The Administration Thread

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

Another slow news day I see

[kevinhectoring]

49 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Very harsh Iram. 

he was in an honorary position and I doubt he had much idea what was going on . 
 

@i-Ramis being very harsh.  Of course RoyMac is legally responsible as a director (there’s no such thing as an honorific director PdP) but to say he is ‘to blame’ is clearly unfair - he doesn’t have the expertise to be morally culpable and anyway it’s quite likely Mel kept him in the dark. 
 

He deserves our sympathy - it will have been a troubling time and I hope Q have put him at ease 

Edited February 21, 2022 by kevinhectoring

[RoyMac5]

20 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-Ramis being very harsh.  Of course RoyMac is legally responsible as a director (there’s no such thing as an honorific director PdP) but to say he is ‘to blame’ is clearly unfair - he doesn’t have the expertise to be morally culpable and anyway it’s quite likely Mel kept him in the dark. 
 

He deserves our sympathy - it will have been a troubling time and I hope Q have put him at ease 

Yes, I can't think he has enjoyed any of this. One of the Club's real greats and his name is now being equated with the current troubles. ?

[Comrade 86]

Always got the impression that Roy was non-exec and simply there in a PR capacity. Pressing the flesh before and after games with those who'd taken hospitality packages and that kind of stuff. Doubt he'd be in any way involved with the strategic planning side of the business. It's actually quite saddening to see him tarred with the same brush as Morris as he's always seemed a true gentleman to me. That said, Morris had me fooled for long enough... ?

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by 86 Hair Islands
typo

[Jimbo Ram]

46 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Another slow news day I see

Yep

[PistoldPete]

31 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-Ramis being very harsh.  Of course RoyMac is legally responsible as a director (there’s no such thing as an honorific director PdP) but to say he is ‘to blame’ is clearly unfair - he doesn’t have the expertise to be morally culpable and anyway it’s quite likely Mel kept him in the dark. 
 

He deserves our sympathy - it will have been a troubling time and I hope Q have put him at ease 

Yes I meant really he was appointed  because of his name and I doubt he had very much involvement in the running of the business and probably no control at all.

So in a way he is as much a victim as anything, his good name has been used and unfairly tainted by the experience. 
 

sure there is the directors fiduciary duty… but if you have no real financial knowledge and no shareholding you can have no power to go with that responsibility. And may be kept in the dark as well. 

[RoyMac5]

 

[PistoldPete]

57 minutes ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said:

Another slow news day I see

Yes. In other news the Queen has a cold. 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I take your point i-Ram. But in mitigation Roy Mac was a non-executive director was he not? Furthermore, Mel Morris and Stephen Pearce kept Wayne Rooney, the playing staff, the club staff and the whole fan base in the dark about the dire state of affairs. John Kirkland RIP was an astute business man and also a non-executive director I think but he seemed to have identified the problems and resigned before the fall into insolvency. To my mind, Roy Mac was just on the board as a club ambassador and I feel he may well not have realised how bad things were. For me and I expect most supporters it would rub salt into our wounds if Roy McFarland is in any way tarnished by Morris' actions. I just wish that we could have any faith at all that the EFL might be able to see it that way. Roy McFarland has done more good for football in this country than ~Rick Parry, Peter Ridsdale et al could even dream about.

Well said Brailsford. And I think John Kirkland may have resigned due to family health issues, that’s what I understood. He has of course since passed away himself. 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

Very harsh Iram. 

he was in an honorary position and I doubt he had much idea what was going on . 
 

If he clearly had very little idea what was going on, that doesnt make him a very good non-executive director does it?

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I take your point i-Ram. But in mitigation Roy Mac was a non-executive director was he not? Furthermore, Mel Morris and Stephen Pearce kept Wayne Rooney, the playing staff, the club staff and the whole fan base in the dark about the dire state of affairs. John Kirkland RIP was an astute business man and also a non-executive director I think but he seemed to have identified the problems and resigned before the fall into insolvency. To my mind, Roy Mac was just on the board as a club ambassador and I feel he may well not have realised how bad things were. For me and I expect most supporters it would rub salt into our wounds if Roy McFarland is in any way tarnished by Morris' actions. I just wish that we could have any faith at all that the EFL might be able to see it that way. Roy McFarland has done more good for football in this country than ~Rick Parry, Peter Ridsdale et al could even dream about.

