I hate Captain Hindsight even more than I hated Captain Bob

[richinspain]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

So if I am reading this right because you voted in a poll bitd you can’t have a different opinion now when you have better experience. ?‍♂️

No, not at all. It just seems that no one wanted him as permanent manager. I know it was far closer to 50/50 when he first took over, but when he was appointed permanently it was 94% in favour. He was the best thing since sliced bread. Skimming through that thread this morning to find whether the poll was from the same day there were some incredible comments. By all means change your mind with hindsight, but unless you were one of the 7 against it don't at least say that you could see he was the wrong appointment.

Please look the thread up. It's simple. Type Rooney into the search button and look in thread titles only. It's a cracking read. Anyone would think that he has killed (or slept with) most of the poster's grannies just lately.

[richinspain]

19 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

By Captain Bob, am I correct in assuming that's Maxwell, the man who saved us from extiction with 30 minutes to go, if memory serves? Not sure how to view him, with hindsight.

Yes. He was our last minute saviour, who very nearly left us even worse off.

[jono]

On 30/05/2021 at 11:47, RoyMac5 said:

So when things are going well. When things don't go well fans change their mind. 

But does that mean we are fickle or engaging in hindsight, or perhaps just fibbing to ourselves ? 
 

I’ve been thinking what recent signings and dealings just didn’t work or plainly cost too much .. when I say too much I mean every signing is a gamble to a certain extent but these are the ones that seem to be paying Mercedes money for something either pretty ordinary or high mileage

Butterfield .. most thought good punt on an up and coming .. turned out to be pretty bland considering the panic buy fee

Bradders .. good lad .. just so much money in the fee and the wages 

Chris Martins new contract while away at Fulham .. How much was that ?

Nick Blackman.. hugely over priced 

I was excited by Butters and Bradley .. it was a sort of must do following Hughes and Bryson’s dual injury at the start of the season with a new manager .. guessed the price was high end but it was support for Clement and a statement of intent to compete. I am sure that an overwhelming majority of us thought the same. 

Loved Chris Martin, glad he got an extended payday .. but .. phew that was a golden sunset for him and unwise for the club.

Nick Blackman .. we were sold a ringer on the strength of a flashy paint job .. mistake, those in the know should have done better ... but I never liked Pearson even though I tried to early on. 
 

hindsight or mature reflection? 

[ilkleyram]

7 hours ago, richinspain said:

The pole was started the day he was given the job permanently. I honestly don't remember if I voted, but would have voted yes. Here's another screenshot from the same day, so you can see that the thread and the pole were at least on the same day, and referring to Rooney's permanent appointment.

 

It’s disappointing that @IslandExile hasn’t liked the OP given that he predicted all this. Without the benefit of Captain Hindsight. 

[Jimbo Ram]

6 minutes ago, jono said:

But does that mean we are fickle or engaging in hindsight, or perhaps just fibbing to ourselves ? 
 

I’ve been thinking what recent signings and dealings just didn’t work or plainly cost too much .. when I say too much I mean every signing is a gamble to a certain extent but these are the ones that seem to be paying Mercedes money for something either pretty ordinary or high mileage

Butterfield .. most thought good punt on an up and coming .. turned out to be pretty bland considering the panic buy fee

Bradders .. good lad .. just so much money in the fee and the wages 

Chris Martins new contract while away at Fulham .. How much was that ?

Nick Blackman.. hugely over priced 

I was excited by Butters and Bradley .. it was a sort of must do following Hughes and Bryson’s dual injury at the start of the season with a new manager .. guessed the price was high end but it was support for Clement and a statement of intent to compete. I am sure that an overwhelming majority of us thought the same. 

Loved Chris Martin, glad he got an extended payday .. but .. phew that was a golden sunset for him and unwise for the club.

Nick Blackman .. we were sold a ringer on the strength of a flashy paint job .. mistake, those in the know should have done better ... but I never liked Pearson even though I tried to early on. 
 

hindsight or mature reflection? 

Don't think you can compare Butters and Bradders on the pitch, Bradders was quite decent at times and would walk in to the current team....

[IslandExile]

18 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

It’s disappointing that @IslandExile hasn’t liked the OP given that he predicted all this. Without the benefit of Captain Hindsight. 

I've added my 'like' but I confess I voted in favour and have since changed my mind.

What I am guilty of is not wanting Rooney at the club, feeling that his presence massively undermined Cocu. Consequently, at first I didn't want him appointed as manager.

However, he won me over in interviews early on. I then did want him as manager - in fact, I was one of the 'early adopters' to call for his appointment.

Now though, since the Bielik injury, having seen Rooney's "tactics", team selections, substitutions, I have changed my mind again. I want him out.

To those that say we have changed managers too often, I would agree. I think the problem has been not taking enough care on the appointment in the first place - we've gone from one manager to the next, each with different approaches. The result has been a hotch pot of a squad, that we are now having to clear out.

But, whether we have swapped managers too often or not, it's not a reason to stick with a manager - Rooney or anyone - if it's not working out.

Edited May 31, 2021 by IslandExile

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, jono said:

I’ve been thinking what recent signings and dealings just didn’t work or plainly cost too much .. when I say too much I mean every signing is a gamble to a certain extent but these are the ones that seem to be paying Mercedes money for something either pretty ordinary or high mileage...hindsight or mature reflection? 

No proper plan being followed. Then deviations can also be calculated. 

Expensive chances taken, repeatedly. We kept thinking (a bit like a gambling addict) that the next throw of the dice will be the winner. In the end just not what we hoped or wished for, but what the addict couldn't (or wouldn't) control?

