Finance

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, superfit said:

Whilst your right about attracting investment it has to be at the right time and now is not the right time. 
 

We’re newly promoted, we don’t have much resale value

Imo it’s different to this. People now investing in championship clubs aren’t so much investing in the current value of the club and its squad. They are investing in the possibility of becoming a club that’s in the PL. Our ground, gate, history and standing as a club is a big positive much more so than the club’s current squad, academy-player-potential, current manager etc. 

Some Americans will see it mainly as a roll of the dice as to whether they can find that magic combination of squad and manager. Agree to buy us now - with our meagre squad - and the possible returns if we make the PL in 4 years are stunning 

Now is the time DC should be looking to sell the club 

[RoyMac5]

48 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not sure I understand your logic here.

Now would be the perfect time for someone to invest as they are investing in the potential of our club.

Clowes may be taking a hit but would also be protecting his fortune from losses that any Championship club needs to make to get promoted from this division. 

If anything, now, or even last year, is the perfect time for attracting external investment.

 

44 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Imo it’s different to this. People now investing in championship clubs aren’t so much investing in the current value of the club and its squad. They are investing in the possibility of becoming a club that’s in the PL. Our ground, gate, history and standing as a club is a big positive much more so than the club’s current squad, academy-player-potential, current manager etc. 

Some Americans will see it mainly as a roll of the dice as to whether they can find that magic combination of squad and manager. Agree to buy us now - with our meagre squad - and the possible returns if we make the PL in 4 years are stunning 

Now is the time DC should be looking to sell the club 

Yep. And if we want to compete at a higher level then now is the right time to find investment, whilst we still have things to offer that other Championship or League 1 clubs don't. Memories aren't necessarily long in football - see the Lionel Pickering thread for our own fans remembering ability. So we need to capitalise on who we are and how we might compete before investors look for another Wrexham. Chesterfield maybe?! #COYR 

[LeedsCityRam]

On 30/05/2024 at 13:18, jimtastic56 said:

Red Bull have just purchased a minority share in Leeds Utd , our long time rivals and I am sure think the same about us . Why Leeds , probably think they will get back to the Prem , shortly . Be nice to take 6 pts from them .

Because they're a big city one club team that taps into the 'Yorkshire' brand in a way no other Yorkshire club does. That said, I would be pretty dismayed as a Leeds fan letting Red Bull into the ownership structure given how they've used other clubs to purely promote their brand. 

p.s. Leeds don't see us as rivals exactly. Derby are disliked in the city still because of the playoff semifinal & with the older lads, resentment at Clough's far superior legacy to Revie & Derby stopping them winning the double in 1972. We would rank in their top 10 of most disliked but not in the top 5. Leeds will benchmark themselves against other big cities (Manchester, Liverpool, London clubs). Their perception of us a smaller foe won't be helped by some of our away crowds at Elland Road - that needs to improve going forward.

On 27/05/2024 at 11:38, kevinhectoring said:

Well first, wealthy owners can often attract lucrative sponsor deals which feed straight into FFP calculations. They can also fund academy expenditure, provide decent funding to the women’s team and fund stadium improvements all of which are currently underfunded at Derby. Over a sustained period that would make a big difference to the club and how everyone feels about it  - players and recruits included 

Its fair to say we're on opposite sides of this - I can't think of anything worse than having to 'trust' the intentions of any new foreign owner with no links to Derby. Just out of interest, would you want Clowes involved at all post any takeover? Observing the decision making at clubs like Birmingham & Hull has been jaw dropping at times & the lack of actual football knowledge negates any perceived financial advantage. Wrexham & Leicester have often been lauded as examples of highly successful foreign takeovers but the former has been mainly due to bullying impoverished rivals in National League/League Two (that won't work as well next season) & Leicester have been consistent FFP cheats since the Thais took over but unlike us, have been lucky at key times to avoid sanction.

Given the mood music of FFP/P&S and the medium term likelihood of a football regulator, I would prefer Derby were run sensibly along a model of progressive improvement - much in the same way Coventry, Luton & Preston have been run over the past 5 years. The key difference is our turnover is far superior to all of those 3 clubs so there shouldn't be issues around competitiveness if we have the right backroom & management team. Taking that route previously also brought us closest to promotion to the Prem - GSE under Clough & ultimately McClaren.

[kevinhectoring]

6 hours ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Because they're a big city one club team that taps into the 'Yorkshire' brand in a way no other Yorkshire club does. That said, I would be pretty dismayed as a Leeds fan letting Red Bull into the ownership structure given how they've used other clubs to purely promote their brand. 

p.s. Leeds don't see us as rivals exactly. Derby are disliked in the city still because of the playoff semifinal & with the older lads, resentment at Clough's far superior legacy to Revie & Derby stopping them winning the double in 1972. We would rank in their top 10 of most disliked but not in the top 5. Leeds will benchmark themselves against other big cities (Manchester, Liverpool, London clubs). Their perception of us a smaller foe won't be helped by some of our away crowds at Elland Road - that needs to improve going forward.