I acknowledge your mitigation, and I accept your position as I suspect you know a lot more about Roy's contribution than I do. I am certainly not attempting to muddy his name either, BUT a non-executive director's role is to provide a contribution to the proper running of a company and the position on the board is to provide independent oversight and constructive challenge to the executive directors. There is no legal distinction between executive and non-executive directors. Non-executive director’s have the same legal duties, responsibilities and potential liabilities as executive directors. They are also subject to the codified duties of directors contained in the Companies Act 2006 in the same way as executive directors. It is interesting the point you make about Kirkland ?

[rynny]

On 19/02/2022 at 22:58, kevinhectoring said:

Some at the EFl may take the orthodox view that clubs should not ‘benefit’ from admin, so they may hope we go down. They’re entitled to their view but it’s grossly simplistic in our case 

some will be against us because of MM’s attacks, that’s true 

and there may be others at the  EFl who come on here, read what we say about them and their boss and think: “good riddance if you go down”. They are only human. That’s sort of what I was on about today

But one thing is for sure: their ideal scenario was for us to win the case against Gibbo and for the panel to say: no club can sue another for P&S breach 

Is there any chance you could either write EFL or efl or even Efl? It hurts my eyes when you have a lower case L after 2 capital letters.

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

If he clearly had very little idea what was going on, that doesnt make him a very good non-executive director does it?

I would refer you to Brailsford’s post Iram. Did Wayne Rooney know what was going on with Morris? No, he was kept in the dark. Did that make him a bad manager? No.

[kevinhectoring]

21 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

This one's fairly amusing 

Disgusting and shameful, you should ask for it to be taken down. You think it’s amusing and you blithely ignore the cruelty in the filming.  
 

You’ve obviously never had to remove duct tape from a cat 

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

@i-Ramis being very harsh.  Of course RoyMac is legally responsible as a director (there’s no such thing as an honorific director PdP) but to say he is ‘to blame’ is clearly unfair - he doesn’t have the expertise to be morally culpable and anyway it’s quite likely Mel kept him in the dark. 

He deserves our sympathy - it will have been a troubling time and I hope Q have put him at ease 

You do bloody annoy me at times Kevin. You get bogged down in the minutae of language and detail so often, but here you are stating that I am saying Roy McFarland is to blame.  What I said was: Roy Mac has to take some responsibility for the plight we are in, and should not be excluded from ‘blame’.

As far as I am concerned, Roy McFarland has done a wonderful job for the Club as player, manager, and ambassador.  He hasn't apparently done such a great job as a non-exec director, but I am happy to take a steer on this matter from @Brailsford Ramwhose opinion I value. 

[i-Ram]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I would refer you to Brailsford’s post Iram. Did Wayne Rooney know what was going on with Morris? No, he was kept in the dark. Did that make him a bad manager? No.

I have acknowledged Brailsfords position thanks ?  Why you want to bring Rooney into this I don't know. He was not a director. There is no reason why matters of finance, strategy, business performance and resources should be discussed with Rooney in the Boardroom. Yes some boardroom decisions that affect the team should be fed down to him obviously by the CEO (not McFarland).

[Jimbo Ram]

47 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Yes. In other news the Queen has a cold. 

But she is continuing with light duties as we understand it.......

[1967RAMS]

27 minutes ago, rynny said:

Is there any chance you could either write EFL or efl or even Efl? It hurts my eyes when you have a lower case L after 2 capital letters.

NOt a chance 

[PistoldPete]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I have acknowledged Brailsfords position thanks ?  Why you want to bring Rooney into this I don't know. He was not a director. There is no reason why matters of finance, strategy, business performance and resources should be discussed with Rooney in the Boardroom. Yes some boardroom decisions that affect the team should be fed down to him obviously by the CEO (not McFarland).

I mention Rooney as an example of how Morris kept even someone as prominent as Rooney in the dark. 
 

Morris was technically the controlling director. And he was a very controlling director. So I have every sympathy with Roy for the position he was in. And my guess is he will be better off out of it and happier just playing golf and carrying on being an ambassador and legend for the club. 

[i-Ram]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

I mention Rooney as an example of how Morris kept even someone as prominent as Rooney in the dark. 

Morris was technically the controlling director. And he was a very controlling director. So I have every sympathy with Roy for the position he was in. And my guess is he will be better off out of it and happier just playing golf and carrying on being an ambassador and legend for the club. 

I am not going round in circles with you Pete, or Kevin. Had enough of that previously, and so have many on here. I will just reinforce the point I have been trying to make since I replied to Duncan.  If anyone accepts a non-executive director's position, being 'in the dark' is no excuse. If you are 'in the dark' or 'against decisions being made' then resign. That is good advice whether you are Lord Alan Sugar, Roy McFarland or PistoldPete.