[IslandExile]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No proper plan being followed. Then deviations can also be calculated. 

Expensive chances taken, repeatedly. We kept thinking (a bit like a gambling addict) that the next throw of the dice will be the winner. In the end just not what we hoped or wished for, but what the addict couldn't (or wouldn't) control?

I agree with that.

But also each roll of the dice was a new managerial appointment with no consistency of playing styles. So new players were always needed to fit with the new style.

With a few steps skipped, look at the path from:

McClaren -> Pearson -> McClaren 

Martin pivotal under McClaren, loaned out under Pearson, fetched back in a farcical manner under Mac2.

How costly was that? Financially and playing wise.

[jono]

59 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Don't think you can compare Butters and Bradders on the pitch, Bradders was quite decent at times and would walk in to the current team....

Of course not .. I was simply thinking of the scale money spent, the reasons behind it and mixed in with our feelings towards both players at that moment. 

I am pretty certain that most of us were happy with both those signings on the day. The overwhelming thoughts being wow ! We were in trouble with the injuries and Mel opened his wallet without hesitation. I also think many of us recognised we had paid over book value, partly due to circumstance and partly because the sellers knew Mel was committed and had funds but we were happy to be on the train for the ride. 

[jono]

49 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

No proper plan being followed. Then deviations can also be calculated. 

Expensive chances taken, repeatedly. We kept thinking (a bit like a gambling addict) that the next throw of the dice will be the winner. In the end just not what we hoped or wished for, but what the addict couldn't (or wouldn't) control?

I think you have a point. It does make me wonder about Pearson and Clement. They had plans but their early execution of them was every bit as flawed as anything Mel did. 

[Red_ram]

I’m suffering from double hindsight, but hoping for treble though. Wasn't keen on manager Rooney at all, but on this forum somewhere there’s a post at the summit of our purple patch admitting I was wrong, that I was impressed with his adaptability (lol). In hindsight, that was also wrong, but for Derby’s sake hope I’m wrong again. Hindsight inception, if you will.

[LeedsCityRam]

On 30/05/2021 at 11:05, richinspain said:

Please, before saying how bad Mel's decisions have been can people just think how they actually felt when those decisions were made. Managerial appointments and sackings, player signings (both the player and the contract they were offered), CEO sackings.......... The only decision that really strikes me as being widely opposed to was the sale of the ground. And that was probably the only one that (because of the earlier decisions) was actually the right one.

A massive 94% were in agreement with Rooney's permanent appointment at the time. There isn't a thread on the forum now that doesn't allude to that being the cause of our current on pitch problems.

Opinions change. That's a right for everyone, but don't say that they haven't changed and that you always felt that way. Admit you were wrong. No one will call you out on it. You might even get a like for admitting it.

I see the logic of this view but it assumes that fans should look at the long term implications of decisions or that they should discount emotion, which is odd given that is why we care about the club & post on here. When the poll was put up, we were in a really good vein of form & there were some murmurings about players not wanting to join in the Jan window because Rooney's position wasnt permanent. I therefore get why people wanted clarity & voted with what seemed a sensible status quo. 

To go back to Mel, our expectation of him was that he would consider long term implications & remove emotion from his decision. He is in charge & unlike posters on here, has to live with the consequences of his decisions. Obviously thats complicated by him also being a fan but the blunt truth is he should have appointed a Director of Football/Sporting Director to make calls if he was incapable of making wise strategic calls (by that I mean a proper one, not Steve McClaren in an advisor capacity). This doesnt just apply to Rooney's appointment but also our signings from 2015-2020 & previous managers/inconsistency in appointments.

Incidentally I was one of the 7 that voted no...didn't comment on the thread as overwhelming majority were supportive & recall a couple of posters incredulous anyone would vote against Rooney's appointment. It was a tough argument to make but my feeling was (as now) that it was a lose lose appointment. Do well & he leaves quickly but he was more likely to do badly overall as he was so inexperienced i.e. no chance of a positive legacy & at best another Lampard exit creating a vacuum. Also thought it was silly making a permanent appointment with him never having experienced a poor run of form & come out of it. Of course the hindsight now suggests that was pretty foolish.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

The point of this thread is that it's easy to be a know all after the event. 

[IslandExile]

5 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

The point of this thread is that it's easy to be a know all after the event. 

It is but the point we are also making is that the "decision makers" should take more care over the 'due diligence' before making a decision/appointment/signing.

[Pearl Ram]

Thing is...what if you bought into Mel and Rooney in good faith, declared your allegiance accordingly then it actually turns out (in Mel’s case) the club wasn’t run quite as diligently and professionally as you’d hoped, expected, even, then in Rooney’s case it became evident changing formation for every opponent and chucking in the towel (unforgivable) before a ball was even kicked against Cardiff made you think twice...do you..

Think twice, go I was so wrong about that or keep schtuum in case the forum smart arses give it the old Captain Hindsight c rap ? 

Or do you think “duck ‘em, I’ve changed my mind and I’m going to post exactly how I’m thinking today”. Nothing to do with being wise after the event, more to do with evidence pointing to a bad initial choice and making you think and feel differently.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Pearl Ram

[Tyler Durden]

36 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

The point of this thread is that it's easy to be a know all after the event. 

Not really no. I would have expected more diligence from senior people at the club when making appointments, signing off crazy contracts and fees without anything to underpin them or not following due process when dismissing staff.

It's easier to be wise after the event but what precautions were put in place if the worse case scenario transpired? Seems answer is none in a lot of the above cases which is just plain irresponsible.