The Administration Thread

[duncanjwitham]

25 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

My guess is that he may have offered Personal Guarantees but fact is it is a  Ioan from Msd to Dcfc and is already secured against an asset that Morris owns ie PPS. 

Yeah, the question is what would have happened if Morris had put the stadium into admin at the same time. Would that have completely removed Morris from the process, or would he still have other assets that the MSD loan is secured against and still be involved somehow.

[RoyMac5]

12 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Isn't all of that pure conjecture on your part though? 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, possibly in the briefing notes from the Supporters Group or Team Derby, that it wasn't Morris who appointed the Administrators. Does that ring a bell with anyone else? 

 

Weren't there recent tweets that were anti-Pearce and one of the points raised was he appointed Q?

[kevinhectoring]

41 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

How would that work anyway, what would happen to MSDs claims?

Administration has no effect on creditors claims other than to suspend the right to enforce. 

But admin at 202 would give Q immediate control over the stadium.
 

I’d think it’s too late now to do it, all that is required is for MM to accept that he needs to write one last cheque to MSD ...

[kevinhectoring]

16 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Isn't all of that pure conjecture on your part though? 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, possibly in the briefing notes from the Supporters Group or Team Derby, that it wasn't Morris who appointed the Administrators. Does that ring a bell with anyone else? 

 

Likely MM was conflicted so had to recuse himself  Leaving the other directors to do the deed  Still feel sorry for Roy Macfarland 

But MM probably the real decision maker at all times 

 

[May Contain Nuts]

33 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

In Sept I think MM might have agreed for 202 to go into admin if Q had forced the issue. But we can’t be sure.   It would have been expedient for Q not to force the issue because they wanted the appointment at the club and so couldn’t afford a spat with MM
 

MM would now oppose a 202 admin I think and it’s too late for Q to start thinking along those lines (imho)

13 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Q persuaded MM that the club should file. (MSD could have made the club filing, but would have had a strong preference for the directors to do it.)

the position at 202 was little different so far as we know. Q could have persuaded MM as sole director to file, and MSD could also have made a filing at 202 over MM’s head. We don’t know whether Q initially recommended that 202 should file.
 

Hindsight suggests they should have recommended a filing at 202. So does Krasner. But the cynic in all of us would say that in Sept, Q’s objective was the appointment at the club and they may have concluded that a row with MM over 202 was not going to bring that about

 

I appreciate that you've made it clear that this is just your opinion, but I'm not sure how you can accuse Quantuma of bamboozling people and then come out with this speculative waffle? And then use it as the basis of your criticisms? I'm not even sure criticism is a strong enough word given how vehement your postings against them are, more like relentless slagging off.

You may have taught me something though. I guess I'd just assumed that a company had to file for administration before an administrator was appointed, but you seem to be suggesting that Quantuma pushed themselves to the fore by convincing MM to file for administration before they were even appointed?

I wouldn't have thought that would be looked upon fondly by the governing body, or anyone else, and would be duly investgated.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

So much detail based on pure speculation. 

[Curtains]

1 hour ago, RipleyRich said:

 

This line drew my attention:

to pass, a CVA must be approved by at least 75% of the creditors, by value.

Yes that was interesting and in fact  I’m learning by the day that it’s an extremely complicated process

In the past did creditors often lose out completely when Football Clubs went into administration ! 

What happened to the old Football Club Tea lady lol 

Who has access to the data room set up by administrators will it just be the Kirch and his team now whilst he’s got exclusivity.

 

[ilkleyram]

50 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

A true reflection of some American citizens I have spoken too while visiting North America.

On my one and only Jaunt to the USA...Clear Water Florida, It was the January after 9-11, I'll not go through the hassle at Toronto Airport, So landed at Orlando airport, Picked up the hire car and we drive to Clear Water, All good, Get to the apartment and settle in, We're with the Brother and Sister in Law who live in London Canada, As we met them in Toronto.

