So who would we have then?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

No one mentioned a statue. Are you so lacking in any sort of argument that you have to resort to ridiculous exaggerations of any defence of someone who steered us through a rough time in our history whilst improving year on year. 

Interesting that at a relatively big club in league 2 he’s been allowed the time he’s been given. Almost as if the chairman there thinks he’s doing a good job - 4 years with anyone in this day and age is nothing to be sniffed at. Managers do not get time. 

 

It does make me smile the double standards you're touting by advocating that Clough should have got another 2 years on top of his previous 4 years of incremental improvement but on the other hand Warne should be shown the door at the end of this season.

[IlsonDerby]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It does make me smile the double standards you're touting by advocating that Clough should have got another 2 years on top of his previous 4 years of incremental improvement but on the other hand Warne should be shown the door at the end of this season.

It would make anyone smile if it was in fact a double standard. 
 

Watching a manager reduce a squad of overpaid crap to a squad of young hungry players on a bottom 6 budget creep up the league year by year is actually - as I’m sure you’re aware - not the same as what is currently being complained about. Clough outperformed his budget. That’s what good management is. If Warne turns this season into a promotion winning season then he’ll have hit par with his the budget which is the sign of a robust manager who has done his job. Any less would be an underperformance. 

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, IlsonDerby said:

Watching a manager reduce a squad of overpaid crap to a squad of young hungry players on a bottom 6 budget creep up the league year by year is actually - as I’m sure you’re aware - not the same as what is currently being complained about. Clough outperformed his budget. That’s what good management is. If Warne turns this season into a promotion winning season then he’ll have hit par with his the budget which is the sign of a robust manager who has done his job. Any less would be an underperformance. 

If that was good management why did Clough then get removed from his job?

Clearly someone else thought otherwise at the club whose opinions mattered more than yours. 

[IlsonDerby]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

If that was good management why did Clough then get removed from his job?

Clearly someone else thought otherwise at the club whose opinions mattered more than yours. 

The owners panicked at falling crowd sizes. I think the fact it came as such a surprise when it happened speaks volumes. 
 

oh I see we’ve tried to be dismissive about my opinion. Excellent debate in good faith yet again. Brilliant stuff. 
 

In an effort to still answer the tedious point in good faith in the hope you’re able to do the same moving forward: Someone whose opinion mattered more than mine also sacked Mac, sacked Clement, sacked Mac, hired Lampard, bought in Rooney undermining Cocu etc so I don’t put too much value on people having opinions that matter more than me. 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

The owners panicked at falling crowd sizes. I think the fact it came as such a surprise when it happened speaks volumes. 
 

oh I see we’ve tried to be dismissive about my opinion. Excellent debate in good faith yet again. Brilliant stuff. 
 

In an effort to still answer the tedious point in good faith in the hope you’re able to do the same moving forward: Someone whose opinion mattered more than mine also sacked Mac, sacked Clement, sacked Mac, hired Lampard, bought in Rooney undermining Cocu etc so I don’t put too much value on people having opinions that matter more than me. 

It's obvious by your comments to other posters on this thread and another that you're triggered by any slight accusation that Clough didn't do an amazing job at Derby and it's also obvious that despite Clough being removed from his job many, many years ago this is still an emotive topic for you.

He did a good job of stabilising the club I've always said that, whether he was the person to take the club forward history says no.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, NottsRam77 said:

im sure we lost it having battered them for  the first 20-30 mins we absolutely murdered them and played some gorgeous football 

So i Googled it to be sure .. we lost 1-0 6th aug 2022

the lincoln away one was the nail in the coffin for me … should he have had more time… dont know

i think cocu ball had destroyed my enthusiasm for tempo less football. 

The game I am referring to wasn’t Charlton, it was either Morecambe or Fleetwood…

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

The long term isn't the manager it's the way you want to play the game and recruit players accordingly. The manager should slot into that system.

Exactly this and should include the academy within the centre of the plans. 
 

Yesterday the U18s were playing their biggest game of the season at home to Man City. And guess what, not a sign of PW coming to watch for just 2 minutes. 

[IlsonDerby]

6 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It's obvious by your comments to other posters on this thread and another that you're triggered by any slight accusation that Clough didn't do an amazing job at Derby and it's also obvious that despite Clough being removed from his job many, many years ago this is still an emotive topic for you.

He did a good job of stabilising the club I've always said that, whether he was the person to take the club forward history says no.

The job he did was objectively strong. There shouldn’t be any debate on that. He is the last manager to leave the team in a better place than he found us. 
 

The football he served up at times was vile.
 

My gripe is the failure to recognise the holistic picture when fans grade his time here - which to some degree I understand because we see what is on the pitch. We don’t see the clubs balance sheet when we’re at the stadium. Which is why it needs saying on here.
 

