Saudia Arabia, Qatar and the power of oil

[TigerTedd]

To loosely link this into a sports based theme, this rant has been inspired by the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, as well as things like the World Cup in Qatar, and various big boxing and other sporting events in the region, and Saudi Arabian regimes owning football clubs, etc. There's been quite a few things recently that have gotten under my skin, in the end it comes around to climate change, and our inability as a species to be able to prioritise the needs of the many over there needs of the few, and I'm just looking to see if anyone can explain to me why the situation is what it is, and enlighten me to any reason I should feel hopeful that change is a-coming.

So, obviously all the events are taking place in that region because of the vast wealth there. The vast wealth comes from oil. Why have events like COP26 not resulted in the oil sheiks and their ilk to quake in there boots? Why is the message not loud and clear: "We don't want your oil, we don't need your oil"? Why are countries that sit on massive lithium deposits like Bolivia not the neuvo mega wealthy?

if every government at COP26 said, 'You know what, we're going fully renewable, from tomorrow. Nothing but electric cars on the roads. Wind farms as far as the eye can see." Oil would be worth less than water overnight.

That's probably all very unrealistic, but at the very least these places should all be on notice at this point. Within the next decade we will have no need for your oil, you need to start making plans.

I don't understand the economics of it oil. Surely everyone involved knows that oil has always been a finite resource. Its death knell has been hastened by climate change, but even if it had zero impact on the environment, it would still be a finite resource, it will run out eventually. Has anyone got a plan for what happens then? Or is it just a problem for a future generation to deal with?

I'm a million miles away from being an expert, I'm sure there's a billion and one complicated factors involved, but my view is that there are some very rich and powerful people with too much to lose, and they will hold onto that wealth and power for as long as they possibly can, forsaking literally everything else. Is there anything that the poor and powerless masses can do to stop it?

 

[sage]

Because for the moment and for the next 15-20 years we need their oil

They have that length of time to find alternative income

Edited December 6, 2021 by sage

[Anon]

All the things you're talking about will eventually happen, but things like this take time and you won't see much change over a relatively short human life span. There are plans being made. You only need to look at the proliferation of green energy sources in the west and the continued advances in nuclear technology. It will be awesome to see some of the megacities on the Arabian peninsula get slowly reclaimed by the sand, but we won't live to see that.

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Because for the moment and for the next 15-20 years we need their oil

They have that length of time to find alternative income

I know that’s the reality of the situation. But I don’t understand why it can’t just happen right now, with like a years notice, or 5 years notice. It would be a shock to the system for some people. But it’s like taking a plaster off, it has to happen at some point, might as well get it done now. I’d love to live the see all this happen. 

[sage]

33 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I know that’s the reality of the situation. But I don’t understand why it can’t just happen right now, with like a years notice, or 5 years notice. It would be a shock to the system for some people. But it’s like taking a plaster off, it has to happen at some point, might as well get it done now. I’d love to live the see all this happen. 

If you banned fossil fuels in 1 years time about a quarter (massive guess) of the worlds population would die. 

It where wee need to end up ASAP but we have so much work to do first 

Edited December 6, 2021 by sage

[Mucker1884]

3 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

To loosely link this into a sports based theme, this rant has been inspired by the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, as well as things like the World Cup in Qatar, and various big boxing and other sporting events in the region, and Saudi Arabian regimes owning football clubs, etc. There's been quite a few things recently that have gotten under my skin, in the end it comes around to climate change, and our inability as a species to be able to prioritise the needs of the many over there needs of the few, and I'm just looking to see if anyone can explain to me why the situation is what it is, and enlighten me to any reason I should feel hopeful that change is a-coming.

So, obviously all the events are taking place in that region because of the vast wealth there. The vast wealth comes from oil. Why have events like COP26 not resulted in the oil sheiks and their ilk to quake in there boots? Why is the message not loud and clear: "We don't want your oil, we don't need your oil"? Why are countries that sit on massive lithium deposits like Bolivia not the neuvo mega wealthy?

if every government at COP26 said, 'You know what, we're going fully renewable, from tomorrow. Nothing but electric cars on the roads. Wind farms as far as the eye can see." Oil would be worth less than water overnight.