My Brother in Law loves the USA space programme so we drive to the American Space Centre to see all the old rockets and stuff, It's not my cup of tea but went as didn't want to pi$$ anyone off, Our last bit was a film about the Mir space centre with the Russians, We watched in a cinema, I get a tap on the shoulder and this fella asks...are you English...Yes, Do I live here...No, Where do I live...England...Have I been in the States long...3 days...How did you get to the USA...we flew...What even after 9-11, Yes security was a god damn pain but it did it's job, He introduced himself as Clark a farmer from Columbus Ohio, Hiya I'm Alf from Derby, Where is Derby...about 2 hours drive north of London, Now here's where I get to have a little fun, He asks...do we have farms in England...Yes I said, Also trees, Rivers, Cars, Building and Hospitals, How far Is England from the USA...around 3000 miles...and you flew to get here...yes as it's the quickest way, There's more tooing and frowing and I'm getting a little restless with his questioning, So begs his pardon and turn to talk to the Brother in Law which was just as bad ?

Now this is not a criticism of Clark, It's just that Americans I have met are pretty insular and now very little outside of the USA, But love to here about the UK. 

You could probably have a very similar conversation in Leeds with a Yorkshire farmer or two of my acquaintance - if they ventured as far as Leeds that is.

[ilkleyram]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Weren't there recent tweets that were anti-Pearce and one of the points raised was he appointed Q?

That came from Ed Dawes on Radio Derby before the last home match - he 'understood from someone close to the club that........'

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Administration has no effect on creditors claims other than to suspend the right to enforce. 

But admin at 202 would give Q immediate control over the stadium.
 

I’d think it’s too late now to do it, all that is required is for MM to accept that he needs to write one last cheque to MSD ...

Perhaps this is why? Thought it was odd at the time and kicked off lots of who owns the stadium stuff. ? So for old times sake... ?

 

 

[Curtains]

58 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

A true reflection of some American citizens I have spoken too while visiting North America.

On my one and only Jaunt to the USA...Clear Water Florida, It was the January after 9-11, I'll not go through the hassle at Toronto Airport, So landed at Orlando airport, Picked up the hire car and we drive to Clear Water, All good, Get to the apartment and settle in, We're with the Brother and Sister in Law who live in London Canada, As we met them in Toronto.

My Brother in Law loves the USA space programme so we drive to the American Space Centre to see all the old rockets and stuff, It's not my cup of tea but went as didn't want to pi$$ anyone off, Our last bit was a film about the Mir space centre with the Russians, We watched in a cinema, I get a tap on the shoulder and this fella asks...are you English...Yes, Do I live here...No, Where do I live...England...Have I been in the States long...3 days...How did you get to the USA...we flew...What even after 9-11, Yes security was a god damn pain but it did it's job, He introduced himself as Clark a farmer from Columbus Ohio, Hiya I'm Alf from Derby, Where is Derby...about 2 hours drive north of London, Now here's where I get to have a little fun, He asks...do we have farms in England...Yes I said, Also trees, Rivers, Cars, Building and Hospitals, How far Is England from the USA...around 3000 miles...and you flew to get here...yes as it's the quickest way, There's more tooing and frowing and I'm getting a little restless with his questioning, So begs his pardon and turn to talk to the Brother in Law which was just as bad ?

Now this is not a criticism of Clark, It's just that Americans I have met are pretty insular and now very little outside of the USA, But love to here about the UK. 

Once was in the sea at Clearwater when an horrendous lightning storm started and the life guard got on his loudspeaker. “Everyone out the Sea “ I’ve never swam so fast .

Did you manage the Florida Keys mate they are fantastic particularly when you drive down to Key West .

Spent one night in a small chalet at Key Largo next to the sea with Dolphins swimming around .

Anyhow the Americans can be a bit insular but not so much where my brother lives in San Francisco and San Anselmo is amazing .

CK is based in San Francisco I believe the IT hub of the World 

[Curtains]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Perhaps this is why? Thought it was odd at the time and kicked off lots of who owns the stadium stuff. ? So for old times sake... ?

 

 

It is owned by Mel allegedly but MSD could technically call in the loan secured against it at any time allegedly which is over 20 Million which would mean Mel would have to find the money or lose the Stadium allegedly 

PS MSD could have called that 20Million plus loan in at anytime and liquidated Derby allegedly 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Curtains
Altered

[Ram-Alf]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Once was in the sea at Clearwater when an horrendous lightning storm started and the life guard got on his loudspeaker. “Everyone out the Sea “ I’ve never swam so fast .

Did you manage the Florida Keys mate they are fantastic particularly when you drive down to Key West .

Spent one night in a small chalet at Key Largo next to the sea with Dolphins swimming around .

