1of4 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 If the footballing experts are to be believed, we have the most skilful pool of young players that an England manager as ever had available to choose from. What does Southgate do with this abundance of riches. He as them playing the most turgid football possible. While I want to see my team playing exciting attractive football, I've always been an advocate of win at any cost. Unfortunately England under Southgate's tenure is doing neither. Yes this approach along with some luck and a few flashes of magic may have got us to two finals. Which we ultimately lost to teams that were better coached. So do we stick and hope Southgate's tactics will eventually win us something. Or do we twist and look for someone, who can blend all our young skilful players into a team. That will see us winning a final, and if possible do it in a way that will not only excite every English fan but also the whole of the footballing world. Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm not sure how you link me liking getting to semis/finals (3 in 4 tournaments) to believing we were the 2nd best team in the Euros. It’s just you said that you were happy for Southgate to continue because you like getting to semi-finals and finals. I read that like you expected this would be the norm should we continue with Southgate. I would counter saying under Southgate we have shown an inability to beat the better sides, and in all likelihood, we will exit the next World Cup at what ever stage we actually face a top side. I can no longer use the top 10 ranked bracket after beating the Dutch. That may have to change to a top 5 ranked side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: It’s just you said that you were happy for Southgate to continue because you like getting to semi-finals and finals. I read that like you expected this would be the norm should we continue with Southgate. I would counter saying under Southgate we have shown an inability to beat the better sides, and in all likelihood, we will exit the next World Cup at what ever stage we actually face a top side. I can no longer use the top 10 ranked bracket after beating the Dutch. That may have to change to a top 5 ranked side. And I would counter that we lost one Euros final on pens and got very close to winning the last one. Your main complaint with Southgate is that we haven't beaten many top sides, when these games are decided by very tight margains. My main reason for keeping him is that we are likely to see a downturn in results with a new manager, especially as all recent managers have been unable to cope with the toxicity of the role, or the neverending pressure created by millions of experts who know we just need to play x instead of y, or go for it more, or etc etc. Southgate has also expertley man-managed lots of highly paid and egotistic young men, who were all desperate to play for their country. Something previous managers were unable to do. Remember Brave John Terry playing against our woeful team 4 days after missing England's defeat to Croatia and elmination from the Euros? But Southgate must go cos he should have played Gordon. Or we were poor in a group game. Everything else is ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) Just out of interest, what would people on here rather happen: England win a major tournament or Derby get promoted this coming season? Watched the final with a group of Derby fans and opinion was pretty much split down the middle. Edited July 16 by Scott129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Just now, Scott129 said: Just out of interest, what would people on here rather happen: England winning a major tournament or Derby getting promoted this coming season? Watched the final with a group of Derby fans and opinion was pretty much split down the middle. I'll let you decide, but personally I'm more excited about seeing the Rams on Friday than I was about the England team on Sunday. I didn't see more than 10 minutes of the final. Mucker1884, Gabby'sThighs, Scott129 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) I would say Southgate has turned the England team around for the better but I think he fell into picking the player/name not the performance trap that so many managers have done and stuck by a few players that maybe weren’t in form. Unfortunately he only really had one way of playing which unfortunately is not to the strengths of most of our players. Edited July 16 by Gritstone Ram Alph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 12 minutes ago, Scott129 said: Just out of interest, what would people on here rather happen: England win a major tournament or Derby get promoted this coming season? Watched the final with a group of Derby fans and opinion was pretty much split down the middle. I always say club before country, but I've seen Derby promoted before so think I would have to say a major tournament win for England now, especially as I'm completely uninterested with the Premier League these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 10 hours ago, 1of4 said: If the footballing experts are to be believed, we have the most skilful pool of young players that an England manager as ever had available to choose from. What does Southgate do with this abundance of riches. He as them playing the most turgid football possible. While I want to see my team playing exciting attractive football, I've always been an advocate of win at any cost. Unfortunately England under Southgate's tenure is doing neither. Yes this approach along with some luck and a few flashes of magic may have got us to two finals. Which we ultimately lost to teams that were better coached. So do we stick and hope Southgate's tactics will eventually win us something. Or do we twist and look for someone, who can blend all our young skilful players into a team. That will see us winning a final, and if possible do it in a way that will not only excite every English fan but also the whole of the footballing world. Who are you classing as 'the football experts'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabby'sThighs Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 I would absolutely choose a Derby promotion, even if we came straight back down. I get far more pleasure from watching & following Derby than England. A big part of that is how entitled England fans have been during the Euros, and how unbearable