Stive Pesley Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, TexasRam said: What’s the alternative to stopping oil? If we stop to,or row morning, what’s the alternative? None of these protesters have the answer (because there isn’t one) complete waste of time There aim is to raise awareness of the government granting new oil drilling licenses, despite having pledged not to. It's a start no? What's the alternative to not breaking our reliance on oil? Either the oil runs out and we're screwed, or the planet heats up and ecosystems collapse and we're screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: There aim is to raise awareness of the government granting new oil drilling licenses, despite having pledged not to. It's a start no? What's the alternative to not breaking our reliance on oil? Either the oil runs out and we're screwed, or the planet heats up and ecosystems collapse and we're screwed Yep we have, but not over night it’s going to take a long time, we will rely on oil for a while yet, and these tactics are not helping sell the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 38 minutes ago, TexasRam said: What’s the alternative to stopping oil? If we stop to,or row morning, what’s the alternative? None of these protesters have the answer (because there isn’t one) complete waste of time Really? It's funny as that's not my recollection of their stance. Have many not campaigned for greater uptake of renewable and cleaner energy sources; Solar Power, Wind Power, Hydropower, Geothermal Energy, Biomass, Biofuels to mention a few and for decades too. And let's not forget your immense knowledge and experience in the field of fracking. I'm sure that the immediate start your forecast won't be delayed much longer...? Edited October 17, 2022 by 86 Hair Islands Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 50 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: As you both bring up this point, are you aware that Just Stop Oil have been protesting on a daily basis outside Downing Street and the Houses Of Parliament for the past month? It's not all just soup throwing in art galleries https://juststopoil.org/2022/10/12/just-stop-oil-supporters-target-downing-street-on-12th-day-of-disruption-in-london/ https://juststopoil.org/2022/10/04/just-stop-oil-supporters-block-parliament-square-on-fourth-day-of-action-to-demand-no-new-oil-and-gas/ Good. Much better than throwing soup around galleries. That would be stupid. I've actually tried to be a better human in some small changes. I do run a bigger diesel vehicle for work though. Which is something I will change when it becomes viable But I do try to make changes. The most recent we've been talking about is the way we eat. I'm not ready to go full veggie. I don't really want to have to stick to something. But substitutes here and there for things that just help the tiniest fraction and cost me nothing. Brought on by all the information I read and watch. I just thought over the last couple of years how to be better human. Seeing David Attenborough explaining the damage we're doing to the planet on a nature program did more to make me stop, think and research what I can do. Milk pours/throwing soup/blocking motorways... I just think they're a********. I think some of them are actually more interested in being on a crusade than caring about the objective. But that's personal opinion. There's better ways. Archied, Highgate, Miggins and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said: As you both bring up this point, are you aware that Just Stop Oil have been protesting on a daily basis outside Downing Street and the Houses Of Parliament for the past month? It's not all just soup throwing in art galleries https://juststopoil.org/2022/10/12/just-stop-oil-supporters-target-downing-street-on-12th-day-of-disruption-in-london/ https://juststopoil.org/2022/10/04/just-stop-oil-supporters-block-parliament-square-on-fourth-day-of-action-to-demand-no-new-oil-and-gas/ That's a much better protest in my opinion. And for people looking on it's much easier to understand where the protest is coming from, Soup in art galleries......is it anti-soup ? Anti-art? Difficult to see any connection with the environmental crisis really. Honestly anything non-violent that will make a positive difference to the level of public support for the cause I would fully agree with. Miggins and Alph 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Highgate said: Soup in art galleries......is it anti-soup ? Anti-art? Difficult to see any connection with the environmental crisis really As I understand it - they threw the soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers, specifically so as to highlight people being more annoyed about a painting of plant life being damaged, rather than the actual damage being done to actual plants by man-made climate change In that respect this thread alone has proved them right? Archied and Miggins 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: As I understand it - they threw the soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers, specifically so as to highlight people being more annoyed about a painting of plant life being damaged, rather than the actual damage being done to actual plants by man-made climate change In that respect this thread alone has proved them right? Well I suppose they are right....a lot of people are more annoyed about the painting than the damage to the planet. But did the protest win anyone over or did it just annoy people ? Of course it's impossible to know really, but my guess is that that particular protest probably has done more harm than good. Alph and Miggins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Highgate said: Well, I mean you clearly did strawman my point. But that's not important really. Ok, so you get us started. Tell me all the pros of my