Explain this to me

[May Contain Nuts]

Collins offered plenty against Burton because we got the first goal and he could take advantage of some space while they tried to get back into the game.

He won't offer anything in tight games where we let the opposition score first and just hammer it toward a packed box.

The opposition scoring first is a death knell to our chances under Warne because he doesn't. have a f****** clue how to alter his tactics to get us back in a game,.so Collins will continue to be s***.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Just now, SK47 said:

We shouldn't have signed Waggy or Washington imo. 1 of them maybe, but we needed a first choice striker. A statement. As much as they might run through walls for us, it's not that we need. We need a point to our attack. 

Right, but we did sign them. I appreciate everyone is feeling fed up so perhaps doesn’t actually want to see solutions to the problems, that’s fair enough. I’ve put one forward as I thought the thread might be for more of a discussion, maybe I should just leave people to gnash teeth instead 🤷🏻‍♂️

In my view Washington and Waghorn can and will score goals at this level, as will Collins, they’re not the same class of player that McGoldrick was/is, but that’s what we’ve got so Warne needs to find a way to get them the ball in goalscoring positions. In a formation that makes us more solid, and uses the ball. 4-3-3/4-4-2

[alram]

but so many of us could see it. SK 47 is right, why sign both waghorn and washignton? loads of people were saying it at the time

 

if fans can see it coming from a mile off why cant anybody from the club

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Collins offered plenty against Burton because we got the first goal and he could take advantage of some space while they tried to get back into the game.

He won't offer anything in tight games where we let the opposition score first and just hammer it toward a packed box.

The opposition scoring first is a death knell to our chances under Warne because he doesn't. have a f****** clue how to alter his tactics to get us back in a game,.so Collins will continue to be s***.

Maybe Collins had a good game but overall just is a bit s***? 

[SK47]

2 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Right, but we did sign them. I appreciate everyone is feeling fed up so perhaps doesn’t actually want to see solutions to the problems, that’s fair enough. I’ve put one forward as I thought the thread might be for more of a discussion, maybe I should just leave people to gnash teeth instead 🤷🏻‍♂️

In my view Washington and Waghorn can and will score goals at this level, as will Collins, they’re not the same class of player that McGoldrick was/is, but that’s what we’ve got so Warne needs to find a way to get them the ball in goalscoring positions. In a formation that makes us more solid, and uses the ball. 4-3-3/4-4-2

This is the problem. We did OK against Burton but it was more of them being rubbish rather than us being exceptional. We don't seem to be fluid or have a style other than the rigid system we play atm

[Caerphilly Ram]

4 minutes ago, alram said:

but so many of us could see it. SK 47 is right, why sign both waghorn and washignton? loads of people were saying it at the time

 

if fans can see it coming from a mile off why cant anybody from the club

I don’t get how anyone has watched that tonight and decided Washington and Waghorn are the problem?!
It’s the midfield and the tactics….or the execution of them, there’s no presence or control in the middle of the park, we’re not retaining the ball, we didn’t create much from open play. That doesn’t sit at Washington and Waghorn’s door, it’s down to Warne for the tactics and Hourihane/Smith/Bird/NML/Wilson/Elder/Nelson/Bradley etc for the lack of composure, creativity and control.

[May Contain Nuts]

5 minutes ago, SK47 said:

This is the problem. We did OK against Burton but it was more of them being rubbish rather than us being exceptional. We don't seem to be fluid or have a style other than the rigid system we play atm

A rigid system we play and then force players into with no regard for adapting it to make the most of their individual abilities or even whether they're capable of performing the basic functions of the role.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[alram]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t get how anyone has watched that tonight and decided Washington and Waghorn are the problem?!
It’s the midfield and the tactics….or the execution of them, there’s no presence or control in the middle of the park, we’re not retaining the ball, we didn’t create much from open play. That doesn’t sit at Washington and Waghorn’s door, it’s down to Warne for the tactics and Hourihane/Smith/Bird/NML/Wilson/Elder/Nelson/Bradley etc for the lack of composure, creativity and control.

its the overall direction

 

why sign 2 strikers over 31 when by the own managers account he wanted younger players? 

 

it just sums up the aimless nature of our recruitment which has been absolute tripe this summer

 

we have absolutely no athletism and i would like to see one team with none of that that is successful because you wont find one at this level when you are getting out run every week

[DCFC Kicks]

12 minutes ago, SK47 said:

Exactly. Warne can say "I don't really have to sell the club to players.. it sells itself..  but if I don't think the player will be my mate, I don't want to sign him" 

He used to make tongue in cheek comments about DM after he scored, along the lines of, "Yeah he did well but I don't like to tell him that" - why not? Jokes or not, I just feel like Warne doesn't like the individually brilliant players and just likes 11 mercenaries. 