they would be after winning a trophy! The good vibes Southgate brought from 2016 onwards gone, replaced with so much bitterness and endless bloody complaining. Reggie Greenwood and archram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 24 minutes ago, Scott129 said: Just out of interest, what would people on here rather happen: England win a major tournament or Derby get promoted this coming season? Watched the final with a group of Derby fans and opinion was pretty much split down the middle. Derby get promoted every time Scott129 and RoyMac5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 9 minutes ago, Gabby'sThighs said: I would absolutely choose a Derby promotion, even if we came straight back down. I get far more pleasure from watching & following Derby than England. A big part of that is how entitled England fans have been during the Euros, and how unbearable they would be after winning a trophy! The good vibes Southgate brought from 2016 onwards gone, replaced with so much bitterness and endless bloody complaining. If we entitlement is a big sticking point for you, wasn't last season as a Derby fan a bit of an eye opener for you? Do you remember the treatment of Warne after the Stevenage match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 13 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Do you honestly believe we were the second best team at the Euros? I don’t take issue that you like Southgate because you like how he has brought the team together, how we play, how he conducts himself etc. But his record against the better teams is poor. Reaching the semi-final and finals has largely been dependent on avoiding the top teams until that stage. I just don’t see that changing. And Southgate’s luck of the draw may finally runout at 2026 and we limp out to a Brazil, Portugal, France or Spain in the 1/4 finals and his record tarnished. Something I saw the other day, not sure how true it is because couldn't be arsed to research it, but Denmark were a top 10 ranked team when we beat them at Euro 2021. Also I think it was 16 out of his 26 matches in tournaments were against sides ranked top 20 in the world at the time of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 33 minutes ago, Scott129 said: Just out of interest, what would people on here rather happen: England win a major tournament or Derby get promoted this coming season? We wouldn't get an extra bank holiday if Derby got promoted, so I'm going with Engerland Gabby'sThighs, richinspain, ariotofmyown and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 16 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said: Derby get promoted every time Yep, same for me. Don't get me wrong - I really wanted England to win it, but I noticed that I felt absolutely no nervousness at all on Saturday. If it was a big game for Derby, I'd have been bricking it in the run-up. I was disappointed that we lost but I didn't lose any sleep over it. Reggie Greenwood, RoyMac5, Chester40 and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Well he's gone anyway. Whoever we get better be able to keep the team spirit and love for playing for England at the same standard. A lot of what turned people off England was a bunch of superstars who were more bothered about their clubs and their sponsors and the super duper Premier League. Southgate at least brought back pride ariotofmyown and Gabby'sThighs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Who are you classing as 'the football experts'? Ooh you got me. Yes I was using the term footballing expert rather loosely. I was referring to the ex-players, ex-managers and coaches that we hear giving their opinions all over the media. That most ordinary fans will consider to have more knowledge about football than themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 11 minutes ago, 1of4 said: Ooh you got me. Yes I was using the term footballing expert rather loosely. I was referring to the ex-players, ex-managers and coaches that we hear giving their opinions all over the media. That most ordinary fans will consider to have more knowledge about football than themselves. I think I just take exception being told that lots of failed managers, and that's what a lot of these pundits are, somehow have a more valid view on football and management than the every day fan. Having watched club football and international football for over 40 years, I don't see why my views on how a manager is doing are any less valid than theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabby'sThighs Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: If we entitlement is a big sticking point for you, wasn't last season as a Derby fan a bit of an eye opener for you? Do you remember the treatment of Warne after the Stevenage match? I didn't like the treatment of Warne & the players around that time - booing & abusing your own team is rarely justified. There are always a few d*ckheads around. The other side of the last 3 seasons is there has been a great spirit and a sense of hope amongst the Derby fanbase. However, wanting Derby to win and play entertaining football in League One is a bit different to carping on about how sh*t Southgate is when he got England to two finals and a semi in major tournaments. Losing badly to Stevenage after a very slow start to the season is a much worse situation than almost drawing in a final with a Spain team that blew away Germany, Italy, France, and Croatia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk Thrust Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 On 15/07/2024 at 12:40, cannable said: We did better than I expected, but every single time it comes to a game like this the same thing happens. We don’t keep the ball. Carrick would play in this team over Rice every single day of the week (probably alongside, to be fair). I’ve been a STH at West Ham for years and I’ve never rated Rice. £100m midfielder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 48 minutes ago, Alph said: Southgate at least brought back pride I'm a proud Englishman...so Who did he bring this pride back to...Players, Pundits, Media or fans Players...of unimaginable wealth Pundits...who are paid to Bla Bla Bla Media...who swing from tree to tree to look for their next headline Fans...who demand we win. Not a pop at you Alph just a question 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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