More restricted this year

[The Key Club King]

It does worry me looking at the table about who we can compete with financially. There are some very well-funded teams just hanging around lower mid-table.

It is obviously up to Clowes what he choses to put in to the club - he has earned the right to pretty much do as he wants really. The last time we were in the bottom 6 or 8 in terms of budget is when GSE and Clough were in charge and that ended in protests as they were "only" covering £2 or £3 million pounds of losses each year. 

[jimbobram]

5 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

It does worry me looking at the table about who we can compete with financially. There are some very well-funded teams just hanging around lower mid-table.

It is obviously up to Clowes what he choses to put in to the club - he has earned the right to pretty much do as he wants really. The last time we were in the bottom 6 or 8 in terms of budget is when GSE and Clough were in charge and that ended in protests as they were "only" covering £2 or £3 million pounds of losses each year. 

We know Clowes will run the club properly, so im not worried that he will pile up debt. It does however mean that recruitment needs to be spot on. Frees and loans will take up the bulk of this window and im happy for that

[sage]

21 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

A few of you have mentioned about the struggles of competing against clubs with parachute payments. This isn't new to us. We've only ever known this. However, we are also not particularly competing with those teams, we are competing against those teams who aren't receiving parachute payments, because a realistic goal is to stay in the league next season. We are competing for signings that probably 12-14 clubs in the championship are going for. 

Which is the point. Mid table would be success because we will have a mid table budget.

[On the Ram Page]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Which is the point. Mid table would be success because we will have a mid table budget.

We have, but because we had an aging, less than athletic team, we need to recruit more players (probably) than other more established teams, which will stretch our budget to the limit, in my opinion.

[sage]

49 minutes ago, On the Ram Page said:

We have, but because we had an aging, less than athletic team, we need to recruit more players (probably) than other more established teams, which will stretch our budget to the limit, in my opinion.

Agreed. That's why it would be a success not just par.

 

[S8TY]

Luckily although it’s obviously beneficial to have larger spending power football is still played on the grass and being astute in the market and on the pitch can reap rewards 

There are plenty of teams who do well on lesser budgets 

im not expecting promotion or anything but I also would be dissapointed if we’re  floundering around near the relegation area 

[Chesterfield_Ram]

While it's easy to look at the negative side of things regarding the size of our budget in comparison to other clubs, there are benefits to having a smaller budget.

1 - Focus on developing youth. Clubs with lower budgets tend to have to look to invest heavily in their youth set ups. With our track record of providing first team opportunities to younger players, the club could be an attractive prospect for talented young players in the area. As well as this, young players who develop in-house tend to have stronger loyalties towards the club that developed them. This can help create a stronger sense of togetherness, just look at the impact we've seen in previous years from out younger players.

2 - Effective scouting. As we can't just go out and handpick players, the scouting system is forced to find innovative and smarter ways of identifying talent, perhaps looking to find undervalued markets to exploit. As it will be harder for the scouts they will need to improve their way of doing things, which could help them develop in the long term as well.

3 - Financial stability. As we aren't close to getting promotion from the championship, the club doesn't necessarily need to overspend on trying to get the final piece of the puzzle so to say. We've all heard and seen how DC wants to run the club sustainably, which may have some short term pain on the way to success in the long term. We may not be ready to challenge for promotion from the championship for 5 seasons or more, but when we are back we will be in a better place to succeed.

4 - Player development pathways. This is similar to my first point. A number of teams who have gone up through the leagues have focused on developing players then selling them on for profit. They then invest this profit in more players to develop then sell them on for more profit and continue doing this. We've all seen how many young players have come though our system and now we are in the championship we could demand higher fees. Didn't Bournemouth bid £9 million for Cashin a number of years ago? We have a number of good players to develop in the club, who we could potentially sell on for big money in the future, and then we can invest this in numerous players to develop further.

[Chesterfield_Ram]

12 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

It does worry me looking at the table about who we can compete with financially. There are some very well-funded teams just hanging around lower mid-table.

It is obviously up to Clowes what he choses to put in to the club - he has earned the right to pretty much do as he wants really. The last time we were in the bottom 6 or 8 in terms of budget is when GSE and Clough were in charge and that ended in protests as they were "only" covering £2 or £3 million pounds of losses each year. 

This was very era was very early in my time supporting the club, so I can't comment on the feelings around the club at the time. But, is this current era not different. At the time of GSE coming in in 2008 we had recently been at a relative high in terms of being promoted to the premier league, but the club started plummeting from the start of 'that' season (as it was my first season properly following football, I spent the following seasons being amazed at how unlucky teams were to get relegated after getting more than 20 points in a season), 20th in PL, 18th, 14th, 19th in Championship in successive seasons. Essentially, we were in a decline with no clear evidence of it stopping.

At the moment, we are on our way up again. Stephen Pearce has talked about the club having a long term view of things, which makes sense imo. Next season, following promotion, we should be looking at staying up, the year after we should be looking at a comfortable below mid table finish at the very least, the season after that we should aim to be slightly above mid table and so on. If the club follows this trend I suspect the realistic fans would be happy, as we are progressing back to where Derby County should be in the pyramid.

