Problems with VAR starting to show?

[TuffLuff]

*Cough cough cough* ?

[TuffLuff]

*cough cough…oh?*

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

*cough cough…oh?*

One of the things VAR should be set up to show - is the ball in or out. But they'd rather argue about a gnats hair of offside or a debateable penno! ?

Edited December 1, 2022 by RoyMac5

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, TuffLuff said:

*cough cough…oh?*

It looked like a slither of the ball hadn't fully crossed the line to me. 

[kevinhectoring]

On 29/11/2022 at 10:31, RoyMac5 said:

How does the tech decide exactly when the ball has left the players boot, if we are talking centimetres?

So they apparently freeze the frame at that moment. I’d assume they have a whizzy piece of software that takes the different angles and decides when the ball leaves the foot. Forget centimetres, it will be milliseconds. Tough competition for the lino who has the sun in his eyes, macular degeneration,  a player between him and the ball and who hasn’t managed to keep up with play. 

[RoyMac5]

8 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

So they apparently freeze the frame at that moment. I’d assume they have a whizzy piece of software that takes the different angles and decides when the ball leaves the foot. Forget centimetres, it will be milliseconds. Tough competition for the lino who has the sun in his eyes, macular degeneration,  a player between him and the ball and who hasn’t managed to keep up with play. 

So why does it take so long to make a decision when the ref makes it immediately! ?

[kevinhectoring]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So why does it take so long to make a decision when the ref makes it immediately! ?

Same reason they need to wait for ball tracking in cricket. It take a while for the software to transmogrify the video feeds and do the trigonometry, draw all those irritating lines. 

[Loughborough Ram]

Until there is a complete emphasis change in VAR there will be no improvement.

It is supposed to help improve the game but at the moment it is run by referees for the benefit of referees. They have commandeered this as their domain where they control how it is run and how much information they release or conceal.

It should not be their gift to do that, it should be an open process with others involved, ex players would be a valuable addition as would somebody who understands the limitations and the scope offered by the technology.

Until changes are made we might as well do without it, there is no less controversy in the leagues that have VAR, than those that don't. That should tell you everything you need to know

[1of4]

On 24/11/2021 at 22:10, Andicis said:

The Curtis Davies block...

Some you win some you don't

[Sparkle]

At least it was over the  line in 66 

[FindernRam]

10 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

So they apparently freeze the frame at that moment. I’d assume they have a whizzy piece of software that takes the different angles and decides when the ball leaves the foot. Forget centimetres, it will be milliseconds. Tough competition for the lino who has the sun in his eyes, macular degeneration,  a player between him and the ball and who hasn’t managed to keep up with play. 

There is a ball sensor that apparently is accurate to a millisecond. It was also the one that "proved" Ronaldo didn't make contact for "his" goal. For off sides the software interpolates between frames 1/25 second apart to tell "exactly" who was off side when the ball was kicked.

[Foreveram]

46 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

There is a ball sensor that apparently is accurate to a millisecond. It was also the one that "proved" Ronaldo didn't make contact for "his" goal. For off sides the software interpolates between frames 1/25 second apart to tell "exactly" who was off side when the ball was kicked.

Ah jumpers for goalposts eh.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

There is a ball sensor that apparently is accurate to a millisecond. It was also the one that "proved" Ronaldo didn't make contact for "his" goal. For off sides the software interpolates between frames 1/25 second apart to tell "exactly" who was off side when the ball was kicked.

Not everyone believes in technology. My Dad was initially sceptical of computers and so stubborn that the more useful they became the more he maintained that they could do nothing that couldn’t be done by a moderately intelligent human bean

i did a smart motorway speed awareness course in Mansfield recently which was completely hijacked by a very vocal majority who were intent on explaining to the course leader that - based on their personal experience - it was undeniable that smart motorways are detrimental to traffic flow 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Not everyone believes in technology. My Dad was initially sceptical of computers and so stubborn that the more useful they became the more he maintained that they could do nothing that couldn’t be done by a moderately intelligent human bean

i did a smart motorway speed awareness course in Mansfield recently which was completely hijacked by a very vocal majority who were intent on explaining to the course leader that - based on their personal experience - it was undeniable that smart motorways are detrimental to traffic flow 

Not everyone believes technology is the answer to everything. ? 