That's probably all very unrealistic, but at the very least these places should all be on notice at this point. Within the next decade we will have no need for your oil, you need to start making plans.

I don't understand the economics of it oil. Surely everyone involved knows that oil has always been a finite resource. Its death knell has been hastened by climate change, but even if it had zero impact on the environment, it would still be a finite resource, it will run out eventually. Has anyone got a plan for what happens then? Or is it just a problem for a future generation to deal with?

I'm a million miles away from being an expert, I'm sure there's a billion and one complicated factors involved, but my view is that there are some very rich and powerful people with too much to lose, and they will hold onto that wealth and power for as long as they possibly can, forsaking literally everything else. Is there anything that the poor and powerless masses can do to stop it?

 

That's an awfully long post, just to get a bit of wordy-pokery pun-based jollity in print!  

Full marks for temerity and doggedness though, and a doff of my cap to you, sir!  

[Comrade 86]

Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Putin and initially Trump have already laid claim to the 90 billion+ barrels of oil, 1,669 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and 44 billion barrels of undiscovered natural gas liquids to be harvested. Allied to a generally apathetic public approach to reducing CO2 emissions, the future is appears somewhat bleak.

Can you say 'fracking'?

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Putin and initially Trump have already laid claim to the 90 billion+ barrels of oil, 1,669 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, and 44 billion barrels of undiscovered natural gas liquids to be harvested. Allied to a generally apathetic public approach to reducing CO2 emissions, the future is appears somewhat bleak.

Can you say 'fracking'?

That’s what’s very sad. There’s more of an appetitive to find more oil deposits than there is to find newer, cleaner power sources. 

I just get really annoyed cos I’ve recently ripped the gas out of my house, and all my electricity comes from renewable resources, charging up an attic full of batteries, topped up by the solar panels on my roof, and my solar hot water. And I’m putting in my order for my first electric car this week. 

so I’m my personal life, I’ll have zero reliance on oil (besides all the general infrastructure stuff I obviously depend on). 

that’s not me showing off (it is a bit), it’s me saying that it’s totally possible and within the realistic power of a normal person. I should be the norm, not the exception. Why aren’t governments doing more to make this easier for people? Right now, there are houses being built without a second though for this kind of thing. Why aren’t electric car charging points being fitted into new houses as standard, not as a choice by an environmentally conscious builder wanting to be a bit different, but mandated by the government. Why aren’t solar panels and other greener solutions built into new houses from the design stage? They mandated that houses need to be insulated and meet energy efficiency ratings, but these mandates are already massively out of date, and should now be seen as the absolute bare minimum rather than the gold standard.

It pisses me off that I’ve done all this on my house, and now I’m thinking of moving to a new build. Seems like a really good opportunity to build my green system in to the house, rather than tack it on as an afterthought. I asked if I could request them not to install a gas central heating system, and I’ll sort my own out, don’t put tiles on the roof and I’ll bring in my own solar tiles, but they said that’s not possible. They have to build everything to spec, and then I’d have to buy the house and rip everything out and start again. Might as well just buy an old house in that case.

nothing but electric cars by 2030 is a pretty decent starting point though, I’ll give them that.

 

 

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

That's an awfully long post, just to get a bit of wordy-pokery pun-based jollity in print!  

Full marks for temerity and doggedness though, and a doff of my cap to you, sir!  

I’m quite impressed with myself there. I’ll claim that I did that on purpose. 

[G STAR RAM]

The good thing about this though is at least it shows these sportsmen, who are on their knees every week preaching to us and telling us how bad we are, up for what they really are...money grabbing hypocrites with absolutely no self awareness.

[Rev]

14 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

nothing but electric cars by 2030 is a pretty decent starting point though, I’ll give them that.

I think it's ICE only cars that will be phased out, so you'll still have hybrid fossil fuel cars on sale.

[Foreveram]

18 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

That’s what’s very sad. There’s more of an appetitive to find more oil deposits than there is to find newer, cleaner power sources. 