Its fair to say we're on opposite sides of this - I can't think of anything worse than having to 'trust' the intentions of any new foreign owner with no links to Derby. Just out of interest, would you want Clowes involved at all post any takeover? Observing the decision making at clubs like Birmingham & Hull has been jaw dropping at times & the lack of actual football knowledge negates any perceived financial advantage. Wrexham & Leicester have often been lauded as examples of highly successful foreign takeovers but the former has been mainly due to bullying impoverished rivals in National League/League Two (that won't work as well next season) & Leicester have been consistent FFP cheats since the Thais took over but unlike us, have been lucky at key times to avoid sanction.

Given the mood music of FFP/P&S and the medium term likelihood of a football regulator, I would prefer Derby were run sensibly along a model of progressive improvement - much in the same way Coventry, Luton & Preston have been run over the past 5 years. The key difference is our turnover is far superior to all of those 3 clubs so there shouldn't be issues around competitiveness if we have the right backroom & management team. Taking that route previously also brought us closest to promotion to the Prem - GSE under Clough & ultimately McClaren.

Understand your perspective.

 

I would really like to see us in the PL in my lifetime and the chances of that occurring with DC (our hero)  are fairly remote.  So I’d accept the risks associated with change of ownership if the change greatly improves the likelihood of promotion. 
I’d add that - despite Boehly’s antics at Chelsea - the risk of new ownership would be modest if the buyer were the owner of a major US sports franchise. I would love to think DC is trying to get his wares in front of some of those owners. There is a lot of competition for their patronage and sadly clubs in the south have more appeal. 

[Crewton]

I see everyone is staying nice and patient. Willing to throw everything up in the air and take risks, just to see a premier league game at Pride Park. Unfortunately for them, I don't think Clowes will take chances with the Rams' existence and they'll just have to chill their bones until he believes he's found the right investment partner.

[RoyMac5]

29 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I see everyone is staying nice and patient. Willing to throw everything up in the air and take risks, just to see a premier league game at Pride Park. Unfortunately for them, I don't think Clowes will take chances with the Rams' existence and they'll just have to chill their bones until he believes he's found the right investment partner.

Were is your evidence that being a 'middling' club and waiting (how long for?!) is any less risky than looking for investment for the Club? Typical reply of 'throw everything up in the air' to make it seem that there's only ever one result from looking for more money! 😄

Edited June 2 by RoyMac5

[Gerry Daly]

Yes. Lets not forget we have got out of league 1 in double quick time. We could very easily have been doing a Bolton and spending a couple more seasons in it. We are a big club, eventually we will rise but we need to build some foundations for a while. I think we are in for a GSE type period of incremental improvement for a couple of seasons. But there will come a point if we are managed carefully that we become a plum opportunity for an investor   

[Crewton]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Were is your evidence that being a 'middling' club and waiting (how long for?!) is any less risky than looking for investment for the Club? Typical reply of 'throw everything up in the air' to make it seem that there's only ever one result from looking for more money! 😄

Under your rules, I don't have to provide any evidence for what I've posted, so I'm not going to.

 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Under your rules, I don't have to provide any evidence for what I've posted, so I'm not going to.

 

Lol. No evidence then, so how long do we wait?

[Tamworthram]

51 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I see everyone is staying nice and patient. Willing to throw everything up in the air and take risks, just to see a premier league game at Pride Park. Unfortunately for them, I don't think Clowes will take chances with the Rams' existence and they'll just have to chill their bones until he believes he's found the right investment partner.

To be fair, I think most of us on this forum may have expressed a desire to see us play in the Premier League again sometime (but haven't been demanding an immediate return) and others have simply said that now is good time to be seeking new investors. I haven't ploughed through the whole thread but I'm not sure there are any/many advocating throwing caution to the wind in order to achieve a return to the "promised land".

[Crewton]

11 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

To be fair, I think most of us on this forum may have expressed a desire to see us play in the Premier League again sometime (but haven't been demanding an immediate return) and others have simply said that now is good time to be seeking new investors. I haven't ploughed through the whole thread but I'm not sure there are any/many advocating throwing caution to the wind in order to achieve a return to the "promised land".

I agree it's a minority, but I didn't want to pick out individuals. I understand fans' desire for us not to be left behind, but I find the eagerness to become yet another club snapped up by US owners a bit sad. When we were in trouble and going under, the best America could do was Kirschner. GSE were responsible owners, but having dealt with Americans in business, I'm not a fan.

[RoyMac5]

36 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I agree it's a minority, but I didn't want to pick out individuals. I understand fans' desire for us not to be left behind, but I find the eagerness to become yet another club snapped up by US owners a bit sad. When we were in trouble and going under, the best America could do was Kirschner. GSE were responsible owners, but having dealt with Americans in business, I'm not a fan.