Anyhow the Americans can be a bit insular but not so much where my brother lives in San Francisco and San Anselmo is amazing .

CK is based in San Francisco I believe the IT hub of the World 

No, I saw the good and bad things that the USA have, I like to plot up and explore where I am, Only there a week then back to Canada, There's people that have wealth and there's people who have nowt, One thing that struck me about the States is...how much food you get when eating out...wow, Even the small helpings are huge ?

[minesahartington]

43 minutes ago, BobdeBilder said:

Yep, we all live in London which is, as most Americans think, England. I lived in Missouri where my wife is from, now she is well traveled. She has also lived all over the US, Japan and Korea and I met some people she went to school with. One had been out of the country to Mexico, one had been out of Missouri once to Arizona and couple had never left the state. The daughter of some friends once asked my daughter if we had Christmas in England. They are mostly really nice friendly people, but so insular.

 

I was once in NewYork looking at the early morning skyline from a famous viewpoint. 2 American ladies asked me which was the Empire State Building. It was so obvious. I said “the one with the gorilla hanging off the roof” they said “wow where”… just about sums up the average american

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

No, I saw the good and bad things that the USA have, I like to plot up and explore where I am, Only there a week then back to Canada, There's people that have wealth and there's people who have nowt, One thing that struck me about the States is...how much food you get when eating out...wow, Even the small helpings are huge ?

Yes they do like their food  and you have to tip as it’s mandatory.

We went to Oakland when my Dad was alive and he stopped for a fag and when we got back my brother said you shouldn’t have stopped where you did it’s dodgy it was fun though  

I spent 2 weeks in Toronto and loved it and even went to Niagara Falls which had one side in USA and the other Canada 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Curtains
Altered

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, minesahartington said:

I was once in NewYork looking at the early morning skyline from a famous viewpoint. 2 American ladies asked me which was the Empire State Building. It was so obvious. I said “the one with the gorilla hanging off the roof” they said “wow where”… just about sums up the average american

How on earth did they miss it ?

[CBRammette]

32 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

You could probably have a very similar conversation in Leeds with a Yorkshire farmer or two of my acquaintance - if they ventured as far as Leeds that is.

Yep mum and dad's neighbour in Norfolk has never been further than Cambridge

[kevinhectoring]

26 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

but you seem to be suggesting that Quantuma pushed themselves to the fore by convincing MM to file for administration before they were even appointed?

If you recall the first Hoskin interview and the famous MM curtain call with Ed Cole on RD, you will know:

- Q wrote an options paper delivered ? 3 weeks before filing where they recommended admin at the club. The MM spin was that it was the only way to procure a sale because whilst he was unable to force resolution with EFL the admins would be able to. Proved correct. Also clear he’d taken the view to write no more cheques, minor detail

- the likelihood is that Q was initially brought in by MSD. I say that because in a later interview Hoskin was at pains to state that he did not know MM very well at all. But that might have been bluster 

- MSD has a legal right to appoint the administrator of its choice. But we now think they have excellent security cover (MM cash deposit) so they would not have a strong view on who did it.   Having bought into the recommendations in the options paper it’s therefore not surprising that MM and MSD were happy for Q to do it. Their strategy was known and approved 

You make an excellent point about regulatory concerns around the appointment. Can’t give you chapter and verse about that 

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Yes they do like their food  and you have to tip as it’s mandatory.

We went to Oakland when my Dad was alive and he stopped for a fag and when we got back my brother said you shouldn’t have stopped where you did it’s dodgy it was fun though  

I spent 2 weeks in Toronto and loved it and even went to Niagara Falls which had one side in USA and the other Canada 

We better be careful, To many stories of holidays and we'll be told off.

Done Niagara Falls to death, Just a shyte load of water going over a cliff, The noise and the mist can pi$$ you off, And no I didn't do the Maid of the Mist, Or CN Tower in Toronto as I'm sh it scared of heights☹️

[Arsene Titman]

So the EFL do have discretion regarding the applying of a further 15 points deduction. From the Derby Telegraph this morning:

“If there is to be a further points penalty, when will it be?

The EFL's insolvency policy says: "Such deduction to take effect at a time to be determined by the Board in its absolute discretion but ordinarly at the commencement of the Season following the Season in which the Insolvency Event occurred."