My other gripe was a failure to acknowledge that at times we played scintillating stuff under Clough. we’d battered teams twice in that September (Yeovil and Millwall away) already. Including the famous 20 odd pass goal for Bryson. The Burnley game was probably the loss that did it for us in terms of Clough remaining in charge and it was just bad timing that he was sacked after the forest match. 
 

So yeah quite defensive because we’d have been in league one about 15 years earlier than this without him in my opinion 

[IlsonDerby]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

It's obvious by your comments to other posters on this thread and another that you're triggered by any slight accusation that Clough didn't do an amazing job at Derby and it's also obvious that despite Clough being removed from his job many, many years ago this is still an emotive topic for you.

He did a good job of stabilising the club I've always said that, whether he was the person to take the club forward history says no.

This  - has history really said he wasn’t the right person? 9 years on and I’d snap your hand off for his final seasons finishing position and the squad he’d built… 

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

The long term isn't the manager it's the way you want to play the game and recruit players accordingly. The manager should slot into that system.

Bang on, that's a major failing of Mel Morris is that he lurched from style to style and didn't just pick one and recruit to fit that mould. 

[Ghost of Clough]

I don't think we could afford any current Championship or League 1 manager.

• Lee Carsley (England U21) would probably be holding out for the main England job at this point. Even if he isn't chosen for that job, I doubt he would drop down to L1 level.
• Luke Williams (Notts County) for the long term project. Someone I could see taking us all the way to the PL.
• Gary Bowyer (unemployed, previously at Dundee) to build solid foundations and rebuild the link between the first team and academy
• Paul Cook (Chesterfield). A difference in opinion led to him being sacked at Ipswich, but he's done well everywhere else.
• Aaron Danks (Middlesbrough assistant manager) has been assistant for Kompany at Anderlecht, Dean Smith at Villa and now Carrick at Boro. Has also been involved with the England setup, having assisted Paul Simpson as they won the U20 World Cup in 2020, and then the  U21s in 20/21. The riskiest option I've listed, but has a good contact list and I think is worth taking a risk on. Another I could see growing with the club as taking us to the PL.

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If that was good management why did Clough then get removed from his job?

Clearly someone else thought otherwise at the club whose opinions mattered more than yours. 

I recall Rush later stating he didn't realise what good job Clough had actually done at the club, indicating himself that he thought it was a mistake to sack him.

[WystonRam]

4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

This  - has history really said he wasn’t the right person? 9 years on and I’d snap your hand off for his final seasons finishing position and the squad he’d built… 

Almost impossible to compare then to the post apocalyptic phase we are now in. It may take another two years to get us into a position to challenge consistently well to go up. 

[IlsonDerby]

Just now, WystonRam said:

Almost impossible to compare then to the post apocalyptic phase we are now in. It may take another two years to get us into a position to challenge consistently well to go up. 

If I’m 2 years we’re only just competitively challenging to go up then we’re in big trouble financially 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, WystonRam said:

Almost impossible to compare then to the post apocalyptic phase we are now in. It may take another two years to get us into a position to challenge consistently well to go up. 

You'd think and at least hope that given the size of our revenue generation compared to the rest of the division we should be able to compete quicker than that. 

[Jubbs]

I don't understand this whole "we need an experienced manager" isn't that the route we went down last year? Look how that's worked out. You don't need experience.

Kieran McKenna (first senior managerial role)
Steven Schumacher (first managerial role)
Leam Richardson (2nd job, first was 7 years before his second and was only 30 games)
Neil Critchley (first senior managerial role)

Then look at John Mousinho, he was literally playing in League 1 last season then became a manager at another club and 36 games into his role they've only lost 4 games.  

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

I don't understand this whole "we need an experienced manager" isn't that the route we went down last year? Look how that's worked out. You don't need experience.

Kieran McKenna (first senior managerial role)
Steven Schumacher (first managerial role)
Leam Richardson (2nd job, first was 7 years before his second and was only 30 games)
Neil Critchley (first senior managerial role)

Then look at John Mousinho, he was literally playing in League 1 last season then became a manager at another club and 36 games into his role they've only lost 4 games.  

So what is the 'common thread' from those managers?

[MK-Ram]

Could Ryan Mason be worth a shout? 

Clearly rated at Spurs and whilst his record isn't the prettiest in his spells, he has done fairly well given the position Spurs have been in both times

[Jimbo Ram]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

I don't understand this whole "we need an experienced manager" isn't that the route we went down last year? Look how that's worked out. You don't need experience.

Kieran McKenna (first senior managerial role)
Steven Schumacher (first managerial role)
Leam Richardson (2nd job, first was 7 years before his second and was only 30 games)
Neil Critchley (first senior managerial role)

Then look at John Mousinho, he was literally playing in League 1 last season then became a manager at another club and 36 games into his role they've only lost 4 games.  

Liam Rosenior at Hull too 😁

[nottingram]

21 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Liam Rosenior at Hull too 😁

Especially considering it is his first managerial job