Of course not. 😄

No-one on here has suggested "throw everything up in the air and take risks". Well unless you mean the risk of operating a Championship club without enough money coming in? Like now?

You don't want Yanks in but are you wanting yet another 'home grown fan', like Pickering? Like Mel? Like who then? Longson?

Edited June 2 by RoyMac5

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

the best America could do was Kirschner. GSE were responsible owners, but having dealt with Americans in business, I'm not a fan.

You make it sound as if Kirchner was despatched to derby by a presidential task force.  
 

Have you had business dealings with Russians, or Chinese? They can be quite challenging - Indonesians too. Some Middle Eastern gents can be a handful, as many in the horse racing world would tell you. Ironically Quantuma seemed to think the most tricky they dealt with was someone closer to home who sells lots of tracksuits 

[Crewton]

17 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You make it sound as if Kirchner was despatched to derby by a presidential task force.  
 

Have you had business dealings with Russians, or Chinese? They can be quite challenging - Indonesians too. Some Middle Eastern gents can be a handful, as many in the horse racing world would tell you. Ironically Quantuma seemed to think the most tricky they dealt with was someone closer to home who sells lots of tracksuits 

Yes, I've had many business dealings with Russians, and a couple with Chinese business people and one job with the Chinese Government, and I found each extremely fair and honest, while driving hard bargains. The Americans lied, often to cover their own asses, didn't stick to agreements and were worse than Arab Clients  for paying their bills. Of course, that's just my experience, but it's coloured my views of Americans in business - but  I've heard similar from others. It seems to be their culture, but I don't have to like or tolerate it.

[kevinhectoring]

26 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Yes, I've had many business dealings with Russians, and a couple with Chinese business people and one job with the Chinese Government, and I found each extremely fair and honest, while driving hard bargains. The Americans lied, often to cover their own asses, didn't stick to agreements and were worse than Arab Clients  for paying their bills. Of course, that's just my experience, but it's coloured my views of Americans in business - but  I've heard similar from others. It seems to be their culture, but I don't have to like or tolerate it.

Fair enough. Surprising to me tho and not reflective of the county corruption indices that are produced . Btw I guess Appleby was the best the US sent to Quantuma 

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

Fair enough. Surprising to me tho and not reflective of the county corruption indices that are produced . Btw I guess Appleby was the best the US sent to Quantuma 

They just focus on public sector corruption though, not how likely someone from a particular country is to renege on an agreement, which is more what I'm talking about.

[GB SPORTS]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

You make it sound as if Kirchner was despatched to derby by a presidential task force.  
 

Have you had business dealings with Russians, or Chinese? They can be quite challenging - Indonesians too. Some Middle Eastern gents can be a handful, as many in the horse racing world would tell you. Ironically Quantuma seemed to think the most tricky they dealt with was someone closer to home who sells lots of tracksuits 

As someone who's business deals with a variety of sectors and i can honestly say that Fraser Group are one the ones who pay failrly promptly providing you have your ducks in a row, i seem to remember that someone who worked in corporate finance for them contributes to this thread and concurred with me.

Most of my private work is with NHS trusts,Councils and government departments and i have to say they are the biggest nightmares as no one takes resposibility for decisions to pay supplying businesses, to counter this i charge more for near identical work.

The only time haven't is during the pandemic when i didn't want to milk it at a time of crisis.

Also with the work i do, the public bodies have the skills to do the work, for some reason they all want to manage it not get their hands dirty.

[jimtastic56]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

Yes, I've had many business dealings with Russians, and a couple with Chinese business people and one job with the Chinese Government, and I found each extremely fair and honest, while driving hard bargains. The Americans lied, often to cover their own asses, didn't stick to agreements and were worse than Arab Clients  for paying their bills. Of course, that's just my experience, but it's coloured my views of Americans in business - but  I've heard similar from others. It seems to be their culture, but I don't have to like or tolerate it.

Think we have to be a little bit careful “What we wish for”. Florists have banged their prices up and have a 12,000 waiting list for season tickets . Now that would upset a few on here . 

[Tamworthram]

4 hours ago, Crewton said:

Yes, I've had many business dealings with Russians, and a couple with Chinese business people and one job with the Chinese Government, and I found each extremely fair and honest, while driving hard bargains. The Americans lied, often to cover their own asses, didn't stick to agreements and were worse than Arab Clients  for paying their bills. Of course, that's just my experience, but it's coloured my views of Americans in business - but  I've heard similar from others. It seems to be their culture, but I don't have to like or tolerate it.

I think we have to be careful of generalisation. Our American owners prior to Mel Morris were OK weren't they?

[Crewton]

15 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I think we have to be careful of generalisation. Our American owners prior to Mel Morris were OK weren't they?

Yes, I said as much, but they wouldn't satisfy some of the posters because they didn't invest enough in the team.