Wiil you be disappointed if we finish outside the top 2???

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

...Does that not strike you as a poor team? If not then what else can this horrendous conversion rate be attributed to which is my original question that still stands. 

Of course we weren't table-topping! But we were good enough to not be relegated. Our away form just highlighted all the squad weaknesses that could be partially overcome by playing at home.

Don't know why you're surprised.

[ramsbottom]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

OK in the away games preceding this still in the same season we lost 6 out of 13 of the away games we played, only winning  twice - against Hull and Stoke. 

So out of 25 away games in total we lost 16 of them or a 64% losing rate or a 20% ppg conversion rate of points realised against possible points - meaning we had to play 5 away games just to get 3 points on the board. 

Does that not strike you as a poor team? If not then what else can this horrendous conversion rate be attributed to which is my original question that still stands. 

I think you can attribute it to loosing a number of players in the January window, especially Jagielka & Shinnie.  Two big characters on & off the pitch. 

We weren't a brilliant side by any measure, but the fact remains that without the points deduction we would've finished 17th.  And as I've said previously I believe that if we had a decent striker, playing the majority of matches we'd have stayed up even with the -21.

[May Contain Nuts]

They won enough points to have stayed up, does it matter where they were won? Granted the away form was shocking, and that needs to change.

The away form I put in part down to some managerial decisions.

Something Rosenior said a couple of weeks back when mentioning the away form (I'm paraphrasing) was that there were times last season where we needed more experience on the pitch.

It struck me as odd, considering we had that experience on the bench in Forsyth & Stearman who hardly got a kick, maybe a Rooney decision he didn't fully agree with?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Of course we weren't table-topping! But we were good enough to not be relegated. Our away form just highlighted all the squad weaknesses that could be partially overcome by playing at home.

Don't know why you're surprised.

 

4 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

I think you can attribute it to loosing a number of players in the January window, especially Jagielka & Shinnie.  Two big characters on & off the pitch. 

We weren't a brilliant side by any measure, but the fact remains that without the points deduction we would've finished 17th.  And as I've said previously I believe that if we had a decent striker, playing the majority of matches we'd have stayed up even with the -21.

Only Peterborough and Barnsley accrued a fewer number of away points last season then we did and were the poorest teams in the division by a country mile. 

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

If the quality of our team was so good then why did we witness the above?

[Old Spalding Ram]

We’ve just signed seven players, Collins, Smith, McGoldrick, Roberts, Mendez-Laing, Hourihane, plus Chester, anyone of which would get into any other team in this league.

We’ve kept Knight, Bird, Cashin, Davies, Thompson, Stretton, hopefully Forsyth and who knows about Bieliks’ future 

We’ve signed two keepers and youngsters Oduroh and Nunn.

According to Rosenior there’s more signings on the way.

 

We’re going to rip this league to pieces, the match day line up will frighten lesser unbelieving mortals……bring in on!

 

Latest update in Lincolnshire…..32 degrees in the shade!?

[Tamworthram]

28 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

OK in the away games preceding this still in the same season we lost 6 out of 13 of the away games we played, only winning  twice - against Hull and Stoke. 

So out of 25 away games in total we lost 16 of them or a 64% losing rate or a 20% ppg conversion rate of points realised against possible points - meaning we had to play 5 away games just to get 3 points on the board. 

Does that not strike you as a poor team? If not then what else can this horrendous conversion rate be attributed to which is my original question that still stands. 

It strikes me as a team that were poor away but reasonable (mid table) at home (only six teams lost fewer home games than us so, using your logic of only making an assessment on limited data does that mean we were a good team?). Overall, I would say we were an average (or just below average) championship team.

[ramsbottom]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

 

Only Peterborough and Barnsley accrued a fewer number of away points last season then we did and were the poorest teams in the division by a country mile. 

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

If the quality of our team was so good then why did we witness the above?

Jesus wept!!!  Does it matter how we accrued our points total??  The inarguable fact is that we gained enough points to finish outside the divisions relegation zone if we hadn't been docked 21 points due to bad business practices.  There's nothing in the rules that state that a certain number of those points have to be gained in away fixtures, so why does it matter that a majority of them were won at home???

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

We didn't - the 21 point deduction was a fact, an irrefutable one. Add that back, we don't get relegated. Why are you maintaining that there were other factors involved?

You can argue that we should have won more points away from home, others may argue that we would have if the squad hadn't been weakened by the loss of Jagielka and Shinnie, and both Plange and Ebosele seeming to be less effective after they'd been bought/signed by others; others still might argue that we didn't get the rub of the green with goals or refereeing decisions. But we won enough points to have stayed up comfortably in a normal season. Fact.

[Tyler Durden]

In League 1 last season 2 out of the 3 teams relegated also found themselves in the bottom 3 of the table for points accrued in away games that season. 

Which demonstrates there is a direct correlation between the quality of the players and away points realised. 

I'm only replying to comments apropos the quality of our players wasn't accountable for our league position. 

Which then doesn't stack up when you compare and contrast with other relegated teams without points deductions in the Championship and League 1 and the points they realised on their travels.

So for me isn't as simplistic as that. 