[Tamworthram]

13 hours ago, Loughborough Ram said:

Until there is a complete emphasis change in VAR there will be no improvement.

It is supposed to help improve the game but at the moment it is run by referees for the benefit of referees. They have commandeered this as their domain where they control how it is run and how much information they release or conceal.

It should not be their gift to do that, it should be an open process with others involved, ex players would be a valuable addition as would somebody who understands the limitations and the scope offered by the technology.

Until changes are made we might as well do without it, there is no less controversy in the leagues that have VAR, than those that don't. That should tell you everything you need to know

What makes you say ex players would be a valuable addition? Just because they have played the game at high level doesn't necessarily mean they will be good at providing a balanced and impartial view. I know they may react differently in the studio but how often do we see ex defenders tending to side with the defence and ex forwards siding with the forwards?

Surely VAR is designed to help referee's make the right decision (eventually) rather than "improve the game" per se. It is therefore there for the benefit of the official. I can't see anything radically wrong with that.

For me, the biggest issue is with the time it takes to arrive at a decision and I'd quite like to see the same as you see in Rugby where the footage the VAR team/officials are reviewing is shared with the crowd (I assume it is rather than just shared with the viewers at home. I've never been to a Rugby match). Same applies to conversation between the rugby ref and their VAR equivalent. 

I think it's right that the VAR team are made up of officials (after all, they are the ones who should know the rules. I'm not sure leaving interpretation of those rules in the hands of ex players is any safer) and the change in emphasis should just more openness over what they are reviewing and how they have arrived at their decision.

 

[Loughborough Ram]

33 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

What makes you say ex players would be a valuable addition? Just because they have played the game at high level doesn't necessarily mean they will be good at providing a balanced and impartial view. I know they may react differently in the studio but how often do we see ex defenders tending to side with the defence and ex forwards siding with the forwards?

Surely VAR is designed to help referee's make the right decision (eventually) rather than "improve the game" per se. It is therefore there for the benefit of the official. I can't see anything radically wrong with that.

For me, the biggest issue is with the time it takes to arrive at a decision and I'd quite like to see the same as you see in Rugby where the footage the VAR team/officials are reviewing is shared with the crowd (I assume it is rather than just shared with the viewers at home. I've never been to a Rugby match). Same applies to conversation between the rugby ref and their VAR equivalent. 

I think it's right that the VAR team are made up of officials (after all, they are the ones who should know the rules. I'm not sure leaving interpretation of those rules in the hands of ex players is any safer) and the change in emphasis should just more openness over what they are reviewing and how they have arrived at their decision.

 

I'm not advocating referees being removed from the process just that a panel made up of solely referees will never eradicate bad decisions. I think a mixed panel including ex players is the right way to go. Players will have a better insight into the mentality of the transgressors whilst the referees know the laws of the game. One without the other is only half a story.

[FlyBritishMidland]

I’m really not getting all this debate about whether the Japan goal should have stood and the ball doesn’t have to be touching the line, etc.  If it was between the sticks, look at the overhead view, goal.  Job done!!  Everyone’s talking as if that’s a complete surprise as it’s somewhere else on the pitch.

And as for the ITV conspiracy theories - talk about drama out of a crisis.  But that’s modern day journalism.  All you need nowadays to call yourself a journalist is a Twitter account.

[Rammy03]

On 29/11/2022 at 13:42, RadioactiveWaste said:

If duff decisions were the price of the fluid and spontaneous game we all loved, it was a price worth paying.

 

And we still get duff decisions. Only now it's worse because they look at a million replays. You get people sitting behind a screen changing the on field decision. You will never get everything right. It just won't happen, no matter what you do because it's subjective. That's football. VAR is just making the game a complete farce.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Rammy03