Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Just now, ThePrisoner said: Things like this gain ground because you post them. Best not give them the attention or time of day really. I used to think that but to be honest mate I don’t think it matters. I think Derby should send the new amortisation calculations ASAP and see where it goes from there . Holding out is like death from a thousand cuts jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, Curtains said: The problem is it’s a perception that’s gaining ground. Hey ho Hi the few efl interested people I know hold this opinion despite all efforts to educate them. There is no sympathy for our predicament and no sense of how difficult it is to cope with the ongoing threats. Do you know people with the same negative views? Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 9 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Just a hunch, But, Suppose the EFL appeal, could the LAP rule a deduction (say 3 points) suspended pending any breaches due to the restated P&S figures? Then that would be a double punishment in the event of overspending. This is 'charge 1', essentially relating to using an improper amortisation policy. Punishment should be suitable to that and not have any bearing on whether we have overspent or not. You're either guilty or you're not. It can't be a case of being guilty IF you're also guilty of something else. 'Charge 2' would be relating to possible overspending. Penalties are already well defined, although mitigations and aggravating factors are not which could decrease of increase the basic penalty. Carnero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Just now, Spanish said: Hi the few efl interested people I know hold this opinion despite all efforts to educate them. There is no sympathy for our predicament and no sense of how difficult it is to cope with the ongoing threats. Do you know people with the same negative views? Absolutely loads. You talk to people and they just throw their hands up in the air if you know what I mean . Its like hey ho what will be will be Spanish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Then that would be a double punishment in the event of overspending. This is 'charge 1', essentially relating to using an improper amortisation policy. Punishment should be suitable to that and not have any bearing on whether we have overspent or not. You're either guilty or you're not. It can't be a case of being guilty IF you're also guilty of something else. 'Charge 2' would be relating to possible overspending. Penalties are already well defined, although mitigations and aggravating factors are not which could decrease of increase the basic penalty. But if the unacceptable methodology which resulted in a fine, currently, was shown by the restated accounts to have provided no advantage, where will this go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 I've thought about this a bit and changed my opinion. The alternative fixture list is just a sop to the pitchfork-wielders. The EFL will appeal this ruling and the outcome will be a £200k fine or something and that'll be the end of it because it'll have all dragged on so long, it's too difficult to do anything else. Reason being that the EFL signed-off both of the two key issues so are as culpable as we are. Yep, that's blind optimism right there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 The saddest thing about all this is the longer it goes on people’s livelihoods are at risk at DCFC and associated companies. Its bad enough I would think for Derby County dealing with the fallout from the pandemic anyway. Im glad I went to watch England vs Scotland at Pride Park . I honestly think any thing however small that Rams fans can do to help the club is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Just now, Raich Carter said: I've thought about this a bit and changed my opinion. The alternative fixture list is just a sop to the pitchfork-wielders. The EFL will appeal this ruling and the outcome will be a £200k fine or something and that'll be the end of it because it'll have all dragged on so long, it's too difficult to do anything else. Reason being that the EFL signed-off both of the two key issues so are as culpable as we are. Yep, that's blind optimism right there! The problem is the appeal from the EFL will return the appeal panel who think we are guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said: Things like this gain ground because you post them. Best not give them the attention or time of day really. But this article is the top article on my Derby County newsnow feed, meaning it has been tagged with our club name. So anyone who did an internet search wanting to learn more about what all this Derby/EFL business is about may be directed to this article. The fact that it’s been shared on here is not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 41 minutes ago, Curtains said: Articles like this don’t help us and it’s factually incorrect IMO https://planetswans.co.uk/2021/06/28/Derby-county-farce-leaves-the-efl-integrity-in-question/ "difficult to have sympathy for Derby given their indiscretions" - indiscretions originally approved by the EFL for 3 consecutive accounting periods. "independent body has now opted to dole out a fine alone and not a points deduction like the twelve points Sheffield Wednesday were docked last year" - yeah, that's probably because the charge wasn't related to overspending ? "clear examples of points being an appropriate sanction for such rule breaks and that should happen" - really? I don't think any club has ever been charged for using an improper amortisation policy. "that should mean the penalty being applied for last season which would see Derby relegated to League One" - based on what exactly? Because a verdict for SWFC was arrived at just after the end of last season and had their penalty applied to 20/21? The problem is the perception of us "cheating P&S", which automatically means points deduction in people's minds. ColonelBlimp, Carnero, BucksRam and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Spanish said: But if the unacceptable methodology which resulted in a fine, currently, was shown by the restated accounts to have provided no advantage, where will this go? Then it ends with just a fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said: The LAP refer to rule 18.22 which is a bit painful to us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said: Then it ends with just a fine Getting fined for a Methodology which provides no advantage, only the efl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: "difficult to have sympathy for Derby given their indiscretions" - indiscretions originally approved by the EFL for 3 consecutive accounting periods. "independent body has now opted to dole out a fine alone and not a points deduction like the twelve points Sheffield Wednesday were docked last year" - yeah, that's probably because the charge wasn't related to overspending ? "clear examples of points being an appropriate sanction for such rule breaks and that should happen" - really? I don't think any club has ever been charged for using an improper amortisation policy. "that should mean the penalty being applied for last season which would see Derby relegated to League One" - based on what exactly? Because a verdict for SWFC was arrived at just after the end of last season and had their penalty applied to 20/21? The problem is the perception of us "cheating P&S", which automatically means points deduction in people's minds. Exactly. The wider football public who aren’t paying attention haven’t even grasped that we’ve not been found guilty of a P&S breach, and that the stadium sale charges brought at the same time were dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: "difficult to have sympathy for Derby given their indiscretions" - indiscretions originally approved by the EFL for 3 consecutive accounting periods. "independent body has now opted to dole out a fine alone and not a points deduction like the twelve points Sheffield Wednesday were docked last year" - yeah, that's probably because the charge wasn't related to overspending ? "clear examples of points being an appropriate sanction for such rule breaks and that should happen" - really? I don't think any club has ever been charged for using an improper amortisation policy. "that should mean the penalty being applied for last season which would see Derby relegated to League One" - based on what exactly? Because a verdict for SWFC was arrived at just after the end of last season and had their penalty applied to 20/21? The problem is the perception of us "cheating P&S", which automatically means points deduction in people's minds. It’s true it’s all about perception. I not sure that most Derby fans have grasped the seriousness of all this for the club ! The club needs more support IMO but I’m not sure how we can give it Just my opinion. jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 On last point on this and I’ve changed my opinion . The club DCFC need to go on the offensive with a media campaign of their own putting out the truth. This is not going away unless we fight back Mick Brolly, NottsRam77, jimtastic56 and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Curtains said: On last point on this and I’ve changed my opinion . The club DCFC need to go on the offensive with a media campaign of their own putting out the truth. This is not going away unless we fight back Me and the Club are going to wait 15 minutes to see if you change your opinion. Stop stressing Curtains; que sera sera. Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taribo Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Trouble is if we used the amortisation methodology as a way to increase spending/defer losses then we will likely be in breach of P&S when compared to the 'standard' methodology. Losses/spending for amortisation would have been capped against a different criteria than for 'standard' methodology, we may have been within P&S using our method, but over if we now have to revert to 'standard' P&S methodology. Not really our fault though if the EFL signed it off (three times - if we believe what we've heard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Did we start using the “new” amortisation before the stadium sale occurred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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