[ramsbottom]

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

In League 1 last season 2 out of the 3 teams relegated also found themselves in the bottom 3 of the table for points accrued in away games that season. 

Which demonstrates there is a direct correlation between the quality of the players and away points realised. 

I'm only replying to comments apropos the quality of our players wasn't accountable for our league position. 

Which then doesn't stack up when you compare and contrast with other relegated teams without points deductions in the Championship and League 1 and the points they realised on their travels.

So for me isn't as simplistic as that. 

That's a better way of stating your argument. 

Out of interest, out of those 3 teams, did any of them have as good a home record as ours?

[Tyler Durden]

6 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

That's a better way of stating your argument. 

Out of interest, out of those 3 teams, did any of them have as good a home record as ours?

Doncaster accrued 24 points at home versus 14 away.

Still struggling to pinpoint why our away record was that abysmal last season.

People have asked in the grand scheme of things what does it matter? Well if one person who's constant with this season and last is still at the club then yes it could matter if it's not down to the playing personnel. 

[Tamworthram]

9 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

In League 1 last season 2 out of the 3 teams relegated also found themselves in the bottom 3 of the table for points accrued in away games that season. 

Which demonstrates there is a direct correlation between the quality of the players and away points realised. 

I'm only replying to comments apropos the quality of our players wasn't accountable for our league position. 

Which then doesn't stack up when you compare and contrast with other relegated teams without points deductions in the Championship and League 1 and the points they realised on their travels.

So for me isn't as simplistic as that. 

Selective stats again though.

Last season, two of the three teams (Crewe and Doncaster) were indeed in the bottom three for points accrued away. But, all three teams relegated were also in the bottom 5 for points accrued at home (with Crewe and Wimbledon in the bottom three). If any of them had gained enough points at home to be in the top half of the table on that measure (as we were) they would probably have survived. 

So, it's not as simplistic as just looking at points earned away from home. 

[RoyMac5]

45 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Only Peterborough and Barnsley accrued a fewer number of away points last season then we did and were the poorest teams in the division by a country mile. 

So again same question still stands, why are folks maintaining that we didn't get relegated last season due to the quality of our team.

If the quality of our team was so good then why did we witness the above?

We had a lot of inexperienced players, it's harder to play away from home.

What does it matter to this season? Edit: even the management are a different team fyi.

Edited July 18, 2022 by RoyMac5

[Tamworthram]

15 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

That's a better way of stating your argument. 

Out of interest, out of those 3 teams, did any of them have as good a home record as ours?

But still flawed as it takes no account of home points accrued.

[Ian Buxton's Bat]

I think there are some mitigating factors for last season's rubbish away form.

There was a thought that we had to go for wins because of the points deductions and it meant we chased games when shutting up shop would have been better......with hindsight.

Think about Cardiff......Ravel nearly got us 3 points and we got 0. A few boring 0-0's, like at West Brom when Wazza knew we couldn't win, could have kept us up. 

Without points deductions, I hope a slightly different approach will get us a few boring points from our poorer performances on the road.

[ramsbottom]

53 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Doncaster accrued 24 points at home versus 14 away.

Still struggling to pinpoint why our away record was that abysmal last season.

People have asked in the grand scheme of things what does it matter? Well if one person who's constant with this season and last is still at the club then yes it could matter if it's not down to the playing personnel. 

I've done a little research and relegated Championship/League 1 team's home records last season were - 

Championship - Derby 40pts/Peterborough 25/Barnsley 22

League 1 - Gillingham 20pts/Crewe 20/Doncaster 24/Wimbledon 20

Our record is the outlier because we weren't as bad a side as the others.

[IslandExile]

Why is anyone even talking about us coming second???

Have a little faith people!!!

[Blondest Goat]

5 hours ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

 

There was a thought that we had to go for wins because of the points deductions and it meant we chased games when shutting up shop would have been better......with hindsight.

Think about Cardiff......Ravel nearly got us 3 points and we got 0. A few boring 0-0's, like at West Brom when Wazza knew we couldn't win, could have kept us up. 

Without points deductions, I hope a slightly different approach will get us a few boring points from our poorer performances on the road.

Doesn't seem possible that we could be any more toothless and boring away from home.   We were overly cautious and if we adopt anything like the same approach this season I can't see any way we can finish top two.  We were by no means a bad team but I think that had we gone for it a little bit more away from home rather than constantly playing back to the defenders and keeper to keep possession we would've stayed up.  Cardiff were there for the taking but but for all our possession we didn't create anywhere near enough chances.

[Bris Vegas]

Last season we underachieved away from home but overachieved at Pride Park.

Regardless of where they came from, we acquired enough points to have stayed up had it not been for the deductions.

Stoke were in the PL for about five years straight due to their home form.

Doesn’t really matter where the points come from, it’s the overall tally which counts.

We could win League One this season losing half our away games IF our form at Pride Park is dynamite.

For further context, Mansfield reached the League Two playoff final last season yet they only won 7 away games all season. They lost 9.

[May Contain Nuts]

25 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

For further context, Mansfield reached the League Two playoff final last season yet they only won 7 away games all season. They lost 9.

Poor away from with Nigel Clough in charge? Surely not. How can it be!?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Coconut's Beard