I think the size of the club is a negative if anything currently, certainly not selling point. Being booed by 25,000+ every other week, playing that style can't be fun for any player. 

Honestly, Didzys ability was probably above Warnes understanding, he just went with it. I don't think he's ever managed a player remotely similar to Didzy. Warne not telling him how good he was might be a way of trying to keep some authority and hide the fact he was carrying everyone, including Warne, a lot last season.

[DCFC Kicks]

20 minutes ago, SK47 said:

We shouldn't of signed Waggy or Washington imo. 1 of them maybe, but we needed a first choice striker. A statement. As much as they might run through walls for us, it's not that we need. We need a point to our attack. 

I'm not sure what any striker could do in the game today. The majority of the game involved scrappy head tennis around the centre circle, and then deep or blocked crosses from almost exclusively the RWB position. What would a new 1st choice striker be able to do? We could sign someone who can hold the ball up, but the only player who'd be near them would be NML as we're playing no other attackers.

[Caerphilly Ram]

5 minutes ago, alram said:

its the overall direction

 

why sign 2 strikers over 31 when by the own managers account he wanted younger players? 

 

it just sums up the aimless nature of our recruitment which has been absolute tripe this summer

 

we have absolutely no athletism and i would like to see one team with none of that that is successful because you wont find one at this level when you are getting out run every week

There was an aim to the recruitment, it  just looks like it’s been unsuccessful. I hold my hands up from my earlier defences of the likes of Bradley and Nelson in response to some of your posts, looks like you were right and I was wrong, I’m adult enough to own that. 

But objectively speaking on the recruitment I can see what the intention was, he’s signed Washington because he knows he’ll do the tireless running in the front 2 of his 3-5-2 system. He signed Ward because he’s a proven rwb at this level, and signed Wilson because he was an exciting young rwb in the league below the season before last. He signed Elder, Bradley and Nelson as they’ve been playing in the championship for a few years, not arguing about if they should have been or not, just pointing out that there was a plan to it all….it just looks like it’s possibly the wrong plan. 
My point is always to try and have a more solution focused approach to my thinking, those players have been signed there’s nothing to be done about that now, so Warne has to find a way to get the best out of what he has, people will point that he didn’t do it last season, which overall he didn’t, but he did at times (adapting a makeshift back 4) and he did it at Rotherham. It’s either that or the next solution becomes a change of manager and I don’t know that that’s the right thing yet….in my limited opinion. 

[SK47]

1 minute ago, DCFC Kicks said:

I'm not sure what any striker could do in the game today. The majority of the game involved scrappy head tennis around the centre circle, and then deep or blocked crosses from almost exclusively the RWB position. What would a new 1st choice striker be able to do? We could sign someone who can hold the ball up, but the only player who'd be near them would be NML as we're playing no other attackers.

Exactly..  but the problem is, Warne has gone all out to try and force us to play the system he likes, unfortunately for him, we aren't Rotherham and it just doesn't cut it. We should of signed a proven target man/striker and built around that. Right now, we are literally relying on out RWB to provide our only service, it gets predictable, even in league 1.

[Tyler Durden]

57 minutes ago, SK47 said:

How on earth did we sign the likes of Mcgoldrick last year for free and on minimal wages, yet this season, even with a budget, we avoided signing a striker capable of achieving anything close to what DM produced?

Collins IS NOT a first choice striker. I don't care how many times he crops up with a goal, he offers northing else to the team which leads to us being 1 dimensional. Ball out to the right, cross, clear. Ball out to the right, cross, clear. What happened to the silky football we used to play? 

Really hope drastic changes are made because this isn't it, and I'm a Warne fan

 

If you seriously think there are a bountiful supply of quality players for free like McGoldrick sitting around by the phone waiting for PW to call them then you need to give a head a wobble.

McGoldrick had a really poor couple of seasons goal scoring wise before he joined us. 

We got really lucky with him.

We have two farthings to rub together but you expect PW and that guy from Oxford to magic a proven goalscorer for free on sensible wages out of their behinds. 

[Bris Vegas]

38 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Thats a really naive comment.

Am sure Clowes knows the value of recruiting team members with a proven track record of success which in his experience means they are more likely to succeed in his business.

Which is probably why he's been a far more successful businessman than you or I or 99% of the posters on this forum. 

Football has swallowed up many successful businessmen. I’m sure DC will be a big success but just because something has worked elsewhere doesn’t mean it will work here.

[DCFC Kicks]

14 minutes ago, SK47 said:

Exactly..  but the problem is, Warne has gone all out to try and force us to play the system he likes, unfortunately for him, we aren't Rotherham and it just doesn't cut it. We should of signed a proven target man/striker and built around that. Right now, we are literally relying on out RWB to provide our only service, it gets predictable, even in league 1.