I just get really annoyed cos I’ve recently ripped the gas out of my house, and all my electricity comes from renewable resources, charging up an attic full of batteries, topped up by the solar panels on my roof, and my solar hot water. And I’m putting in my order for my first electric car this week. 

so I’m my personal life, I’ll have zero reliance on oil (besides all the general infrastructure stuff I obviously depend on). 

that’s not me showing off (it is a bit), it’s me saying that it’s totally possible and within the realistic power of a normal person. I should be the norm, not the exception. Why aren’t governments doing more to make this easier for people? Right now, there are houses being built without a second though for this kind of thing. Why aren’t electric car charging points being fitted into new houses as standard, not as a choice by an environmentally conscious builder wanting to be a bit different, but mandated by the government. Why aren’t solar panels and other greener solutions built into new houses from the design stage? They mandated that houses need to be insulated and meet energy efficiency ratings, but these mandates are already massively out of date, and should now be seen as the absolute bare minimum rather than the gold standard.

It pisses me off that I’ve done all this on my house, and now I’m thinking of moving to a new build. Seems like a really good opportunity to build my green system in to the house, rather than tack it on as an afterthought. I asked if I could request them not to install a gas central heating system, and I’ll sort my own out, don’t put tiles on the roof and I’ll bring in my own solar tiles, but they said that’s not possible. They have to build everything to spec, and then I’d have to buy the house and rip everything out and start again. Might as well just buy an old house in that case.

nothing but electric cars by 2030 is a pretty decent starting point though, I’ll give them that.

 

 

Why not buy a piece of land and build to your own spec.

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Foreveram said:

Why not buy a piece of land and build to your own spec.

I’m tempted to do that. It’ll be a bit of a grand adventure though, I’ve never undertaken anything like that before. 

[Foreveram]

3 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

I’m tempted to do that. It’ll be a bit of a grand adventure though, I’ve never undertaken anything like that before. 

Get yourself a good architect and then you can implement your own ideas into the build. If you don’t have the time or inclination you can always employ a project manager.

[TigerTedd]

10 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Get yourself a good architect and then you can implement your own ideas into the build. If you don’t have the time or inclination you can always employ a project manager.

Oo, I like that idea. I have so many plans. 

[Ram-Alf]

China builds an artificial Island in the South China Sea, Russia holds vast Gas reserves and holds a lot of Europe to ransom, Saudi Arabia has a Journalist murdered, Azerbaijan is on the Grand Prix circuit, The West is robbing some African nations of their resources and dumping our waste on their land

We're all at it...why because morality gets spunked out the window where money is concerned, And all the above have more skeletons in their closets than Burke and Hare

[Tamworthram]

19 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

The good thing about this though is at least it shows these sportsmen, who are on their knees every week preaching to us and telling us how bad we are, up for what they really are...money grabbing hypocrites with absolutely no self awareness.

Genuine question, do many other sportsmen/women other than footballers take the knee before their event? I can't say that I remember seeing it happen.

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Genuine question, do many other sportsmen/women other than footballers take the knee before their event? I can't say that I remember seeing it happen.

Lewis Hamilton until most of the drivers kicked off, Englands Rugby Union, Englands Womens football, England Cricket

 

[ramsbottom]

4 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

China builds an artificial Island in the South China Sea, Russia holds vast Gas reserves and holds a lot of Europe to ransom, Saudi Arabia has a Journalist murdered, Azerbaijan is on the Grand Prix circuit, The West is robbing some African nations of their resources and dumping our waste on their land

We're all at it...why because morality gets spunked out the window where money is concerned, And all the above have more skeletons in their closets than Burke and Hare

 Very good point. Even though I can’t afford a decent electric car for the time being I do what I can for the environment. I’ve cut down on meat in our weekly shop and I’m really anal when it comes to recycling my rubbish. But little did I know that barely a third of what I put in my blue bin actually gets recycled. The rest gets shipped off to the Third World and stuck into landfill… 

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Genuine question, do many other sportsmen/women other than footballers take the knee before their event? I can't say that I remember seeing it happen.

Not sure to be honest.

My comment is specifically aimed at any footballer taking the knee and a certain Mr Hamilton.

If they think discrimination is such a big issue then there is no way they would be taking part in any event in Saudi Arabia or Qatar...unless it comes down to money.