point of view and the cons of your own and then I'll try to follow suit (if I can think of any pros for yours.. ?) Where do you want to start ? The mad rush to net zero in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: There aim is to raise awareness of the government granting new oil drilling licenses, despite having pledged not to. It's a start no? What's the alternative to not breaking our reliance on oil? Either the oil runs out and we're screwed, or the planet heats up and ecosystems collapse and we're screwed At this point oil and gas are the life blood of human society as we know it , it keeps us alive , there is no technology ready yet to just stop oil , the advances in cleaner use of oil in things like cars has been absolutely massive over the last twenty years , I would suggest a mix of these advances and advances in renewables to a point where we can switch over is the goal not this blind panic / profit driven forced switch that when looked with only a small sensible glance is not ready and produce s ecological and societal problems short term and further down the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: As I understand it - they threw the soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers, specifically so as to highlight people being more annoyed about a painting of plant life being damaged, rather than the actual damage being done to actual plants by man-made climate change In that respect this thread alone has proved them right? That only really works if you don’t get annoyed at them vandalising anything rather than just a painting of some flowers ,,, or unless of course you are on ted rogers dusty bin ,,, 321 ,, idiots, Power stops from wind farm the minute it’s too windy or no wind at all , solar is not constant either , we do not have the tech to store this power and offshore is too far away from the areas that need most power , sorry mrs brown your husbands life support went off as it was too windy last night and the just stop oil boys and girls put the kiebosh on our stand in diesel generators Edited October 18, 2022 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: As I understand it - they threw the soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers, specifically so as to highlight people being more annoyed about a painting of plant life being damaged, rather than the actual damage being done to actual plants by man-made climate change In that respect this thread alone has proved them right? I presume you want people to be annoyed about damage to the planet for longer than the 24hrs that people on social media were angry about the soup incident, so perhaps those methods aren't as 'hard-hitting' as you or they think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Highgate said: That's a much better protest in my opinion. And for people looking on it's much easier to understand where the protest is coming from, Soup in art galleries......is it anti-soup ? Anti-art? Difficult to see any connection with the environmental crisis really. Honestly anything non-violent that will make a positive difference to the level of public support for the cause I would fully agree with. I guess the point is that people don't know about the more palatable protests happening outside parliment. Not very newsworthy and no clickbait anger to drive. As a species, I think we are more or less screwed. We are hopeless at working together on any large scale as we are all inherently selfish. Our only hope are some huge technological advances that allow us to live our lives as comfortably as we do now, with no sacrafices necessary. Maybe living in huge futuristic buildings raised above the water, that protect us from a poisonous atmosphere? sheeponacid and Highgate 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Archied said: I would suggest a mix of these advances and advances in renewables to a point where we can switch over is the goal not this blind panic / profit driven forced switch I agree. The problem is that we are governed by egocentric maniacs. A sensible switchover to a better alternative is not an attractive proposition to them. The only change that they will allow to happen if there is a huge amount of money in it for them and their energy lobbyist friends In the meantime their main aim is to keep the general public docile and undemanding of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 13 minutes ago, Crewton said: I presume you want people to be annoyed about damage to the planet for longer than the 24hrs that people on social media were angry about the soup incident, so perhaps those methods aren't as 'hard-hitting' as you or they think? I don't "want" anything. I was merely explaining the purpose of that particular protest, as requested If it makes a few people stop and reflect on their own stupidity at being annoyed about something superficial that the internet pushed at them, rather than the real damage being inflicted on the planet that they can see with their own eyes - then it's job done for the protesters. They aren't bothered by those who refuse to reflect and want to waste their time coming up with reasons why they are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: I don't "want" anything. I was merely explaining the purpose of that particular protest, as requested If it makes a few people stop and reflect on their own stupidity at being annoyed about something superficial that the internet pushed at them, rather than the real damage being inflicted on the planet that they can see with their own eyes - then it's job done for the protesters. They aren't bothered by those who refuse to reflect and want to waste their time coming up with reasons why they are wrong I don't believe that it does though - I've yet to meet anyone who has stated that those protests had that effect on them. People need facts, not