You could see Oxford knew exactly what we were going to do from the 1st minute. They doubled up on our RWB and put 2 or 3 players between the cross and the goal to block it. After that our entire game plan disappeared, that's all they had to do.

[Chris_Martin]

35 minutes ago, DCFC Kicks said:

Honestly, Didzys ability was probably above Warnes understanding, he just went with it. I don't think he's ever managed a player remotely similar to Didzy. Warne not telling him how good he was might be a way of trying to keep some authority and hide the fact he was carrying everyone, including Warne, a lot last season.

[SK47]

23 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

If you seriously think there are a bountiful supply of quality players for free like McGoldrick sitting around by the phone waiting for PW to call them then you need to give a head a wobble.

McGoldrick had a really poor couple of seasons goal scoring wise before he joined us. 

We got really lucky with him.

We have two farthings to rub together but you expect PW and that guy from Oxford to magic a proven goalscorer for free on sensible wages out of their behinds. 

It wasn't just mcgoldrick though.. it was Hourihane, NML, Smith, Barks, all players that had genuine class.. I just don't understand how we managed to get them last year on no budget.. yet these types of players have somehow disappeared even though now we have money on the table..  I think it's more down to the top players not being convinced by Wayne's "be my buddy and go home" mentality. Even our loans last year were better!

Edited August 15, 2023 by SK47

[plymouthram]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

Maybe it's because as a successful businessman Clowes has seen the value in recruiting people with a track record of success and saw that to be no different for a football manager or someone managing his own business.

Weird concept huh 

Judging by your comments and replies to others on this forum, you are very pro- Warne. Yes Warne got 3 promotions with the same team, but got found out in the Championship with 2 relegations. We are all followers of our club and hope to have success, we need to have a coach/manager that can make changes when needed. If Clowes thinks he's got the right man to steer the ship, then lets hope he can alter the course we are on. 3 defeats at home and a win against a small club like Burton, does have fans worrying if David Clowes made the right choice.

Yes, we are probably stuck with the current manager and his coaches with their 4 year contract. Lets hope he can make changes with tactics, formations and signings to improve the current plight. If this does'nt happen, then expect forum members to have their moans.

[alram]

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

There was an aim to the recruitment, it  just looks like it’s been unsuccessful. I hold my hands up from my earlier defences of the likes of Bradley and Nelson in response to some of your posts, looks like you were right and I was wrong, I’m adult enough to own that. 

But objectively speaking on the recruitment I can see what the intention was, he’s signed Washington because he knows he’ll do the tireless running in the front 2 of his 3-5-2 system. He signed Ward because he’s a proven rwb at this level, and signed Wilson because he was an exciting young rwb in the league below the season before last. He signed Elder, Bradley and Nelson as they’ve been playing in the championship for a few years, not arguing about if they should have been or not, just pointing out that there was a plan to it all….it just looks like it’s possibly the wrong plan. 
My point is always to try and have a more solution focused approach to my thinking, those players have been signed there’s nothing to be done about that now, so Warne has to find a way to get the best out of what he has, people will point that he didn’t do it last season, which overall he didn’t, but he did at times (adapting a makeshift back 4) and he did it at Rotherham. It’s either that or the next solution becomes a change of manager and I don’t know that that’s the right thing yet….in my limited opinion. 

We may have disagreed on some stuff but we both want the same thing which is Derby doing well 

[brady1993]

7 hours ago, SK47 said:

It wasn't just mcgoldrick though.. it was Hourihane, NML, Smith, Barks, all players that had genuine class.. I just don't understand how we managed to get them last year on no budget.. yet these types of players have somehow disappeared even though now we have money on the table..  I think it's more down to the top players not being convinced by Wayne's "be my buddy and go home" mentality. Even our loans last year were better!

I think it likely comes down to a combination of things.

1) Rosenior having better contacts. A lot of the players we brought in spoke of how well rosenior spoke and a lot had either immediate or tangential connections to him.

2) Passing football. Good players get sold on playing good football. Put simply coming to a side trying to play  good passing football is just going to be more fun for players to be a part of than not.

3) Last year we were a just relegated team coming off the back of a season where we dont get relegated without extremely heavy penalties. This year we were an also ran in the league 1 playoff race. Put simply players will be less confident we can bounce out of the league quickly.

4) Signing momentum. This is a bit more nebulous but if you look at the top windows played out they are interesting parallels. Last year we were able to move quickly to convince players to stay and then a good signing begot another good signing (on paper). This year we've lost key players, signings have taken time and haven't been the kinds of names to entice in other players.