Tired

[sage]

9 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I never really saw the logic of spaffing 25% of a budget on a non league goalie and 3 centre halves who really weren't going to play due to age and injury records.   That may have bit us on the arse in January.  We now have 40 k a month being spent on a goalie and a centre half putting out cones and probably another 60-80 k a month on a bench warmer and a bloke with a horrific injury record over the last couple of years.

We have the funds. We have room in the budget, it's the restrictions that have made it difficult to bring quality in.

 

[Jourdan]

1 hour ago, sage said:

I fear the worst for the rest of this season.

Bird and Chester coming back will help but I can't see a material increase in our stamina for thr rest of the season.

 

So would I if we were outclassed from minute 1 tonight.

The first half reminded me of a Billy Davies performance tonight. It was like going to Preston away in 2007. A very astute game plan being applied very well - defend well, stay organised, capitalise on a mistake or an opening. 

Had we gone 2-0 up, I think we go on to win the game. But we lost our way.

I think we’ll be fine. It’s not like we escaped a 4 or 5 nil hammering. For two thirds of the game, we were very much in it.

The time to worry is if we mishandle the games v Oxford, Bristol Rovers, Exeter and Forest Green. Tonight we were frustrating not concerning. It’s a game we could have won and we were edged out.

 

[Comrade 86]

Definitely leggy. Barks was blowing literally 2 minutes after the halftime break. Hard to blame Warne though, as this is a personnel issue, not a tactical one. That said, have we taken steps to freshen the players up? A few days warm weather training wouldn't have gone amiss, but I think we've missed the window now unless there's another international break soon.

Seems to me that PW is damned either way really as when he rests Didzy, he gets slaughtered for playing Collins. Equally, a single goal loss (due to a fluke and a cheating bar steward) away to a team that's won 16/18 at home hardly warrants some of the hissy fits being thrown on here. We're all disappointed and maybe PW could try something different, but let's not lose all perspective, eh! 

COYR

[alram]

our squad is too reliant on too many old players, i said it in the summer when we were signing so many I never thought we got the balance right.

 

ok I can understand needs must be realistically when the business end of the season came around we would always struggle relying on such old players.
 

7 players involved yesterday were over 30 & compare that to Plymouth who had 3. and those that aren’t old are mostly unproven young players, we have no middle ground at all. I think the makeup of the squad is really poor

Edited March 8, 2023 by alram

[IslandExile]

Second halves against Shrewsbury and Plymouth showed how tired and stretched this squad is getting.

We knew that would be the case at the start of the season given the predicament we were in and how we had to assemble enough players.

That seems to have been forgotten as the excitement grew with the unbeaten run.

OK, so the stress of the playoffs - if we limp over the line - or another year in League 1.

A year ago, we would all have taken that. COYR ?

[duncanjwitham]

2 hours ago, alram said:

our squad is too reliant on too many old players, i said it in the summer when we were signing so many I never thought we got the balance right.

 

ok I can understand needs must be realistically when the business end of the season came around we would always struggle relying on such old players.
 

7 players involved yesterday were over 30 & compare that to Plymouth who had 3. and those that aren’t old are mostly unproven young players, we have no middle ground at all. I think the makeup of the squad is really poor

Those are the markets we're allowed to shop in though.  You don't get many players in their mid-20s on free transfers - clubs tend to either extend their contracts or sell them.  They only get released on frees when they have little-to-no resale value, which is older players.  Loans are the opposite end of the spectrum, they're mostly all going to be youngsters looking for first team experience.  Unless the restrictions are massively relaxed next season the squad will have a very similar make-up.

[NottsRam77]

On 04/03/2023 at 21:58, Jourdan said:

I don’t think the style is the issue. It’s the make up of the squad, the injuries, the restrictions we are under, and the sheer number of games we have played.

We have played 11 cup games this season. That’s almost a quarter of a League One season. It’s bound to take its toll.

We have a group of 13-14 that have been playing game in, game out for 7-8 months. 3-4 of those have been playing exclusively out of position. It’s also bound to take its toll.

The depth and quality of depth hasn’t been there for us to take the burden from the core group.

Imagine if Forsyth and Cashin could have been rotated out for Davies, Chester or Stearman. That hasn’t really been an option for the majority of the season.