stunts. These lot remind me an awful lot of Fathers4Justice in the misguided nature of their campaign methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Archied said: That only really works if you don’t get annoyed at them vandalising anything rather than just a painting of some flowers ,,, or unless of course you are on ted rogers dusty bin ,,, 321 ,, idiots, Power stops from wind farm the minute it’s too windy or no wind at all , solar is not constant either , we do not have the tech to store this power and offshore is too far away from the areas that need most power , sorry mrs brown your husbands life support went off as it was too windy last night and the just stop oil boys and girls put the kiebosh on our stand in diesel generators Which is exactly why you need an approach that blends all renewables. And battery storage is coming on. With any hope, all these electric cars that expend their 'useful battery life', the batteries can then go into homes to act as storage. Problem being, that the government here is looking into making it harder to create new solar farms because they're worried about it negatively impacting farming. Which isn't true, if done properly, the reverse is true. Astounding when we live in a time of low energy security. Edited October 18, 2022 by Animal is a Ram Stive Pesley 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 25 minutes ago, Crewton said: I don't believe that it does though - I've yet to meet anyone who has stated that those protests had that effect on them. People need facts, not stunts. That's your belief - fair enough. Whereas I've had several conversations in real life (shock horror - yes I have one) about the sunflowers incident where they started off from your position, but when I pointed out the intention of the protest to highlight the disconnect between anger over something trivial versus anger over the most important crisis humanity has ever faced, they immediately got it and admitted they hadn't thought about it like that The mistake being continually made is that the stunts have never been about "winning people over" - because who needs winning over to the idea that we shouldn't destroy our own planet? No one right? It's been proven time and again that "stunts" do work. Otherwise people wouldn't bother. You're annoyed and we're talking about it. That's the sole point. Which annoys you even more. And it's still the point Even Father's4Justice stunts ended up with them being invited to speak in parliament and gained a commitment from the government to change the law (even though the duplicitous Tories later reneged on that promise) ariotofmyown and Comrade 86 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 The ends justify the means I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 47 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: That's your belief - fair enough. Whereas I've had several conversations in real life (shock horror - yes I have one) about the sunflowers incident where they started off from your position, but when I pointed out the intention of the protest to highlight the disconnect between anger over something trivial versus anger over the most important crisis humanity has ever faced, they immediately got it and admitted they hadn't thought about it like that The mistake being continually made is that the stunts have never been about "winning people over" - because who needs winning over to the idea that we shouldn't destroy our own planet? No one right? It's been proven time and again that "stunts" do work. Otherwise people wouldn't bother. You're annoyed and we're talking about it. That's the sole point. Which annoys you even more. And it's still the point Even Father's4Justice stunts ended up with them being invited to speak in parliament and gained a commitment from the government to change the law (even though the duplicitous Tories later reneged on that promise) If they believed there was no one to win over they wouldn't do it. Right? You've perfectly demonstrated how the general public isn't getting the point of the stunts. It takes someone who is already a strong supporter of their actions to explain those actions to other people. The message being sent by the activists clearly isn't good enough The sunflower stunt. Two girls wearing 'Just stop oil' t-shirts. How is that related to being more upset about a painting of a plant than the destruction of real plants, as you've previously claimed? One girl has pink hair... I imagine that was hair dye and not her natural colour. Guess what hair dye derives from? Crude oil. Super glued themselves to the wall... crude oil. Those printed polyester t-shirts... crude oil. I could go on. They aren't exactly fighting the cuase they apparently are so strongly in favour of. Yesterday you stated "As I understand it - they threw the soup at Van Gogh's Sunflowers, specifically so as to highlight people being more annoyed about a painting of plant life being damaged, rather than the actual damage being done to actual plants by man-made climate change". So what's actually happened here, is you've interpreted their actions differently to what their message is clearly trying to state? Crewton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: If they believed there was no one to win over they wouldn't do it. Right? Wrong. As I just explained Again - people more interested in getting the fleeting pleasure of pointing out a perceived hypocrisy because "i bet they trod on some grass on the way to the gallery - how can they love plants so much and do that? Idiots!" When the food supply breaks down, you can rest easy knowing that you got one over on a lib because you knew that "wearing a polyester t-shirt means they secretly love oil. Idiots!" Keep going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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