess. Always fun times.

Edited August 18 by Caerphilly Ram

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Any idea what I should have for tea @SECornerRAM

[CBX1985]

2 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

I also think the transfer market has shifted dramatically this year.  Middlesbrough were able to bring on a 21 year old striker they’d just paid £4.5m for.  The top scorer in the Championship has just gone to Ipswich for a fee of £9m, rising to £11m - he’s 28 on a 4 year deal.  OK, it’s the to a PL club, but principle of how much you have to pay remains as Blackburn wanted £15m.  If we were paying £m’s for a 28 year old on a 4 year deal some would bemoan the potential resale value.  Even 2 players we had on loan 2 years ago who couldn’t get a regular starting place have been sold for a combined £20m - £25m.  Dobbin has been loaned but I suspect it’s a sizeable loan fee.

I think we’ve focused the permanent signings in the right areas - keeper and midfield.  We were sparse in those areas in the summer with 1 keeper and 2 midfielders, one of which we now know wanted to leave.  Loaning in the striker and defence positions makes sense.  It gives the likes of Brown to develop and the Sporting Intelligence and scouting teams to focus on finding the hidden gems in those areas for next Summer.  Over the next couple of years, and as we, hopefully, become more established in the Championship, we’ll be less reliant on the loan market.  These things take time.

Absolutely 100% this.

We have an academy which is probably a year or so from bearing fruit again.  If we assume that Brown (and maybe Weston) makes it, we may have less and declining need of paying permanents and loans. This would mean those signings we do need to make can be given greater budget.

Why pay x millions for a striker when one we already own might be around the corner, so we may be better waiting and utilising the loan market to bridge the gap.  Our aim is to survive, not to get promoted, so paying top money at this stage is likely a waste.