If only we could give Wildsmith, Smith, Hourihane, Mendez Laing and McGoldrick a break, you could say. The alternatives are McGee or Loach, Oduroh or Rooney, White or Thompson, Springett, and of course Collins - all of whom are either too inferior or too inexperienced to rely on.

If we finish in the play-offs, we’ll have done very well all things considered.

Agree completely 

[RoyMac5]

On 05/03/2023 at 08:58, angieram said:

Managing games isn't about keeping the same shape and substituting like for like, though, is it? 

It's about adding an extra defender or midfielder and playing possession football. Slowing the game down when in front, rather than continuing to go full throttle with every attack and risk losing the ball quickly and cheaply.

Yesterday Shrewsbury's change of formation was obvious but we didn't react to it at all. 

We haven't enough squad depth. The starting 11 consist of players playing out of position! You think we've enough quality to change things around, how? The extra defender, Davies? Lots on here were saying his legs had gone last time he came on! Midfielder? Who, not Thompson, he's not a midfield enforcer nor much of owt else. Another goal-scorer? Who?

We're not getting thrashed week in week out, we're mostly not taking enough chances and making more mistakes that are being capitalised on.

Squad depth is the problem, not tactics.

Edited March 8, 2023 by RoyMac5

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Squad depth is the problem, not tactics.

But if you haven't got the squad depth to play a high intensity pressing game for 90 minutes every match, then maybe don't play that way? It's just setting us up to fail, and then shrugging like it's not our fault when we do fail.

[RoyMac5]

27 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

But if you haven't got the squad depth to play a high intensity pressing game for 90 minutes every match, then maybe don't play that way? It's just setting us up to fail, and then shrugging like it's not our fault when we do fail.

Whichever way Warne sets us up we don't have the squad depth to do much altering do we?!

Of course it's our fault when we fail, but some fans seem unable to recognise the squad limitations, and how well we've done so far. 

[duncanjwitham]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Whichever way Warne sets us up we don't have the squad depth to do much altering do we?!

Of course it's our fault when we fail, but some fans seem unable to recognise the squad limitations, and how well we've done so far. 

I'm not so much talking about altering things now, as saying we shouldn't have gone down this route in the first place.  Given we have a small squad of relatively unfit players, we were never going to be able to sustain this intensity all season.  So if anything, I'd say it's the management that are unable to recognise the squad limitations.

But even now, there's no point going all out for 45 minutes, getting knackered and then losing the game second half.  We should be paying much more attention to keeping the ball and making the other team run, less time pressing and more time getting set in defensive shape etc.  We can't sustain Warne's style for 90 minutes with the squad we have, and we can't change the squad, so we should be changing the style.  Keeping the same style, failing with it, then saying we don't have the players to play it, doesn't help anyone win football games.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

...We can't sustain Warne's style for 90 minutes with the squad we have, and we can't change the squad, so we should be changing the style.  Keeping the same style, failing with it, then saying we don't have the players to play it, doesn't help anyone win football games.

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/03/post-match-verdict-paul-warne-vs-plymouth-argyle-a-march-2023

"...I find it very difficult to come out and speak to you about it because I can understand if teams are better than us - but that's not how it felt, it felt like we got out-fought and that's a difficult pill for me to swallow...

We've come here to be successful. We've come here to win games and win promotions and I say promotions but that's what we've come here to do. If people don't believe in what I'm saying and they disagree then they are entitled to say it to me. I've asked them to and nobody has disagreed with what I said. I'm not the enemy, I'm trying to help them win games and I think the simple things have lost it for us tonight...

We've put ourselves in a really good position. There's been some really good performances from the lads on regular basis but tonight we weren't good enough and I think I'm entitled to say that. That isn't the Derby County that I want to watch and I'm disappointed with myself because I made changes that had no effect."

[duncanjwitham]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2023/03/post-match-verdict-paul-warne-vs-plymouth-argyle-a-march-2023

"...I find it very difficult to come out and speak to you about it because I can understand if teams are better than us - but that's not how it felt, it felt like we got out-fought and that's a difficult pill for me to swallow...

We've come here to be successful. We've come here to win games and win promotions and I say promotions but that's what we've come here to do. If people don't believe in what I'm saying and they disagree then they are entitled to say it to me. I've asked them to and nobody has disagreed with what I said. I'm not the enemy, I'm trying to help them win games and I think the simple things have lost it for us tonight...