Regarding your point about the last time the club were in the bottom 6 or 8 in terms of budget ending in protests. I only see this happening if the club show no signs of moving forward (if we become a Rotherham for example). However, for the first time in a long time I trust our owner in David Clowes. I genuinely feel like he can create long term sustainable success at the club, like he and his family have done at Clowes Developments. It may well be that our current and previous owners' time and achievements at the club reflect how they have done so well in business. DC and Clowes Developments being built up sustainably, while MM's time as Derby owner is similar to the game his company made. Lots of things to get exited about while it's happening only to have very little when its not being played. 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Not a fan of the way the thread is titled, but I take the point you are trying to make.

We are no longer the biggest fish in the pond, but I also don't believe we will be coming in to the league with a relegation worthy budget. My expectation is that we end up lower mid-table. Clear of relegation but not troubling the top six. As a first season back after what we went through I'd be perfectly happy with that. I do not believe that is arrogant or overly optimistic. I'd wager that Clowes and Warne are thinking along the same lines.

If we are clear of the drop I fully expect Warne's job will be safe in the eyes of Clowes regardless of the type of football we are playing. If we do end up in a relegation scrap then it will be because we have recruited poorly and/or the team (management and players) have underperformed. We should be looking up not down.

[Day]

Fans will be more restricted, Puma shirts are cut a lot tighter than Umbro, going to be some horrors walking round Derby city centre.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Just now, Day said:

Fans will be more restricted, Puma shirts are cut a lot tighter than Umbro, going to be some horrors walking round Derby city centre.

Myself included if I keep packing away KFC at the current rate.

[sage]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Not a fan of the way the thread is titled, but I take the point you are trying to make.

We are no longer the biggest fish in the pond, but I also don't believe we will be coming in to the league with a relegation worthy budget. My expectation is that we end up lower mid-table. Clear of relegation but not troubling the top six. As a first season back after what we went through I'd be perfectly happy with that. I do not believe that is arrogant or overly optimistic. I'd wager that Clowes and Warne are thinking along the same lines.

If we are clear of the drop I fully expect Warne's job will be safe in the eyes of Clowes regardless of the type of football we are playing. If we do end up in a relegation scrap then it will be because we have recruited poorly and/or the team (management and players) have underperformed. We should be looking up not down.

I used the term 'mid table budget'. 

Not sure anyone has said 'relegation worthy' budget.

 

[Returning ram]

20 hours ago, sage said:

Perhaps just wait those posts instead of arguing against potential posts.

4

Who is arguing 🤔

I was merely pointing out about what will probably happen, of course I didn't expect to be proved right within 72 hours, but you can always rely on some 🤣

[Nuwtfly]

43 minutes ago, sage said:

I used the term 'mid table budget'. 

Not sure anyone has said 'relegation worthy' budget.

 

you have to be careful how you describe our budget on here, you know!

[Gerry Daly]

17 hours ago, The Key Club King said:

It does worry me looking at the table about who we can compete with financially. There are some very well-funded teams just hanging around lower mid-table.

It is obviously up to Clowes what he choses to put in to the club - he has earned the right to pretty much do as he wants really. The last time we were in the bottom 6 or 8 in terms of budget is when GSE and Clough were in charge and that ended in protests as they were "only" covering £2 or £3 million pounds of losses each year. 

I think there are some key differences between now and the GSE era

1. We had not just come back from near oblivion and having been punished by the EFL with relegation which we then overturned in two seasons. There is a huge level of good will right now

2. We all know David Clowes is not a billionaire, unlike several of the GSE funders so nobody expects him to lose a big chunk of his family fortune gambling on us

3. Clowes has made it clear that he is here, and reluctantly because there was no alternative, to stabilise the club and run it sustainably. There is no sense whatsoever of him wanting to get us to the premier league as soon as possible. GSE on the other hand clearly thought that if they chucked some money at it they could get us back into the prem and make a killing. When that didn't work they hauled up the draw bridge and went for a long term option, always with an eye on selling and getting their money back 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 hours ago, sage said:

I used the term 'mid table budget'. 

Not sure anyone has said 'relegation worthy' budget.

 

I wasn't suggesting anyone did, just voicing my assumption on what we will be doing and my expectations that are based on that assumption.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

2 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

you have to be careful how you describe our budget on here, you know!

If we are in a relegation scrap we'll have fans howling from the stands that we've not spent enough money.

If we somehow manage to flirt with the playoffs we'll have fans lauding how we have done an amazing job on a shoestring.

Such is the way of it.

[sage]

2 hours ago, Returning ram said:

Who is arguing 🤔

I was merely pointing out about what will probably happen, of course I didn't expect to be proved right within 72 hours, but you can always rely on ONE 🤣

FTFY 😀

[Nuwtfly]

8 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If we are in a relegation scrap we'll have fans howling from the stands that we've not spent enough money.

If we somehow manage to flirt with the playoffs we'll have fans lauding how we have done an amazing job on a shoestring.

Such is the way of it.

I for one will not be using the word shoestring. I also won’t be stepping on any pavement cracks or walk under any ladders. 

[Alty_Ram]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

If we somehow manage to flirt with the playoffs we'll have fans lauding how we have done an amazing job on a shoestring.

But then again of course, even if we've spent just £4.50 and a bobble hat on incoming players, we'll still have lazy journalists discussing 'Big Spending Derby' and fans of certain other blinkered teams who will be convinced of the absolute truth that we've "thrown money at it", "Spending tax payers money after getting off so lightly with a bit of a points deduction" and other miscellaneous garbage.