We've put ourselves in a really good position. There's been some really good performances from the lads on regular basis but tonight we weren't good enough and I think I'm entitled to say that. That isn't the Derby County that I want to watch and I'm disappointed with myself because I made changes that had no effect."

I'm not totally sure what the relevance of that is? 

As far as I can see, Warne is just saying the players didn't run around enough, because that's the only thing he ever means when he says we weren't good enough or were out-fought.  But that's just burying his head in the sand about the current state of the squad.  "Have you tried not being knackered?" is not a sensible approach to managing player fitness...

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

But if you haven't got the squad depth to play a high intensity pressing game for 90 minutes every match, then maybe don't play that way? It's just setting us up to fail, and then shrugging like it's not our fault when we do fail.

 

tbf it's quite difficult to simply 'not play that way' when it's ingrained into a personal ethos & managerial style that's brought you all your successes so far. I don't think you're going to get many League One (or even Championship) managers capable of having multiple distinct ways of playing.

We knew what we were getting, but I think that's been lost sight of and expectations have been set too high. Somewhere along the way (maybe the unbeaten run) his status has been elevated and the scope of his managerial horizons widened beyond where they may be in reality.

There's evidence from last season that even with a younger squad Warne's approach can burn teams out around this point in the season. There's evidence that his answer was to repeat the same simple messages about working hard, gassing out etc rather than having a backup plan or an astute tactical vision. There's evidence of him feeling the pressure and coming up blank with ideas as to exactly where something is going wrong. Again, podcast.

...but there's also evidence of it turning out well in the end. Whether we can take the hit and come out the other side still in the playoffs remains to be seen. We don't have a 9 point lead as a cushion though, we need this poor run to end ASAP. Given our limitations as a squad, this may require more from Warne than just hard work.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[TomTom92]

Every manager has their philosophy, you wouldn’t expect Guardiola to start playing hoof ball if he took on Wycombe. 
 
Warne’s style is high intensity hussle and bussle. Unfortunately we’re looking leggy at the moment and that’s on Warne to try and figure out how to combat this. For me it’s either start some of the squad fillers for fresh legs or change formation. But either way Warne will expect them to run around.

Edited March 8, 2023 by TomTom92

[Alty_Ram]

He's generally not been at all critical of players in any defeats until very recently. One of the things that has been great about the squad and manager this year is how tight they've been as a group. Hopefully nobody sulks after getting called out on workrate.

[Mr Tibbs]

In the last two I don't think we've been a million miles away from 6 points, despite the evident tired legs. 

Four goals from four poor/unfortunate circumstances. Fozzy playing out at the wrong time, the Rooney shove, a Barks terrible corner and then a ridiculous penalty. I think we've been our own worst enemy this week - if we can avoid that there's a realistic chance we can carry on playing the same way. We're not getting outplayed, just punished. 

[May Contain Nuts]

It's dawned on me that we haven't got the League One Guardiola, we've got the League One Bielsa

[Oldben]

9 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

We haven't enough squad depth. The starting 11 consist of players playing out of position! You think we've enough quality to change things around, how? The extra defender, Davies? Lots on here were saying his legs had gone last time he came on! Midfielder? Who, not Thompson, he's not a midfield enforcer nor much of owt else. Another goal-scorer? Who?

We're not getting thrashed week in week out, we're mostly not taking enough chances and making more mistakes that are being capitalised on.

Squad depth is the problem, not tactics.

The issue for next season is that it will be much of the same due to transfer restrictions.

The club can't give pw the signings that he really wants to make, we will lack squad depth.

Old free agent players run out of stamina, young loan players take time to gel.

Next season the current teams in the relegation zone of the championship pose a threat, especially as they will not have transfer restrictions.

Then the teams currently in League one, and even they are showing us up for the team we are, too often.

In my opinion in the season after next we will have to go and win the league, our new owner deserves that having spent a fortune bailing us out of debt and near bankruptcy.

But in that season we will still be restricted to how much we can spend to rebuild the team, and will competition from a lot of other teams to get the players we will need for promotion push.

I think at present we are about 6 players short of where I'd like to see the team.